Most Dense Strains?

[Cornercat]

What is it about COBs that you think makes buds denser? The intensity? heat output? spectrum?

Dialing in density boosters is great but I'm more interested in what causes a strain to be genetically more dense. My hibernate plant was so short in a tent of 4 other strains, the LED had to be much higher than normal to accommodate for the taller plants. Thus, Hibernate had the least DLI out of all the strains and still the most density. That's intriguing. It means light is by far a secondary factor to genetics. Or that too much light can decrease density.

 

[Moto258]

What is it about COBs that you think makes buds denser? The intensity? heat output? spectrum?

Dialing in density boosters is great but I'm more interested in what causes a strain to be genetically more dense. My hibernate plant was so short in a tent of 4 other strains, the LED had to be much higher than normal to accommodate for the taller plants. Thus, Hibernate had the least DLI out of all the strains and still the most density. That's intriguing. It means light is by far a secondary factor to genetics. Or that too much light can decrease density.

I don’t wana butt in but I’m also very intrigued on this subject. I’ve been doing a lot of studies into the ppfd in the led lights I currently run, and when people say hanging your lights a certain distance from the tops of the plants they always leave out that data you need to have in order to even know the distance to hang them from. But what I’m trying to get at is I’m currently doing some testing to learn density as well because I’ve noticed in cerain runs my buds have been getting more dense as I dial in my ppfd of the lights as they age into the flower stage! But cob lights I have not ever used so I can’t comment much about them but if you have the right spectrum of light and know how to hang them at the correct height knowing your ppfd during your entire grow and can dial that in as they stretch then I in my honest opinion can make any strain dense! But I could be wrong on that comment as well being that I have not grown all genetics that are on this earth to know that forsure lmao!!! So pretty much what I’m trying to say is I’m thinking the height, spectrum, and ppfd as well as your nutrients all play a roll in your final outcome. If you can learn to apply each in your grow and dial that in I think that’s what’s making buds so dence and fruitful. But I’m still learning all of this as I go so I don’t wana sound like a I know everything because I can’t say that I do!!

 

[HigherTheHigh]

The worst part about growing mega tight buds is the slightest bit of moisture just rights them off instantly, my buds are that tight I hate it because I'm also the king of bud rot lol.

Grew 100% sativa Amnesia and that too was really dense while still having the characteristics so I too think it's basically what you're conditions are like to how dense you can get them.

Environment and lights is all you need, Coco if you want yield and soil if you want taste has always seemed to be the setups to me, Nutrients have done nothing from my grows apart from keep the plants alive, I've ran multiple organic Coco plants using basic nutes and my buds are always the same outcome, even with a cfl setup I got tight buds because my environment was perfect (back then) lol.

I haven't read the full replies off everyone as my nets on a go slow today so I do apologise if I've said something someone else has.

 

[Cornercat]

I don’t wana butt in but I’m also very intrigued on this subject. I’ve been doing a lot of studies into the ppfd in the led lights I currently run, and when people say hanging your lights a certain distance from the tops of the plants they always leave out that data you need to have in order to even know the distance to hang them from. But what I’m trying to get at is I’m currently doing some testing to learn density as well because I’ve noticed in cerain runs my buds have been getting more dense as I dial in my ppfd of the lights as they age into the flower stage!

Thank you for saying that, I completely agree. They do purposely leave out or misstate the data to sell more lights. I'd love to know more about your PPFD studies. I'll link you to an old thread where I was heavily researching that.

PPFD Graphs and Analysis

Hello, this will be a continuation of my last thread, where I hand-measured and plotted the PPFD of Amare and Mars LED's with a hydrofarm PAR meter. Since then, I've also measured the Mars Reflector 192, Philips CMH 315w, etc. The point of this research is to determine the optimal footprint and...

www.420magazine.com

High PPFD is definitely a factor in maximizing their genetic potential and density. As well as co2 in my opinion. I'm not 100% sure if co2 just makes plants mature faster or if their maturity is genetically paced and the co2 makes them yield more in the same amount of time. I think it's a little of both, and for that reason I think high co2 is a also a density factor.

I haven't gotten around to studying nutrients yet but I bet there are some tricks there too. I want to learn more about the high-brix techniques which use targeted nutrients and foliar feeds during the early weeks of flowering to really kick them into gear. The right levels of hormones and nutrients can make a clone explode with 50x more roots than a regular tap water clone. Besides basic nutrients, I think a special foliar feed at the right time might cause a pistil explosion that would yield extra density.

And I think we already mentioned organic soils and microbes playing a possible role - maybe not directly to density but general vigor.

Another thing that might be obvious is the plant's stem diameter. Super thicc stems is probably a good sign of thiq buds. A larger nutrient pipe for all those bud sinks. What's less obvious is whether the ratio of stem diameter to amount of bud sites is important. Like lollipopping for example. Does removing all the lower popcorn buds and side branches actually increase cola density by redirecting higher ratios of nutrients to fewer bud sites? Probably so. My Hibernate plant had 0 lateral branches for some reason. I topped it early and the six nodes it had were the six colas it produced. Six super dense colas tho.

 

[Moto258]

Thank you for saying that, I completely agree. They do purposely leave out or misstate the data to sell more lights. I'd love to know more about your PPFD studies. I'll link you to an old thread where I was heavily researching that.

PPFD Graphs and Analysis

Hello, this will be a continuation of my last thread, where I hand-measured and plotted the PPFD of Amare and Mars LED's with a hydrofarm PAR meter. Since then, I've also measured the Mars Reflector 192, Philips CMH 315w, etc. The point of this research is to determine the optimal footprint and...

www.420magazine.com

High PPFD is definitely a factor in maximizing their genetic potential and density. As well as co2 in my opinion. I'm not 100% sure if co2 just makes plants mature faster or if their maturity is genetically paced and the co2 makes them yield more in the same amount of time. I think it's a little of both, and for that reason I think high co2 is a also a density factor.

I haven't gotten around to studying nutrients yet but I bet there are some tricks there too. I want to learn more about the high-brix techniques which use targeted nutrients and foliar feeds during the early weeks of flowering to really kick them into gear. The right levels of hormones and nutrients can make a clone explode with 50x more roots than a regular tap water clone. Besides basic nutrients, I think a special foliar feed at the right time might cause a pistil explosion that would yield extra density.

And I think we already mentioned organic soils and microbes playing a possible role - maybe not directly to density but general vigor.

I totally agree with you on how they go about advertising something in order to sell something that try’s to mimic the real lights that actually are worth investing into. Especially for long time growers that plan to stick with it like me and yourself. It makes sense to look deep into what the light actually does in the field before deciding a light choice!! So many new growers I try to mentor try telling me dude you bought a light that looks the same as what I bought just half the price! And I’m always like yeah I pay for quality and the science that backs the light up and I’ll trust the scientific truth over some new company that’s trying to push their lights out in the market to mimic the real competition. We all might be guinea pigs in this industry but I certainly won’t be a guinea pig for company’s that aren’t either sponcering my grows or pushing something to turn a profit so that one day they can put the extra time and money into the actual scientific results that matter!! Lol I can go on and on haha!
But thank you for sending me this I’m going to read up on this tread to learn a bit more. I’m not very tech savvy and can’t figure out how to send you the link to this YouTube video so I’ll point you in the direction in who I’ve been learning a bit from and vice verse we both can learn from each other. I’ll keep you posted on the data my leds are putting out. I might have to just start a new tread in my signature because that seems to be the only way I know how to point someone in the same direction and learning path that I’m currently on! But on you tube if you type in (par,ppf,ppfd, and pfd explained) then it will bring you to this very intelligent guy that explains it all. You might have seen him before but I certainly agree with most if not all the knowledge this guy talks!!!

 

[Moto258]

I totally agree with you on how they go about advertising something in order to sell something that try’s to mimic the real lights that actually are worth investing into. Especially for long time growers that plan to stick with it like me and yourself. It makes sense to look deep into what the light actually does in the field before deciding a light choice!! So many new growers I try to mentor try telling me dude you bought a light that looks the same as what I bought just half the price! And I’m always like yeah I pay for quality and the science that backs the light up and I’ll trust the scientific truth over some new company that’s trying to push their lights out in the market to mimic the real competition. We all might be guinea pigs in this industry but I certainly won’t be a guinea pig for company’s that aren’t either sponcering my grows or pushing something to turn a profit so that one day they can put the extra time and money into the actual scientific results that matter!! Lol I can go on and on haha!
But thank you for sending me this I’m going to read up on this tread to learn a bit more. I’m not very tech savvy and can’t figure out how to send you the link to this YouTube video so I’ll point you in the direction in who I’ve been learning a bit from and vice verse we both can learn from each other. I’ll keep you posted on the data my leds are putting out. I might have to just start a new tread in my signature because that seems to be the only way I know how to point someone in the same direction and learning path that I’m currently on! But on you tube if you type in (par,ppf,ppfd, and pfd explained) then it will bring you to this very intelligent guy that explains it all. You might have seen him before but I certainly agree with most if not all the knowledge this guy talks!!!

I forgot to mention about co2 playing a roll!! I’m sure that it plays a major roll in the life of a vigorous healthy plant. I on the other hand have not used any co2 in my grows but would love to see what reaction I can get with co2 in my environment once I’ve completely dialed in my set ups. I guess I spend enough time with my precious ladies that co2 doesn’t need to be added lmao!!

 

[Cornercat]

I forgot to mention about co2 playing a roll!! I’m sure that it plays a major roll in the life of a vigorous healthy plant. I on the other hand have not used any co2 in my grows but would love to see what reaction I can get with co2 in my environment once I’ve completely dialed in my set ups. I guess I spend enough time with my precious ladies that co2 doesn’t need to be added lmao!!

Once you get all dialed in, co2 is a massive bonus. I'm still not a perfect or even expert grower but I still think co2 was the biggest boost out of anything I've adjusted. Took me a year to dismantle the room and rebuild it from head to toe though. Now I know with 100% certainty that it's 100% sealed, and I have a bunch of new renovation skills and tools.

 

[Diatomacious]

Just about every characteristic in marijuana is tied to the genetics... some genetics are denser bud while some genetics are more potent smoke, some genetics even produce monster amounts of resin which can cover the bud. Though, as was mentioned in an earlier post, fertilizer, amount of light, and amount of water and fresh air as well as temperature can all affect the outcome of your grow... though I still feel you will never beat a good genetic breed with ditch-weed genetics when grown to their full potential (it's just no comparison).

 

[Moto258]

I forgot to mention about co2 playing a roll!! I’m sure that it plays a major roll in the life of a vigorous healthy plant. I on the other hand have not used any co2 in my grows but would love to see what reaction I can get with co2 in my environment once I’ve completely dialed in my set ups. I guess I spend enough time with my precious ladies that co2 doesn’t need to be added lmao!!

Once you get all dialed in, co2 is a massive bonus. I'm still not a perfect or even expert grower but I still think co2 was the biggest boost out of anything I've adjusted. Took me a year to dismantle the room and rebuild it from head to toe though. Now I know with 100% certainty that it's 100% sealed, and I have a bunch of new renovation skills and tools.

I’m definitely going to be asking a bunch of questions when it comes time to add co2 to the garden that’s forsure!! I’m basically doing a complete renovation as well at the moment on the main flower room since it’s getting time to update the lights. Lights this year are looking more promising than lasts already!!! Lol I’m thinking about just doing a diy light set up instead of buying anyone’s name brand for the new and improved room now after watching these company’s grow over night the way they did!