Learning training

[Justman]

Good day, everyone!
As I have started my first grow and first journal, I do have got disturbing questions about my babies.
Like all first-timers I am really confussed about training benefits-
- should I train it (done, if increasing yiels)
- what type of training should I do (LST or Cropping/femm etc.), why there are so many, which is for what solution/purpoise?
I see that it depends on a strain, but is there at least some key factors where can I choose proper training.

And maybe I should mention that I just set up my bloom cabinet, and it's pretty hot in erre'
I added 12cm fans for each exhale and intake and if I hang my HPS to the top (160cm), then at around 110cm from ground I get ~30c temp. This is not my final ventilation solution, will add coulpe inside tent and swap those 12's to more powerfull.

Theoretically, if pot is 35cm high, and I can let them till 120cm from ground, that leaves 85cm grow space.
Soooo, my big question is, should I even bother training them, and which one better to use in my dimentions?

Best wishes

 

[Justman]

One more thing- as my vegging cab is PC case I have limited vegging space/time.
With current growing rate I think I will put these in my bloom tent in about 1-2 week, so they will be pretty small when they'll hit 12/12. Just so many factors which concerns me
-should I do some FIM/Topping etc. just before 12/12, will they get enough time to get back on schedule
-if I just LST them, will they get enough time to get back on schedule

 

[arteekay]

Hey Justman.

The link to your grow setup appears to be broken. Correct link is Big Bud XXL Versus Cookie Kush, somehow 264515 became 264516 in your link.

3 feet isn't a huge amount of space and training can definitely increase yield. There is no right answer to any of your questions unfortunately, each plant is different even within strains and even clones.

The only way you'll be able to determine which methods work with your setup, genetics, talent and luck is to experiment. Research, assess, decide and have at it.

 

[arteekay]

One more thing- as my vegging cab is PC case I have limited vegging space/time.
With current growing rate I think I will put these in my bloom tent in about 1-2 week, so they will be pretty small when they'll hit 12/12. Just so many factors which concerns me
-should I do some FIM/Topping etc. just before 12/12, will they get enough time to get back on schedule
-if I just LST them, will they get enough time to get back on schedule

Are these autoflowers? I'm not sure why you're committed to moving them to bloom unless they are. If they are autoflowers, you don't need to go 12/12 for them. If they aren't autoflowers, you should keep them in your veg setup until they get to be the size you want to flower at. Keep in mind the plant will stretch up to three times it's size during early flowering. More common seems to be about double.

Also, consider adding a link to your grow journal to your signature, so the wonderful denizens of 420mag can easily find it. Instructions are here.

 

[Justman]

Arteekay, thanks man, I'll fix the link.

Well, I would love to vegg them for 4-5 weeks, but unfortunatly I have 250W HPS in my big tent, and for electricity savings I use it only for 12/12. I have difficult situation with my neighboars, so I can't attract unwanted attention
Maybe you can suggest me best training method so I can vegg at least one of them for longer than that. I was thinking about LST, but maybe I should TOP it, so she would go in weight?

 

[arteekay]

So they aren't autoflowers, which means you can do whatever you want with them pretty much and they have time to recover.

What you do depends largely on your comfort level and risk/reward analysis. We originally weren't going to do any training, but since we ended up popping 6 seeds we later decided to do some LST on the youngest two. Ours are autoflower, so the common advice is Low Stress Training (LST) only as they only have a short period of time to veg before they automatically flower. With a photoperiod you have more leeway.

LST is possible to undo, High Stress Training (HST) is doing actual damage to the plant, by cutting with topping and fimming, or bending/breaking with supercropping. These are obviously unrecoverable training techniques, once it's done it's done.

With a smaller setup and limited options, I'd say training is pretty much required. That said, if you need these plants to absolutely produce at least something, leave them entirely alone.

 

[Justman]

Guess ur right, I'll just let them grow as big as possible in PC, then transplant one of them to Bloom tent, and try to LST and veg for as long as possible in PC Box. Curious to see results!

 

[arteekay]

As am I, I'll be following your grow journal.

Hopefully a more experienced grower will chime in with anything I have missed.

 

[Emilya Green]

training requires time... you can't expect big results if you don't allow recovery time after a topping, or time for the lower growth to rise to the top with LST. Regarding electricity costs in veg.... you might want to investigate the 12-1 lighting pattern, it really does work, and it shaves about 30% off of the electricity bill.

I top/pinch my plants for 2 reasons... primarily for more buds. I am not going to spent all this money on nutrients and electricity for 4 months, for just one top... that would be silly. Second, I do it to slow down vertical growth in veg and make for more manageable plants in flower. I top aggressively, and usually end up with plants no taller than 18" going into the bloom tent, and typically have 18 or more buds.

 

[Justman]

Yeah, I guess I should stick to not touching 'em, see how it works out.
I'll just stick to my PC veg box, just gonna veg them as long as I can, try some mild LST if any stem or leaf would be in danger of getting burned and then swich to bloom tent. I have very specific flat, so I don't wanna any additional devices or parts, need to stick only for limited opportunities at the moment!

 

[Justman]

For further orders can any experienced sog/scrog grower could suggest some good and reliable strains?

 

[MRXC]

I really liked the Everest bud of green label seeds. Provided me with a nice even filled screen. I used 6 plants in 11 liter pots in a space of 80x90 cm and 150 high

 

[Weaselcracker]

Plants grown from seed cannot start flowering until they're mature enough which is usually at about 4 to 6 weeks old. Putting them in to 12/12 early will keep them a bit smaller though, as they are getting less light. They still won't start flowering till they reach maturity.

If you're growing clones though, then you can flower them at any size, as they're just cuttings off of mature plants.

The point of training is to form the plant into a shape you want. With indoor grown cannabis it's almost always for the purpose of catching the maximum amount of light. Grow lights are very weak compared to the sun, don't have much power to reach distant foliage, and don't penetrate very far into the plant's canopy. So plants are trained to provide the maximum amount of plant top exposed to the light, usually on a flat plane or sometimes a bowl shape.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Mmm grown from seed ah, well stretch is normally double the height of the vegged plant & may triple depending on dominate genetics.

Clones may lack vigor which may grow slower & don't stretch as much when in flower most of the time.

Topping all limbs can reduce stretch over all but you need suitable regen growth of a few inches or more before flowering.

Just my observations at the end of day & over time once ya start to play around you may notice some of this...



LST, it is real simple to do either with string or small canes etc to spread plant canopy to improve light conditions, mainly so in flowering as it can help bulk out yield a bit.

Scrog is another very good method & i'm pretty sure ya can double yield if not more than compared to a bush plant grow ! just need a grid / mesh with holes in average of couple inch in size took 'n' train away in till 70% full before flowering... ya need to do some leaf trimming in flower tho.

Topping of each branch to form two new ones plus regen growth of a few inches or more can increase yield but may draw out a longer veg time, but could look at flux method tho it is an interesting style.

Clones can be trained any method you so wish just need suitable veg timing but can be pretty good for a sog method.



Have a look around & see what ya feel happy with lots of info on lst, scrog, flux don't see so much of sog these days as it requires a lot of plants per 1 m2 & more likely over the legal limit for most states or countries.

 

[Walrus]

Like you I don't have much experience and this is my first time with lst just with screws put into the sides of the pots and it's pretty simple and been painless really.

I can't comment on the yield yet as I'm only just flowering but I have 4 plants with pretty even tops and maybe 70-80 tops in total between the plants.

It's all a learning curve for me and part of the enjoyment, I also fimmed for the first time and got between 2 and 5 tops on a branch from that but they are too crammed together, for my liking,and I topped some which is my preference I think.

I figured I would experiment and learn and still hopefully get some decent green! My main drivers for it were only having 1.6m in height but with fan and filter plus pots too it's less and reading that a more even canopy would result in a better overall bud yield and utilization of my light and ultimately electricity bill and more even quality of bud.

I'm excited to see how it's going to turn out.