First CFL Grow Using 30 Watt CFLs

[donpaul.p]

thanks for the comments, the buds i pollenated clearly look different now to the other buds without pollen, the pistils have shrank so i think the seed production has started, at least im hoping anyways, i got a while to sort the name out,

when i harvested my other plants they was cloudy with a few amber trichs everywhere i looked, i let the nl x bb go a bit longer and the nl x bb i harvested and then put the bottom half back under the lights is going to go as far as i can take it, possibly 50-50 amber/cloudy trichs, that way i can sample the buds and see when i think its best to harvest next time.

my plants under the hps using glr are growing well now, i think what ill be doing from now on is starting all my plants under cfls, they seem to stay short under cfls and the nodes are very close together, then when it goes under the hps it dont stretch as much, but plants under hps from day 1 stretch like crazy and the space between the nodes can be anything up to 9 inches, as it is on one of my hempies, i have got clones from that same hempie growing that was started under cfls, this is now under the hps and im getting no stretch what so ever, so i think starting with cfls is where i go from here, at least till i get a mh bulb and give that a try, but the cfls are cheap and im only using 2 x 30watt 6500k cfls in my small room and i have had 8 plants under just 2 bulbs and i get no stretch what so ever and the plants seem to grow very well even though their is only 2 bulbs in their, i put my autos in their when the hps is off and they also do good under the cfls,
so cfls it is for the first few weeks of growth, the best part is it dont cost me much more to use the 2 cfls, so i can run the hps as well at very little extra cost, so when the hps is on i have my autos under it and my hempies and my next round of plants, then when the lights go off i take the autos and hempies out, the autos then go under cfl and the hempies go in a dark room till the hps comes back on in the morning, i have to take them 2 plants out as the hps is running glr so wont do my flowering plants any good

 

[miwa]

Sounds like a good plan..i don't know about that glr though..has anyone did a compare grow using glr ?..you're right about the cfls...they will keep the nodes spaced close...mine were so close i thought something was wrong with my plant...also MH bulbs are for veg and they will grow your plant much faster than HPS...but HPS is better than MH for flowering..i got to buy me a HPS or a duel spectrum..transporting plants into different rms is a bitch..i was bringing 6 in every night and my grow rm is upstairs ..then they all started flowering so now i just leave them outside..just got a e-mail..my ladybugs will be here tomorrow..now i can stop that spraying...stay focus...

 

[donpaul.p]

ladybugs are the way forward, just dont think id want hundreds of them in my flat, would drive my dog crazy,

the hps ive got is a dual spectrum 400watt hps, but even though its a dual spectrum and it says on the box that the bulb is suitable for veg and it keeps the node spacing small, but my plants grown under the dual spectrum hps stretch like crazy, but when i start them under the cfls using glr then put them under the hps using glr they seem to not stretch at all then, im thinking it could be due to the distant the plant is from the hps, with cfls the plants can be basically touching the bulbs, but with the dual spec hps the plants are around 1ft away, so im thinking this distance is making them stretch, so when i start them under cfls and then move them under the hps this somehow stops them stretching and they grow as normal like the plants i just harvested, but when i start the plants under the hps the stretch like crazy, both my hempies are around 4ft tall now and the plants i start under cfls finished and harvested at around 2ft so clearly their is something more going on here, i think from now on i wont bother buying dual spec bulbs, as i have a hps digital ballast this means that i can run both hps and mh bulbs in it, so ill get a mh for the glr stage and keep the dual spec bulb for the flower stage, and once the bulb needs replacing ill just get a normal hps thats not dual spec, as it seems you get more lumins from a standard hps bulb than you do from a dual spec bulb, so thats my future plans, but not changing anything just yet, the cfls seem to work perfect to start the plants under and somehow it stops the plants stretching when they go under the hps

 

[miwa]

You are right on..on both issues..distance from the light does make a difference ..and also ..i always check the Lumens..you can have two bulbs..same watts...different Lumens...that also holds true for cfls..i bought a lot of cfls before i found out i wasn't getting enough Lumens for my money...i was even burning 100 w cfls..and some 80 watt...you can burn four 100 watt cfls and won't even come close to the Lumens in a 400 watt MH and all 400 watt MHs don't have the same amount of Lumens...you really have to do research...

 

[CanuckGal]

You are right on..on both issues..distance from the light does make a difference ..and also ..i always check the Lumens..you can have two bulbs..same watts...different Lumens...that also holds true for cfls..i bought a lot of cfls before i found out i wasn't getting enough Lumens for my money...i was even burning 100 w cfls..and some 80 watt...you can burn four 100 watt cfls and won't even come close to the Lumens in a 400 watt MH and all 400 watt MHs don't have the same amount of Lumens...you really have to do research...

So how many CFLs do you need to match a 400 watt MH?

 

[Jimmycricket]

Well with the Lumens thats more for our eyes. The plants need PAR to grow, they dont care about the Lumens. However one could argue that lumens scale somewhat along with PAR, in many cases this is somewhat true. However there are exceptions to the rule where one bulb has a lower comparative lumen output then another of equal watts, but it blows the other bulb out of the water with its PAR rating.

Remember lumens are the light rays we can see. PAR is the light rays that plants can absorb.

 

[CanuckGal]

Well with the Lumens thats more for our eyes. The plants need PAR to grow, they dont care about the Lumens. However one could argue that lumens scale somewhat along with PAR, in many cases this is somewhat true. However there are exceptions to the rule where one bulb has a lower comparative lumen output then another of equal watts, but it blows the other bulb out of the water with its PAR rating.

Remember lumens are the light rays we can see. PAR is the light rays that plants can absorb.

That didn't answer my question

 

[GigaGrew]

So how many CFLs do you need to match a 400 watt MH?

what jimmey said.

however, unless you have money to burn and are really doing everything in your power to extract every last grain out of its genetic potential, i wouldnt even bother trying to match a 400 watts mh.

im using 4 30w cfls and a 30w t8 dual grolux and its more than enough. i have a clone that is less than 4 inches tall and it has 8 nodes, lol, i cant really use any of my other plants as examples as they have all been butchered in some way and spend a good deal of their life in shock, lol.

but im on a challenge at the moment to make a 256 (was 200 but the number works better) top plant and its ready for layer 3 (8 tops) the only delay at the moment is LACK of stretch that i need to top the plant and keep the tops for clones and that plant has only 2 30w above it.

edit: it was answered as best it can be.

what Mh, how much par does it put out, and its obviously from a single direction.

the simple answer is 400 w of cfl, but that depends on the individual bulbs PAR, and have to add in the fact that many small cfl's are much better at bathing the entire plant in light compared to a single bulb dangling above it.
the variables are too many to give a simple answer without some serious brand choosing and par comparison e.t.c

 

[miwa]

compare...105 watt CFL=6930 Lumens...400 watt MH=36,000 Lumens...4 of these CFLs would only =27,720 Lumens...as far as the PAR goes ..i didn't get that far in my research..i just switched to MH...maybe this will help...Inda-Gro Induction Lighting Sunlight in a box....if you really want to get technical...you can add to your Grow Meters a PAR Meter...cost=$150.00 up...

 

[donpaul.p]

my 400 watt dual spec hps is 55,000 lumins, but their are normal 400watt hps bulbs that put out over 60,000 lumins for the same watt, i think my lumins are lower due to it been a dual spectrum bulb, so im thinking about going with a mh for veg and hps for flower instead of using the dual spec.

the thing i find weird is this, when i start plants under the dual spec hps they stretch like crazy, but when i start them under the cfls for a week or 2 then put them under the hps they then dont stretch and nodes are close, for example my hempie is stretched like crazy and over 4ft tall, now the clones from the same plant that was under cfls for 2 weeks then put under the hps dont stretch at all, so not sure what to make of it, it seems that if the plants are started under the hps they stretch like crazy but a couple of weeks under cfls stops them stretching and they then grow as normal.

just uploading some pics of what i got going on

 

[grogreen]

hey don i need your help buddy, please check out my journal for details, its kind of an emergency

 

[GigaGrew]

so MH has a higher lumin output, but cfls can produce nice compact plants for a fraction of the energy....i say cfls all round beat any other bulb for what it gives over what it costs in carbon foot print e.t.c. at least for vegitation phase.

wanted to say more, but there is a lightning storm above my head right now, need to shut down the PC just in case.

 

[donpaul.p]

cfls work great at starting plants, they keep the stretch to next to nothing, i will always start my plants under cfls, at least till i get a mh bulb and can see if that stops the stretch, i actually think the problem is the distance from the light, my 2 cfls grow up to 8 plants, now i was told having not enough light will cause the plants to stretch, but clearly this is wrong due to the fact that im only using 2 x 30watt 6500k cfls in my small starter cupboard, so i think the actual problem is the distance from the hps that causes the stretch, the cfls can be pretty much touching the plants so i think this stops them stretching at all, but the hps is over 1ft away to keep temps down so i think this is where the problem comes from, maybe an air cooled hood would stop the stretch as the plant could go lower.

how ever that dont explain why the plants dont stretch when they have been started under the cfls and then under the hps, they dont stretch at all as long as they have been started under the cfls, if they are started under the hps then they stretch like crazy, but if i give them 2 weeks under cfls then they dont stretch at all when i put them under the hps to continue with the veg

 

[donpaul.p]

ill start with the plants i got left in flower, this picture below is the bottom half of the nl x bb that i harvested, im letting this go a lot longer so i can compare how i like it so this will be going till its a lot more amber

below is the smaller of the hempies, this is the afgan skunk

below is the reserva privada sour kush, this is the pregnant plant, you can now see how big it is

below is the 3 plants in the room i put them in when the hps goes off, this keeps these in flower as the hps is set to glr so i can veg my other plants at the same time, so i take them out the grow room and place them in this other cupboard to keep them in the dark, this can also be a grow room in the future, i have 5 of these floor to ceiling built in cupboards, some have heaters in them and others have vents

you can now see how big the tallest hempie is

next up we have my autos, this 1st big auto is the lowlife blueberry auto this is in flower but hoping it will get bigger while its in flower, some of the leaves look blue so im hoping the buds turn purple

below is the other auto, both these autos where planted at the same time, how ever this one is growing slower and more like a regular seed so hoping it gets bigger than the other, on the card it says its done in 50 to 60 days from sprouting out the soil

below is the california skunk haze regular, this is in veg under glr, it has not shown sex yet

below is an afgan skunk clone, this is the one in the big pot, the plant in the small pot on top of the big pot is an ak47 cross uk cherry cheese, im hoping this is also a fem but i do have another cheese in my small room

now this one below is an unknown, ill know when its in flower though, it is a clone and its either a special kush or a nl x bb, chances are its the nl x bb

below is a clone, but this is from the auto i harvested 3 times, this clone has not died its just got fatter and fatter, chances are its about done,
https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/PICT2491.JPG
below is 2 cuttings from the nl x bb, these where taken when i harvested it so these should be monster cropped,

below is 4 water clones, 2 from each hempie, 2 have rooted and got good roots and 2 have not

below we have an afgan skunk clone thats rooted and growing

right thats pretty much everything i have got, their are a couple more clones, i will be planting some seeds when ive harvested the hempies, just need to get my numbers down first then i can think about giving hydro and a scrog ago,

 

[spring2012]

Very impressive!! Thats why i watch your grows and listen to the advice!

 

[Smokemupm8]

ladybugs are the way forward, just dont think id want hundreds of them in my flat, would drive my dog crazy,

the hps ive got is a dual spectrum 400watt hps, but even though its a dual spectrum and it says on the box that the bulb is suitable for veg and it keeps the node spacing small, but my plants grown under the dual spectrum hps stretch like crazy, but when i start them under the cfls using glr then put them under the hps using glr they seem to not stretch at all then, im thinking it could be due to the distant the plant is from the hps, with cfls the plants can be basically touching the bulbs, but with the dual spec hps the plants are around 1ft away, so im thinking this distance is making them stretch, so when i start them under cfls and then move them under the hps this somehow stops them stretching and they grow as normal like the plants i just harvested, but when i start the plants under the hps the stretch like crazy, both my hempies are around 4ft tall now and the plants i start under cfls finished and harvested at around 2ft so clearly their is something more going on here, i think from now on i wont bother buying dual spec bulbs, as i have a hps digital ballast this means that i can run both hps and mh bulbs in it, so ill get a mh for the glr stage and keep the dual spec bulb for the flower stage, and once the bulb needs replacing ill just get a normal hps thats not dual spec, as it seems you get more lumins from a standard hps bulb than you do from a dual spec bulb, so thats my future plans, but not changing anything just yet, the cfls seem to work perfect to start the plants under and somehow it stops the plants stretching when they go under the hps

Ive had a discussion about the light spectrums of CFLS,T5's etc; and we concluded that maybe the MH may have more blue light as opposed to cfl's and also the DUAL-SPECTRUM globes. Sure they DO HAVE both spectrums but its a mix of both so it has some blue and some red. The difference being if you compared the MH's spectrum of blue on its own, it would be a stronger frequency of blue light say from A-Z vs the dual spectrum maybe H-Z for example - Thus missing out on spectrums A-G if it were measured this way.. And the HPS has a higher red spectrum vs the dual, so it would be kinda the same.. I almost purchased a Dual, cos my thinking well that is perfect as i only need 1 ballast and globe!! But until i looked into the range of the spectrums their lies the difference.. So ur increase of stretch when the HPS is on is totally normal and showing she s responding,soon after flowers will appear FUN TIME!!
I am really tempted to buy a T5 / Cfl setup as i have seen regular GREAT VEGGING USING THESE. Granted, some not so good! But - there has been enough good results to warrant me trying it for veg over my MH, and theyre so cheap - FARKIT!! IM A GETTIN ME ONE!! Will veg my next grow with them.. Then Slam my 600w hps onto it and see what it duz for me.. I am planning BUG THUNGS BRA..( New zealand accent Lol ).. Doing this LST has just been a magnificent learning experience and what ive seen growth wise has been fairly remarkable IMO..
She is 8 weeks and 4 days old.. Once she passed 1 month, she gained 2/3rd s size in 4.5 weeks.. Do you think this an ok growth for this time?? I COULD flip her now, and flower for 1 month and she would nearly be comparable with MOST HYDRO results IMO, being 3 month and 4 day from sprout til harvest. Not sure if id have a good yield, but i think id get a bit off her..
I really want her to have as much time in flower as possible til she hits near 10-15% amber trichs..
Well mate, have a good one and will chat soon. Smokem..

 

[TG40]

ill start with the plants i got left in flower, this picture below is the bottom half of the nl x bb that i harvested, im letting this go a lot longer so i can compare how i like it so this will be going till its a lot more amber

below is the smaller of the hempies, this is the afgan skunk

below is the reserva privada sour kush, this is the pregnant plant, you can now see how big it is

below is the 3 plants in the room i put them in when the hps goes off, this keeps these in flower as the hps is set to glr so i can veg my other plants at the same time, so i take them out the grow room and place them in this other cupboard to keep them in the dark, this can also be a grow room in the future, i have 5 of these floor to ceiling built in cupboards, some have heaters in them and others have vents

you can now see how big the tallest hempie is

next up we have my autos, this 1st big auto is the lowlife blueberry auto this is in flower but hoping it will get bigger while its in flower, some of the leaves look blue so im hoping the buds turn purple

below is the other auto, both these autos where planted at the same time, how ever this one is growing slower and more like a regular seed so hoping it gets bigger than the other, on the card it says its done in 50 to 60 days from sprouting out the soil

below is the california skunk haze regular, this is in veg under glr, it has not shown sex yet

below is an afgan skunk clone, this is the one in the big pot, the plant in the small pot on top of the big pot is an ak47 cross uk cherry cheese, im hoping this is also a fem but i do have another cheese in my small room

now this one below is an unknown, ill know when its in flower though, it is a clone and its either a special kush or a nl x bb, chances are its the nl x bb

below is a clone, but this is from the auto i harvested 3 times, this clone has not died its just got fatter and fatter, chances are its about done,
https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/PICT2491.JPG
below is 2 cuttings from the nl x bb, these where taken when i harvested it so these should be monster cropped,

below is 4 water clones, 2 from each hempie, 2 have rooted and got good roots and 2 have not

below we have an afgan skunk clone thats rooted and growing

right thats pretty much everything i have got, their are a couple more clones, i will be planting some seeds when ive harvested the hempies, just need to get my numbers down first then i can think about giving hydro and a scrog ago,

Hey DonPaul, You and Miwa got some cool shit going on! How are you doing your clones? Cloner or another method? The reason I ask is because I am planning on taking some clones off of two of the three plants I have in veg, and I want it to work the first time! I have a 30 site ezclone. I have read that you have to water the plants heavily for 3 days to leach out the nitrogen. How critical do you think this is? Also I wanted to use to lowest branches. My lowest branches have lik 10 nodes, maybe more, would it work to take one whole branch and cut it into ten clones? I saw a drawing explaining how to do this, I want this to work the first time! I want to flip these two plants to 12/12 right after I KNOW Im going to get some roots. any thoughts or advice would be great!

 

[miwa]

Now thats a idea..cut a whole branch...i'll be at your house if you do that..it should work... good

 

[donpaul.p]

thanks for all the kind comments, and thats some interesting info smokemupm8, clearly their is something in the light from the cfls and this stops them stretching, ill order a mh when i get some spare cash and give that a try and compare that to the cfls, the weird thing is that im only using 2 x 30watt 6500k cfls and i have had around 10 plants under these 2 cfls, and none stretched so the amount of light or lack of it dont make the plants stretch, i think it has more to do with the disrance from the light, when i started growing i was told i need to have loads of cfls else the plants would be lanky and stretch with little side growth, how ever i get the same results if im using 2 cfls or 15 cfls, they dont stretch even when i only have 2 cfls in my small grow cupboard, i have had all my clones on their and seedlings and both autos and none have stretched. so i think starting with cfls is the best option for me as i get no stretch, but when i start plants under the hps they stretch like crazy, i wont comment on the mh as i have not tried one yet but ill order one when i get some spare cash and give it a try.

now for my clones i have tried to different ways, the 1st method i used is placing the cuttings strait into a small pot of compost and i dip the cutting in rooting gel after cutting the end of the clone into 4 like an x shape then i drop a bit of rooting gel in the hole and place the cutting in the hole, i then cut the top off a 2ltr pop bottle and mist the cuttings and mist the inside of the pop bottle dome, i then place the pop bottle over the pot as its just the right size, then twice a day i spray the cuttings very lightly and spray the inside of the dome until its wet and water is running off it, i dont use nutes in the compost, i just mist every day and as long as the dome mists up with the lights then i leave them to it, the cuttings start to feel firm and the leaves feel really stiff but once its rooted between 7 and 14 days i then take the dome off and if they dont wilt in a few minutes then i know they can support themselves, if they wilt i put the dome back on and try again in few days, i get great results doing my clones that way.

the other method i am trying for the 2nd time is water clones, i take cuttings at a 45 degree angle and scrape the stem at the bottom with sharp knife, i then fill a jug with water and place the cuttings into it make sure the stem is 2 or more inches under the water, i dont use rooting hormones just water, the 1st time i tried this i failed but the tub was clear so light was getting to the stems, this time round im using a jug that is not clear and now i have got clones rooting, some take longer than others, the 1st set of clones off the bigger hempie had roots in 7 days, but its over 14 now and the smaller hempie cuttings are just starting to grow roots, plus now i have added 2 more cuttings into the jug so i have got 6 in their in total, the latest 2 are from a plant i harvested so the cuttings where taken when it was well in flower, this should give me monster cropped clones if they root. now with the water clone method i found the water level drops an inch or more each day, so i use a water spray bottle and spray the cuttings and i also turn the spay onto its jet setting then i spray directly into the water and it puts oxygen in the water so this keeps the water viable for the cuttings, when i see roots i added a very weak nute mix to the water in the jug and the roots grew like crazy once that was added, so this time round the water clones seem to be working but they seem to take longer, but its a good way to see how the clones are developing, i can see the roots so i know exactly when i can plant then and how long they take to root.

the reserva privada sour kush is producing seeds by the looks of it, the pistils have shrivled up on the buds i rubbed pollon on and the calyx is swelling if thats what each seed pod is called, im going to let the hempies go as long as i can just so i can see how the develop after its time to harvest, so ill be harvesting when they have plenty of amber trichs.

the nl x bb is finally dry and has gone in to kilner jars for a cure period, the dry weight was 37.5g, i want better results though. i think i should be able to dial it in better and get higher yields nect time round, once the plants i got going now are in flower ill be planting seeds for my hydro scrog and next round of flowering, im possibly thinking of setting up another grow room and using the dual spec hps for the regular plants and for the scrog im thinking of using the cfls as i can get these close to the screen without harming the plants and i should still be able to get a decent yield, ill be trying dwc set up and doing a 3ft by 3ft scrog, ill be using 2 plants so i wont need to veg as long as i would with one plant so thats my plans for my next round of plants after these, although im not 100% decided on using cfls for the scrog yet as i might use the hps.

after watching how teSmp gets on with his scrog and the results he got from one plant then i want to give it a try as the yield he got is more than i got from 4 plants grown in soil, im not even sure why im only getting a low yield, i should be getting more return than i am, maybe i need to veg longer, the plants i harvested where harvested at between 1ft and 2ft so they wasnt that big when i harvested them, so maybe i need to do a longer veg and that will give me more return.

the last hempie i did i lolly popped it, now i ended up with 1 big bud at over 20g dry, but this time round i left the hempies to grow as normal with no lolly pop method, all ready i can clearly see im going to get a bigger yield and id say even at this stage im looking at getting at least an oz off each, i got to admit they did have 1 week from seed under 24-0 under the cfls, then they went 12-12 from their under the dual spec hps, so clearly the extra 7 days of veg make a huge difference even though growth wise its not that much as the plants where only growing their 1st set of true leaves, so even giving them this 7 day start under 24-0 gives them a huge boost, so instead of it been a 8 week harvest from seed to finish it will be roughly a 9 week turn around, so ill see what i get when its time to harvest.

the lowlife auto blueberry is looking good now, the top set of fan leaves have turned blue, i cant see any blue or purple in the buds but i can clearly see blue in several of the leaves so im hoping this means im going to get some nice purple bud

 

[donpaul.p]

ive never heard of watering loads to remove nitrogen, i have never done this and ive took clones when the plant has been watered and ive took clones when it has not been watered for a few days and id say their is no difference what so ever.

i have grown clones that are 3 nodes and ive grown clones that are the tip of a branch that has no nodes just the leaves at the top and all grew, i have had more success with shorter cuttings, longer ones tend to wilt and take longer to root, so i tend to make mine smaller so they dont wilt, this seems to root quicker, but if i was going to give advice on taking cuttings then id make sure it has the top of the cutting where the leaves are then id make sure it has at least 1 node further down the stem but pull the leaves off these, some people make sure it has 3 nodes and the bottom node is used for putting rooting hormone on and then roots can grow at this part.

so when you take a cutting make the cut just below a node, so you now have 3 nodes above the cut but 1 node is only a few ml above the cut, then pull the leaves off the bottom node and the node above, the put the cutting in rooting gel and leave it in for 15 sec and no longer, making sure the cut is a 45degree cut and the bottom node is then in the gel as well and roots are likely to grow out the node, i have also used a sharp craft nife and cut an x into the bottom of the cutting so it open the stem up, i did this on one of the water clones taking from the same plant, i took 2 clones the one i cut the end so the stem flared open and the other i left as it was with just the 45 degree cut in it, both rooted at the same time so i dont think cutting an x in the end makes much of a difference, well it didnt with the clones i took.

i took clones from both my hempies and the one set of clones rooted after 9ish days but the clones from the smaller hempie have still not rooted and its been over 14 days now, i think i can see roots starting to grow, so i change the water in the jug every 7 days, i mist the top of the clones with water and then i spray water into the jug on jet setting and this forces air in and puts oxygen in the water, i never did this the last time i tried doing water clones and i had none root what so ever, so clearly moving the water and putting oxygen in makes a huge difference.

i have also built an air type clones, basically i got a plastic tub and poked 10 holes in the top, then in the bottom i fitted a long air stone and attached the pump, so the idea of this is to support the clones in the lid so that the bottom of the clones are a couple of ml above the water level, then when the air pump is turned on this bubbles the water and splashes it on the clones and this motion of moving water encourages the clones to grow roots so they can then reach the water, i think if you had the bottom of the stems in the water then they would take longer to root as the stem is able to draw up water when it likes, but by having the cuttings just out the water this then makes the cuttings want to reach the water so this is what encourages root growth, this is also meant to be a quicker way to get clones rooted, i have not tried it yet as i have not needed to take any clones, but i have set it up so i can use it next time i take a few clones then i can decide when i want to use for rooting clones, so ill let you all know how i get on with that when the time comes.

but until i got my water clones to root i only used rooting gel and compost in small pots with the top of the pop bottle over them, but now i managed to get the water clones rooted ive decided to give that method a go and see how well it works with the cuttings i got in their now.

the only thing i found is that the leaves on the cuttings tend to go hard and rubbery when they are in the water clone method and even in the soil with rooting hormone the leaves tend to go really hard and only sorts itself out once the cuttings have rooted