Is a cure necessary if going directly to extracts?

[KingJohnC]

What is responsible for the grass scent that freshly harvested cannabis shares with lawn cuttings? And whether chlorophyll is responsible for the smell or not, isn't it one of the things eaten by bacteria during curing?

The scent we pick up we are hyper sensitive, grossly disproportionately to the smell and all day long everywhere in many many different forms. Human defence and protection adaptation has made humans very sensitive to a variety of compounds and human noses pick up on minute trace amounts either from predators, food source animals, dead flesh and decomposition or people covered with its scent.

The herb industry had done a great amount of research into preserving flavor and aroma of both fresh and dried herbs to extend shelf life and usable time period. If you have any green herbs in your cupboards very old the colour fades, and yes also oils flavonoids excetera that is the chlorophyll degrading.

Broccoli has more chlorophyll than cannabis, the deep green broccoli colour would indicate a nitrogen toxicity in a cannabis plant

No not bacteria. If bacteria were digesting anything it would become as spoiled fruit or vegetable with the mushy slimy exudate runoff from decomposition and be quite harmful to ingest the bacteria . This is why we have food handling safety regulations and inspection agency's to prevent food poisonings.

The actual scent of chlorophyll degrading is a light semi sweet sugar alcohol fume you would recognize from a active compost pile.

 

[Grandpa Tokin]

Science stuff! Yay! I love it!

 

[InTheShed]

The scent we pick up we are hyper sensitive, grossly disproportionately to the smell and all day long everywhere in many many different forms. Human defence and protection adaptation has made humans very sensitive to a variety of compounds and human noses pick up on minute trace amounts either from predators, food source animals, dead flesh and decomposition or people covered with its scent.

The herb industry had done a great amount of research into preserving flavor and aroma of both fresh and dried herbs to extend shelf life and usable time period. If you have any green herbs in your cupboards very old the colour fades, and yes also oils flavonoids excetera that is the chlorophyll degrading.

Broccoli has more chlorophyll than cannabis, the deep green broccoli colour would indicate a nitrogen toxicity in a cannabis plant

No not bacteria. If bacteria were digesting anything it would become as spoiled fruit or vegetable with the mushy slimy exudate runoff from decomposition and be quite harmful to ingest the bacteria . This is why we have food handling safety regulations and inspection agency's to prevent food poisonings.

The actual scent of chlorophyll degrading is a light semi sweet sugar alcohol fume you would recognize from a active compost pile.

All that said, what is responsible for the grass scent that freshly harvested cannabis shares with lawn cuttings?

 

[FelipeBlu]

So I guess the question is - what do you want to extract? Is it the THC for the effects, the terpenes for the aroma, flavor, and other possible benefits, or something else that any other parts of the plant except the trichomes can provide?

I guess my point is - if you want just THC and terpenes, drying and curing isn’t really necessary. Dry ice kief is the way.

 

[InTheShed]

No not bacteria. If bacteria were digesting anything it would become as spoiled fruit or vegetable with the mushy slimy exudate runoff from decomposition and be quite harmful to ingest the bacteria . This is why we have food handling safety regulations and inspection agency's to prevent food poisonings.

Also, this:
"After harvest, the plant begins to degrade as enzymes and aerobic bacteria break down excess sugars and starches. Curing cannabis essentially forces the plant to use up those sugars, starches, and excessive nutrients before they’ve had the chance to dry out and get stuck inside the plant." Source

and this:
"The curing buds require some air to assist the natural breakdown of sugars and chlorophyll." Source

And not all bacteria are harmful. We eat all sorts of good bacteria in cheese, yogurt, pickles, miso...

 

[InTheShed]

All that said, what is responsible for the grass scent that freshly harvested cannabis shares with lawn cuttings?

For anyone interested, I thought I'd Google it rather than wait for a reply:
"Chemically speaking, that classic lawn smell is an airborne mix of carbon-based compounds called green leaf volatiles, or GLVs. Plants often release these molecules when damaged by insects, infections or mechanical forces — like a lawn mower.

" 'Just about all fresh vegetables have some GLV bouquet to them,' [Ian] Baldwin told Live Science, and fruits may release the molecules as they soften and the membranes inside them break down. "Throughout evolutionary history, we've used that information to know when something is ripe," Baldwin said."
Source

 

[Grandpa Tokin]

I’m learning new stuff…

Ya bunch of geeks!

 

[Azimuth]

So I guess the question is - what do you want to extract? Is it the THC for the effects, the terpenes for the aroma, flavor, and other possible benefits, or something else that any other parts of the plant except the trichomes can provide?

I guess my point is - if you want just THC and terpenes, drying and curing isn’t really necessary. Dry ice kief is the way.

I'm trying to maximize the medicinal value of the plant, so not just the cannabinoids, but also the other things that might bring value.

 

[Azimuth]

Also, this:
"After harvest, the plant begins to degrade as enzymes and aerobic bacteria break down excess sugars and starches. Curing cannabis essentially forces the plant to use up those sugars, starches, and excessive nutrients before they’ve had the chance to dry out and get stuck inside the plant." Source

and this:
"The curing buds require some air to assist the natural breakdown of sugars and chlorophyll." Source

And not all bacteria are harmful. We eat all sorts of good bacteria in cheese, yogurt, pickles, miso...

But all those things are known to be true for the green material which I don't really care about, unless the "enzymes and aerobic bacteria" breaking down excess sugars and starches are also doing something similar to the, or in the, trichomes.

 

[StoneOtter]

What I know is that the smoke is better at 4 weeks of burping jars or bags than at 1 week. It can be pleasant enough but always better when it's been cured.

 

[Azimuth]

But better how? An easier, smoother smoke, which is green matter related, or stronger, more intense high, which would be more trichome related?

 

[StoneOtter]

But better how? An easier, smoother smoke, which is green matter related, or stronger, more intense high, which would be more trichome related?

More intense flavor, and if it's going to get smoother on the lungs/throat, that.

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

Seems easy to extract fresh dried and cured dried and see which you prefer. Unless, of course, you blow through your harvests before they cure like Nine Toed Hippie.

FTFY

NTH

 

[bluter]

when it comes right down to it you are either forced in to a raw feco extraction, or a method that calls for a dry / cure / decarb process.




just to throw a wrench into it, different cannabinoids decarb at different temps / time. by changing your decarb you can bring specific ones forward. to be the most effective, it needs to be done selectively, with strains that are high in the target cannabinoid.

rough guide

thca to thc - 240f for 40min
cbda to cbd - 240f for 90min
thc to cbn - 240f for 180min
cbga to cbg - 220f for 60min


there are other versions with varying times and temps.

 

[Azimuth]

More intense flavor, and if it's going to get smoother on the lungs/throat, that.

Ok, good. That's the green matter improvement which doesn't matter to me for my application. I was afraid you were going to say the effects were 10x more potent after a 6 month cure! Lol.

So far it seems like most of the improvements people find are in the smokability aspects, although some have commented about the potency effects somewhat as well.

I still have a few days before harvest to decide what I'm going to do.

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

when it comes right down to it you are either forced in to a raw feco extraction, or a method that calls for a dry / cure / decarb process.




just to throw a wrench into it, different cannabinoids decarb at different temps / time. by changing your decarb you can bring specific ones forward. to be the most effective, it needs to be done selectively, with strains that are high in the target cannabinoid.

rough guide

thca to thc - 240f for 40min
cbda to cbd - 240f for 90min
thc to cbn - 240f for 180min
cbga to cbg - 220f for 60min


there are other versions with varying times and temps.

Many thanks for that info.

NTH

 

[Azimuth]

when it comes right down to it you are either forced in to a raw feco extraction, or a method that calls for a dry / cure / decarb process.

just to throw a wrench into it, different cannabinoids decarb at different temps / time. by changing your decarb you can bring specific ones forward. to be the most effective, it needs to be done selectively, with strains that are high in the target cannabinoid.

rough guide

thca to thc - 240f for 40min
cbda to cbd - 240f for 90min
thc to cbn - 240f for 180min
cbga to cbg - 220f for 60min


there are other versions with varying times and temps.

Thanks, Bluter. That's good info right there.

 

[InTheShed]

I still have a few days before harvest to decide what I'm going to do.

What you're going to do is both, and then you can let us know what you've found!

Unless you're like NTH.

 

[Azimuth]

What you're going to do is both, and then you can let us know what you've found!

Unless you're like NTH.

Right. I'm actually thinking about doing four.

-bud wash and dry only
-bud wash and water cure
-bud wash and 2 week cure
-bud wash and normal cure

The challenge is that this round was a sexing and shakedown trial of my new setup so I won't have a lot of product to divide up. That might have to wait for the next round which I've got vegging now while awaiting promotion to the flower room.

 

[Grandpa Tokin]

I think you’re on the right track. I know for me it’s easy to just do what I’ve always done. It’s hard to change things up, but this subject has me wondering. Unfortunately, I don’t have the endless weed coming in like I used to (for now) so I’m somewhat constrained in how much I can waste to experiment with. Not really waste, but you know what I mean.

Please share what you end up doing.