Glookie (V2) - Delps8 Does NASC/Barney's Farm Glookies In DWC Again

[Delps8]

Yeah I really like the humidifier!

I’m using a small forced air heater and it works great. I’m just concerned with the fire hazard….

Understood. The AC Infinity heater is a force air heater so there is a different risk level than the oil filled or panel heater. My take - everything has risk and using a forced air heater from AC Infinity is, probably, extremely low risk.

That’s a great idea on the RH pack. I have an order I need to place tonight, will add that to the cart!

Great - it's a lot more convenient than the salt method.

I have a few different thermometers, but not an insta read oddly enough, that might go in the cart tonight as well actually…

I use an instead because it's easy to calibrate and it comes ½°± from the manufacturer.

I will have to get those calibrated this weekend, but I don’t think either are off by much as the temp seems in line with the inkbird and the VivoSun little desktop temp/rh meter that’s in there. Same with RH but should still calibrate them to ensure my setup is correct.

I've used Pulse, Inkbird, Govee, AcuRite, and AC Infinity for temp and RH. Temperature is easy to set. RH can drive you nutso. The AC Infinity probe responds every second so you're getting real time. The others are much slower to respond but I compare the lights out data, where temp and RH will tend to be more stable, to the AC Infinity data. All in all, they seem to be as accurate as the manufacturer's say they are — 3%±.

 

[Delps8]

I suspect that it's the 7 year old monitor finally giving up the ghost. And the bad news is that you can't replace just the EC probe. :-( Right now, a new monitor is $420, quite a coincidence, don't think? I wonder if that price will change on 4/20?

It'll be lights on in about 40 minutes so I'll know if I need a new monitor RSN. If not, I might need a new plant!

Checked the probe in a beaker of nute water - 410/500 rock steady. Moved the probes around a bit and PPM been reading 410/500.

My theory is that they got sucked into the bubble stream that the air pump was creating and that threw the EC probe off.

I'll test that theory out.

I removed stems/foliage from the plant. The foliage I removed was directly over where I ran a USB fan for a while; just a few hours. One of the buds above the fan was tan in color and soft. Uh oh. If may have been bud rot, dunno, but that bud went out a few days ago. Other leaves in that area had tip burn. My theory is that the excess wind from the fan blowing in that area caused very high transpiration which burned the tips and the weakened state allowed botrytis to grow.

The "infected bud" and other stems that were tip burned went in the bin and I've put an oscillating fan above the light. There's a good amount of wind in the tent (up to 1.4 m/s), a hell of a lot of foliage has been cut away, and I've also raised VPD to 1.3. Between those three, I'm hoping to avoid any more bud rot issues.

 

[No Pain]

There's a slight discoloration in some of the leaves. It could be an issue but the flower light, with the heavy red spectrum, throws off color balance. I try to color correct but, as you can see from the red bands on the res top, sometimes I can't easily get things corrected. It is a bit of a pain in the ass, to be frank.

I am putting in a new res today. I've added back 25% of the res and PPM is 650/500± to 380/500 so it's time.

When I checked the tent last night, the PPM value in the monitor was fluctuating by 10 points every few seconds. 380, 370, 360 and then back up to 390 and 400. That was really strange. How can the EC actually fluctuate like that? Yikes!

I suspect that it's the 7 year old monitor finally giving up the ghost. And the bad news is that you can't replace just the EC probe. :-( Right now, a new monitor is $420, quite a coincidence, don't think? I wonder if that price will change on 4/20?

It'll be lights on in about 40 minutes so I'll know if I need a new monitor RSN. If not, I might need a new plant!

yea the led lamps to lighten the color of things if I clip a leaf in my room that looks normal green and take it out of the room is actually a darker green.

As far as the ppm range That can happen if the probe is in the bubble zone of the res other than that Its clean the end I know blue lab has a procedure for cleaning the sensors in it . I would check that out .

Note ...about the bubble zone . I should read all the posts before quoting and posting . lol

 

[No Pain]

Checked the probe in a beaker of nute water - 410/500 rock steady. Moved the probes around a bit and PPM been reading 410/500.

My theory is that they got sucked into the bubble stream that the air pump was creating and that threw the EC probe off.

I'll test that theory out.

I feel that you are correct in your theory as it was one of my thoughts when I posted on the post before this one.

I removed stems/foliage from the plant. The foliage I removed was directly over where I ran a USB fan for a while; just a few hours. One of the buds above the fan was tan in color and soft. Uh oh. If may have been bud rot, dunno, but that bud went out a few days ago. Other leaves in that area had tip burn. My theory is that the excess wind from the fan blowing in that area caused very high transpiration which burned the tips and the weakened state allowed botrytis to grow.

The "infected bud" and other stems that were tip burned went in the bin and I've put an oscillating fan above the light. There's a good amount of wind in the tent (up to 1.4 m/s), a hell of a lot of foliage has been cut away, and I've also raised VPD to 1.3. Between those three, I'm hoping to avoid any more bud rot issues.

If it develops again please post a pic ..Also if I remember correctly you use silica right? If not add some as it aids in preventing bug rot ..Heard that from Bugbee. On another not I have had trichomes develop so densely on flower that it gave the appearance of bud rot at first glance.

 

[Delps8]

I feel that you are correct in your theory as it was one of my thoughts when I posted on the post before this one.

It was stable at 410 and now 690 (new res) so I think the bubbles what sent things sideways.

You and your bloody air pump!

Once again, it was a very good idea. Check out the difference in the root ball between 2/15, which was day 45 and right at the end of veg, and the second photo, from today just 30 days later. My understanding is that root growth slows dramatically or even stops in flower since the "construction phase" is over when you flip. In contrast, I've guesstimate that the root ball has doubled in size. I can't attribute that to just the passage of time.

If it develops again please post a pic ..Also if I remember correctly you use silica right? If not add some as it aids in preventing bug rot ..Heard that from Bugbee.

Using silica, no question. I started using it when I first started growing (one grow in 2017) and kept using Silica Blast until I read how to DIY thanks to the wisdom that @farside05 has shared. I also drank the koolaid re. nute formulation thanks to this thread.

Bugbee? Oh, that guy! Yeh, he's pretty keen on it in his vids and he also talks about it in "Nutrient Management in Recirculating Hydroponic Culture"

On another not I have had trichomes develop so densely on flower that it gave the appearance of bud rot at first glance.

Hmm, good point. I can see how that could be confusing.

2/15/24

3/16/24 1

3/16/24 2

 

[Delps8]

yea the led lamps to lighten the color of things if I clip a leaf in my room that looks normal green and take it out of the room is actually a darker green.

As far as the ppm range That can happen if the probe is in the bubble zone of the res other than that Its clean the end I know blue lab has a procedure for cleaning the sensors in it . I would check that out .

Note ...about the bubble zone . I should read all the posts before quoting and posting . lol

And yet our eyes handle color changes instantly.

Re. cleaning the sensor - Good point. I clean the sensors when I calibrate. Bluelab devices flash an icon or a light to remind you to calibrate and, IIRC, I set it up so that I calibrate at the beginning of the month.

Their "growers toolkit" comes with a toothbrush and cleaning paste so it's easy to do. The EC pen calibrates fine; it's only 10PPM or so off at EC 2.77. The EC value on then monitor is always 70 points low at 2.77EC and it can't be calibrated. I just checked the new model and it's the same - you can swap the pH probe and calibrate the pH probe but not the EC probe.

[checks camera on shelf in garage]

Monitor is 690/500 and pH has already ticked up about ½ a unit. Good to see.

 

[CronicHempHog]

I got mold in my Spring 2023 grow so I will remove some of foliage to reduce the chances of mold. This is the first day of flower, so it's very early in the process. As she goes vertical, I'll get a better idea of what I need to remove but, overall, my approach leans towards "leave it alone".

I don't remove leaves "to expose bud sites" no do I go to "leaf tucking". I have done both in the past but I can't make the argument that either practice helps the plant and I would not be surprised if, in fact, they are both counter productive.

I'd love to see the results from research about it.

Re. res maintenance - I started at weekly changes but that stopped pretty quickly for the simple reason that it defied logic that my plants needed me to swap out 26 gallons of nutes for a 10 day old plant.

After reading a couple of papers on res maintenance and learning a little bit about nutrient levels, I decided to go with the approach of topping off with RO and then replacing when the res was becoming unstable or when the amount that I'd "topped off" was equal to the volume of the res.


I used rock wool for my grow in 2017 and then again in my first grow in 2021. After destroying a few sets of seeds in rock wool, I realize that it wasn't sufficiently idiot proof so I switched to the Super Sprouter and Rapid Rooters.

Re. water level - same here! I bought a SuperPonics tent kit back in 2017 and it came with a "how to use your tent" DVD. Part of the instructions for to set the water level to ½" below the net pot.

Do you leave it at the level through the course of a grow?

you talking about pm? if so using plant therapy once a week should help resolve your issue

 

[Wastei]

Just a heads up! This looks worrying to me and I think it might be the start of green mold? It's one of the places that often has stagnant water and it's pretty common for it to start at this place in DWC. I've had it more times than I like to admit.

I would check if they're mushy and brittle. I hope I'm wrong! All the best of luck! Cheers!

 

[Delps8]

you talking about pm? if so using plant therapy once a week should help resolve your issue

I'm it might have been bud rot/botrytis because the bud was discolored rather than the leaves. I appreciate the link. I'll check it out.

Heh, love the links in your signature. I'll check them out. I saw one grow from 2012. You must have seen some really interesting things over the years!

 

[No Pain]

It was stable at 410 and now 690 (new res) so I think the bubbles what sent things sideways.

You and your bloody air pump!

Once again, it was a very good idea. Check out the difference in the root ball between 2/15, which was day 45 and right at the end of veg, and the second photo, from today just 30 days later. My understanding is that root growth slows dramatically or even stops in flower since the "construction phase" is over when you flip. In contrast, I've guesstimate that the root ball has doubled in size. I can't attribute that to just the passage of time.

Oh yeah baby those are the roots that I like to see!! You are correct about root growth slowing and even halting at a point in flower. I'm guessing that you installed that air pump right on time. As @Wastei stated keep an eye on that spot . I'm guessing that was there prior to the new pump. Those roots are nice and you know what they say "the bigger the roots the bigger/more fruits!" . Remember I had no data on the aeration of solution and root size" lol . You might of just gave us all some .

Using silica, no question. I started using it when I first started growing (one grow in 2017) and kept using Silica Blast until I read how to DIY thanks to the wisdom that @farside05 has shared. I also drank the koolaid re. nute formulation thanks to this thread.

Bugbee? Oh, that guy! Yeh, he's pretty keen on it in his vids and he also talks about it in "Nutrient Management in Recirculating Hydroponic Culture"

awseome on the silica and on the Bugbee note yes he does and even in his papers .

Hmm, good point. I can see how that could be confusing.

yes sir .

Re. cleaning the sensor - Good point. I clean the sensors when I calibrate. Bluelab devices flash an icon or a light to remind you to calibrate and, IIRC, I set it up so that I calibrate at the beginning of the month.

Their "growers toolkit" comes with a toothbrush and cleaning paste so it's easy to do. The EC pen calibrates fine; it's only 10PPM or so off at EC 2.77. The EC value on then monitor is always 70 points low at 2.77EC and it can't be calibrated. I just checked the new model and it's the same - you can swap the pH probe and calibrate the pH probe but not the EC probe.

yes I have a blue lab guardian and the only lights that flash are for the ph. probe and its about every thirty days. As far as the ec/tds/ppm probe the only thing you can do to it is clean it as per their recommendations after its out you are correct. It would be time for a new meter. If you continue to get what you feel are errors, You could get a tds calibration solution as that's what I had for my tds meter way back in the day and that should give you an idea on your probe.

 

[Delps8]

Oh yeah baby those are the roots that I like to see!! You are correct about root growth slowing and even halting at a point in flower. I'm guessing that you installed that air pump right on time. As @Wastei stated keep an eye on that spot . I'm guessing that was there prior to the new pump. Those roots are nice and you know what they say "the bigger the roots the bigger/more fruits!" . Remember I had no data on the aeration of solution and root size" lol . You might of just gave us all some .

The new pump was one of many things that I changed. Regardless of the pump, I moved the air stones out from under the root ball. The reason that happened was because I put a few of them under the net pot when the plants were seedlings and never moved them into the proper position. It had nothing to do with the hardware - it was complete grower error.

The best info I've got on air pumps is companies that sell hydro gear. I checked Superponics (which is where I bought the res), PA Hydro, and AC Infinity and the pump that came with the res seems to be in the range of what the other companies are selling with their hydro gear.

Another factor, and I believe this is a much bigger issue, was having H2O2 in the humidifier. The plant has recovered but it's a tiny plant compared to my other grows and the area that is closest to the humidifier is much shorter than anywhere else on the plant and it have no buds sticking up. Again, grower error.

Between those two, this will be a poor crop but a poor crop is a lot better than no crop!

awseome on the silica and on the Bugbee note yes he does and even in his papers .

He sure seems to have opinions on a lot of this stuff, doesn't he?

yes sir .

yes I have a blue lab guardian and the only lights that flash are for the ph. probe and its about every thirty days. As far as the ec/tds/ppm probe the only thing you can do to it is clean it as per their recommendations after its out you are correct. It would be time for a new meter. If you continue to get what you feel are errors, You could get a tds calibration solution as that's what I had for my tds meter way back in the day and that should give you an idea on your probe.

No problems with the probe. 7 years and going strong (until it stops)!

 

[No Pain]

The new pump was one of many things that I changed. Regardless of the pump, I moved the air stones out from under the root ball. The reason that happened was because I put a few of them under the net pot when the plants were seedlings and never moved them into the proper position. It had nothing to do with the hardware - it was complete grower error.

The best info I've got on air pumps is companies that sell hydro gear. I checked Superponics (which is where I bought the res), PA Hydro, and AC Infinity and the pump that came with the res seems to be in the range of what the other companies are selling with their hydro gear.

Another factor, and I believe this is a much bigger issue, was having H2O2 in the humidifier. The plant has recovered but it's a tiny plant compared to my other grows and the area that is closest to the humidifier is much shorter than anywhere else on the plant and it have no buds sticking up. Again, grower error.

Its all a Journey and we all make mistakes I just found out one I was making today ..Im going to post it in my journal and it has to do with my kiss system and how I was handling my brand of nutrients. lol

The take away is you have your roots fixed and gained a little knowledge along the way just like me and my kiss system.

Between those two, this will be a poor crop but a poor crop is a lot better than no crop!

Its not over yet !! Poor or good or great grow is in the eye of the grower . I classify any grow that produces good flower a win !

He sure seems to have opinions on a lot of this stuff, doesn't he?

lol yes he does. It is his area and he is a scientist.

No problems with the probe. 7 years and going strong (until it stops)!

awesome news!!

 

[Delps8]

Getting there! I think I'm at the LTFA stage, the "leave it the fun alone" stage, that is.

In the graphic below, the only item that will change will be light levels but, once the plant's well into flower and growth stops, it's Miller time! My auto grows were like that, but I called them "Maytag repairman" grows. It was really frustrating to grow autos, which we know are so finicky and have shit yields, when they grew incredibly well and gave incredible yields.

And I switch to photos…well, things haven't turned out all that well but I have a good handle on the reasons so I'll stick with photos for at least one more grow.

So yeh, the plant is doing well.

As expected, pH dropped for a few days after swapping the res. It was just today that I've seen pH rise. Just 5.8 to 5.9. No rush to change it.

I upped VPD to 1.3 and everything's working well to keep it there. The Waykar is keeping the garage at <=40% which makes it easier to manage RH in the tent.

Rearranging the fans to get 2 m/s wind seems to have been a good idea. After setting up the fans, LST offset is went from -2 to -4.

Lotsa light! I decided to increase PPFD and I think I'm right at the light saturation point for this plant. Leaves across the canopy are horizontal and the color of the plants is excellent.

I've done a little plant training, LST and super cropping. As of yesterday, I removed the 1/4oz weights and you can just see them in the photos, two plant hangers.

The Growcraft generates a good amount of light but the design is dated and there's significant light fall off in the back left and back right. Adding the plant hangers gets them out of the 800's. The plants down the center are much shorter but they're getting the most light. Looking at the PPFD map, that's no surprise.

Chilled stopped making separate veg and flower lights. They redesigned their lights and the new products are white LED + far red. And they dropped the price. Maybe I could use that in a 4' x 4' tent?

As of 1136 today.

Everything looks really good. There's a great fragrance, colas are starting to stack, and they're getting frosty.

The plants in the foreground and center are at 1050-1080µmol.

I'll check the tent and see how things look. The only change I've made is to add the plant hangers and take the weight off the plant in the right side of this picture. That's getting them from 800's to 1050±.

Amazing - the leaves are perfectly flat. That's the tell, to me, that the light levels are optimal. My suspicions is that leaves pray because they're at the LSP. My thinking is that the plants angle the leaves so as to reduce the number of photons hitting the leaf surface. If that's the case, the leaves below could be just a few dozen µmol below when they'll pray.

The light readings above were taken 9 hours ago. I'll check them again around mid-day. It's a 330 watt drivers I'm running at 93%. No concern about running that % - this light is the same light they use for their 500 watt light. The lights run just under 100° average and the driver outside the tent has a fan on it so it's running at 84°. I use the internal driver in the morning (helps get the temps up). I'll aim a fan at that one, as well.

Been thinking about changes for the next grow. At the very least, I'll make a new res top. Why not? I'm Mr. DIY!

Nah, that's easy. A sheet of ply, cut some holes, surface prep, paint, and install. And I can make one for one or two plants.

With a hinge so I can lift a section in the front and check the res.

And something more permanent for checking water, as well as a cutout in the back left for water hoses and pH, another for the doser tube, and then one in the right rear for the Bluelab sensor leads.

And Hugh off the floor.

And maybe using a 100/120 qt cooler instead of this res.

And that all allows me to grow two plants so I'm not wasting 40% of my light. :-(

That's all great and wonderful but my main goal is to get this to the finish line.

 

[gwhunran]

At the very least, I'll make a new res top. Why not? I'm Mr. DIY!

Nah, that's easy. A sheet of ply, cut some holes, surface prep, paint, and install. And I can make one for one or two plants.

With a hinge so I can lift a section in the front and check the res.

You might try pvc sheet instead of plywood. It'll be impervious to water and reflects light pretty well. I use pvc top covers on my flood and drain trays. Never looked back.

 

[Delps8]

You might try pvc sheet instead of plywood. It'll be impervious to water and reflects light pretty well. I use pvc top covers on my flood and drain trays. Never looked back.

Thank you for the suggestion. That's something I'd never thought of. That would definitely save the time and material costs of painting the lid.

I contacted Superponics and asked about getting just the res top for this setup. It's the same res as I've got but they're using it as a reservoir vs a big bucket. The material in the res is strong but I'm concerned it might be brittle. A PVC top is a far better solution.

For the res top, I'd need about ⅔ of this sheet though I prefer the price tag on this. Is that the sheeting that you're using?

 

[gwhunran]

Thank you for the suggestion. That's something I'd never thought of. That would definitely save the time and material costs of painting the lid.

I contacted Superponics and asked about getting just the res top for this setup. It's the same res as I've got but they're using it as a reservoir vs a big bucket. The material in the res is strong but I'm concerned it might be brittle. A PVC top is a far better solution.

For the res top, I'd need about ⅔ of this sheet though I prefer the price tag on this. Is that the sheeting that you're using?

That sounds right. Good luck.

 

[Delps8]

That sounds right. Good luck.

Thank you and thank you for the suggestion!

 

[gwhunran]

Thank you and thank you for the suggestion!

Your welcome, the pvc has worked well for me and pretty easy to saw.

 

[Delps8]

Your welcome, the pvc has worked well for me and pretty easy to saw.

It looks like a 2' x 4' piece of ¼" + some hinges should do the trick. The hinges are for an access door across the front.

This will be one of the upgrades that I'll do to the tent over the summer.

 

[Delps8]

Day 36 of flower - about another month and then refurb the tent over the Summer for the grow starting in the September. I've already got the seeds and the H2O2 bottle is locked away…

Buds are starting to stack, the leaves are getting very sticky, and there's a strong funk in the garage. Water was good at about ¾ gallon.

I've had the doser in monitoring mode for a while, which allows me to see pH rise. Per the copy and paste from my journal, it dosed 1 CC of Up since yesterday afternoon. The res has been very stable, now that I'm past the goat rope of using Bloom nutes*.

For the past few weeks, I've been switching to my external driver in the afternoon, the goal being to keep temps <= 84°. That's worked pretty well but there's been one little hitch — the dimmer on the driver freaked out and set the driver to 100%.

Yeh, that sucked. I noticed it when I checked on the tent one evening and one of the buds was at 1230µmol. That was way out of whack and it took a couple of seconds to realize that the tent was really bright. I checked the wattage reading and it was 320. Huh?! I reset the dimmer and started taking readings when Bang! the light levels took of. Shit.

Fortunately, it takes just a few seconds to switch between the internal and external drivers but I was not too pleased since this is the second dimmer I've had fail. I submitted a warranty ticket but haven't heard back from them but at least I've got the driver in the tent that I can rely on. If the one in the tent fails, I can just raise the light and I've got a Mars SP 3000 that I bought back in 2021. Of course, I could use is as an excuse to go with the Spider G5000 which is my current favorite for a 2' x 4'. I would buy another Growcraft but they haven't gotten around to publishing their PPFD maps + their "We're not taking new orders because…" spiel is a warning sign to me. I know they laid off one customer service rep and my support request has not been answered in 5 days so Chilled is in the penalty box.

The light was maxed out for a few hours but the only damage I can see is that one cola fox tailed, the one in the right front of the tent. That's frustrating because that is a large cola but, as soon as I saw it, my mind flashed back to one grow in 2021 that fox tailed. They look very similar but here's to hoping I'm wrong about that. This little plant has been through enough; I don't need a smaller crop because of a low quality dimmer.

My light hasn't been my best buddy but between the humidifier, the Controller, and the heater, everything is coming up roses, so to speak. VPD has been at 1.3 for a while and that's where it's stayed for days on end. Having a heater that works with the controller has been a huge boon because I'm able to drop night time temps yet still maintain VPD.

Yesterday, overnight, and today. 82° to 76° overnight and VPD has ranged from 1.19 to 1.33.

The cola that I think will foxtail.

Pretty happy plant.

There are two Govee sensors in the tent. I added those because I want to understand how temp or RH might be different in different places in the tent. After a couple of days in those locations, Thing 1 and Thing 2 ("Cat in the Hat" right!) tell me that the temps are the same but the RH is a few % low on the left side. OK, so even with two fans blowing around in the tent, RH still varies.

So what's the use of that? Not much but that's just a trail run. It will be more interesting when I put those sensors in various places in the plant. I've read about "micro-climates" existing under a canopy and that's what bit me in the ass a year ago (bud rot). This plant is a lot more open than a year ago, thanks, in part, to my novel approach in using H2O2, so the numbers will be different but it's a start.


*Why picking on Bloom nutes? I have made a practice of using the same formula of Jack's 3-2-1. That's part of the KISS principle, right. Despite that, I decided to try Bloom nutes for this run "because…".

pH tends to rise when vegetation is being created and it tends to fall when flowers are being created. That's standard behavior in flowering plants. I've seen that pattern since I started growing and it's what the people who understand plant chemistry understand, too. What I wasn't expecting was just how much the K and the ammoniacal nitrogen would impact the res. Between those, that sucking sound came from the contents of my bottle of Down being "translocated" into the res.

The pisser is that, according to this page, hydro grows already have access to lots of phosphorus. In terms of the need for K in flower, cannabis plants need it so that seeds will have nutrients, according to Dr. B.

The bottom line - yet another instance of a well intentioned grower doing something that the grower thinks will benefit the plant yet, in reality, it is of no value to the plant whatsoever. Lesson learned.

On that cheery note….