Opinion request: topping photoperiods

[TwitchVee]

I'm starting some Jawa Pie and I was just wondering if you guys had any opinions on whether topping photoperiods has any negative impact on potency? I know it's really meant to spreaad out the canopy and improve yields aand density, but the truth is i've never had any issues with yield or density and my potency has been poor. I've pretty much narrowed that down to genetics, i'm not buying 420 junk again. But I wonder if topping plants to increase yield actually makes buds less potent by spreading out resources?

 

[Bill284]

I'm starting some Jawa Pie and I was just wondering if you guys had any opinions on whether topping photoperiods has any negative impact on potency? I know it's really meant to spreaad out the canopy and improve yields aand density, but the truth is i've never had any issues with yield or density and my potency has been poor. I've pretty much narrowed that down to genetics, i'm not buying 420 junk again. But I wonder if topping plants to increase yield actually makes buds less potent by spreading out resources?

Hey @TwitchVee hope you are well my friend.
Topping won't effect potency.
Your light and environment are more likely contributing factors aswell as genetics.
What are you using for light and nutrition?

Stay safe
Bill

 

[nivek]

Top away please. Topping increases yield, or can increase yield.

And will not affect potency as,Bill stated

 

[Sparkey224]

I love topping, really brings up secondary branching.
I like to strip them around week 3 in flower, just my clones not seed plants.
Shoulder getting old to trim larf..lol.

 

[TwitchVee]

Thanks, guys. My equipment is top notch. It was the same genetics all three runs, so they were just F'd junk. Don't run 420 gear, lesson learned. Answered my question.

 

[TwitchVee]

Hey @TwitchVee hope you are well my friend.
Topping won't effect potency.
Your light and environment are more likely contributing factors aswell as genetics.
What are you using for light and nutrition?

Stay safe
Bill

light is an SF-7000 1000watt and I fed the 1st run with FF trio, second run I did Humboldt's line aand 3rd run I used AN line. All to schedule as usual. All plants looks and turned out fantastic, besides the potency. 17 plants total.

 

[Sparkey224]

light is an SF-7000 1000watt and I fed the 1st run with FF trio, second run I did Humboldt's line aand 3rd run I used AN line. All to schedule as usual. All plants looks and turned out fantastic, besides the potency. 17 plants total.

Yeah man, think genetics were the issue. Imo genetics are 95%, then grow environment, nutrients, etc.
Alot of great seeds to select from the sponsors here. I just go thru packs and pick out the bettern phenos and clone them.
Good luck

 

[Dwight Monk]

Like everyone said genetics/lights/environment are the biggest factors affecting potency, well other than not harvesting too early but that part of the learning curve when first starting like everything else.

 

[TwitchVee]

Like everyone said genetics/lights/environment are the biggest factors affecting potency, well other than not harvesting too early but that part of the learning curve when first starting like everything else.

Yeah i'm aa couple decades from first staarting lol

 

[TwitchVee]

I love topping, really brings up secondary branching.
I like to strip them around week 3 in flower, just my clones not seed plants.
Shoulder getting old to trim larf..lol.

TRIM! yes. My hands are all screwed up and i've been considering one of those stainless tables with the fan blades in it. What do you think? for a few hundred bucks? Cause I can break down about half a plant in 4-5 minutes by hand, but then my hand seizes up and won't work right. Boxer fractures

 

[Dwight Monk]

Yeah i'm aa couple decades from first staarting lol

Well we can rule that one out then, unless ya really really stubborn and stuck in your ways

 

[Sparkey224]

Yes, i thought about it. It makes sense but still a little skeptical of them.
I like running strains less leaf to bud ratio, trellis ,lollipop 1 time before flower and strip around week 3.
It makes trimming alot better.
1 time topping, 1time lollipop, 1 strip and i dont mess with them after that.
Sorry for the ramble..lol

 

[Emilya Green]

It is my opinion that multiple topping, past maybe 2 chops, does affect overall potency... but so slightly that most of us would never notice. Most plants after multiple chops, may have a lot of buds, but only 3 of those buds typically will become primary... the rest of the buds remain secondary buds and of slightly lesser quality. My opinion these days is top no more than twice to keep quality up and to increase your plant count if you need more yield.

 

[TwitchVee]

It is my opinion that multiple topping, past maybe 2 chops, does affect overall potency... but so slightly that most of us would never notice. Most plants after multiple chops, may have a lot of buds, but only 3 of those buds typically will become primary... the rest of the buds remain secondary buds and of slightly lesser quality. My opinion these days is top no more than twice to keep quality up and to increase your plant count if you need more yield.

Thanks, I did top of section multiple times. That's something to consider. I've never had this issue before running 420 and my tolerance is ridiculous so i'm pretty positive on that part of it. I'm not one of these wanna-be badasses here, but I know better than 17 plants coming out like they did on three different regimens. Guess i'm not accustomed to weak results...

 

[TwitchVee]

Yes, i thought about it. It makes sense but still a little skeptical of them.
I like running strains less leaf to bud ratio, trellis ,lollipop 1 time before flower and strip around week 3.
It makes trimming alot better.
1 time topping, 1time lollipop, 1 strip and i dont mess with them after that.
Sorry for the ramble..lol

I've seen them run, they look okay for the exterior leaves, but i'm thinking maybe i'd just have to hand trim after anyway because i'm picky

Well we can rule that one out then, unless ya really really stubborn and stuck in your ways

of course I am. I'm over 30. It's a downward spiral from here

 

[bobrown14]

I promote growing naturally. IF you need to train away from the lights look up LST or low stress training aka SUPER CROPPING.

Anything you do to slow down growth reduces yields and your potency.

It takes 2 weeks for a plant to bounce back from topping.

When you ask about yields - time is part of the equation.

I'd focus on growing the plant to its full potential instead of worrying about yields or potency. Both of those are genetically dependent. To bring out the best in that cultivar should be a goal.

Topping you get 2 smaller colas instead of 1 large apical meristem. That main stem and top does many functions for the plant both for potency and yields. Why would anyone cut that off?

Try growing a plant naturally and see. Too much messing with plants only leads to issues down the road.

 

[TwitchVee]

I promote growing naturally. IF you need to train away from the lights look up LST or low stress training aka SUPER CROPPING.

Anything you do to slow down growth reduces yields and your potency.

It takes 2 weeks for a plant to bounce back from topping.

When you ask about yields - time is part of the equation.

I'd focus on growing the plant to its full potential instead of worrying about yields or potency. Both of those are genetically dependent. To bring out the best in that cultivar should be a goal.

Topping you get 2 smaller colas instead of 1 large apical meristem. That main stem and top does many functions for the plant both for potency and yields. Why would anyone cut that off?

Try growing a plant naturally and see. Too much messing with plants only leads to issues down the road.

Yeah, i'm more experienced than that. I don't care about yield as I stated and potency was lacking due to genetics as stated. I don't have any space issues whatsoever or any need to train anything away from a light. I'm not a budget grower. I was simply curious if anyone had any real data. I agree with what everyone said to an extent. I agree with some of what you said, some other parts are better advice for an outdoor grower and that bit about LST and super-cropping is just flat-out wrong. LST and super-cropping have just as much impact on a plant as topping if not more so and serve the same function, which is definitely not to help a stealth grow. I've seen people top a plant 20 times and mainline it to hell and back and still produce fire. It's always worth going back and double-checking your science. The one thing i've learned in the past twenty years about growing is that 90% of what we believe about doing it successfully is wrong. I do agree that the main cola not being topped should add to potency rather than spread resources in theory, but in theory only. I've never seen any science or side-by-side results that could possibly conclusively say one way or another besides by a few percent points and that's not noticeable.

 

[bobrown14]

Yeah, i'm more experienced than that. I don't care about yield as I stated and potency was lacking due to genetics as stated. I don't have any space issues whatsoever or any need to train anything away from a light. I'm not a budget grower. I was simply curious if anyone had any real data. I agree with what everyone said to an extent. I agree with some of what you said, some other parts are better advice for an outdoor grower and that bit about LST and super-cropping is just flat-out wrong. LST and super-cropping have just as much impact on a plant as topping if not more so and serve the same function, which is definitely not to help a stealth grow. I've seen people top a plant 20 times and mainline it to hell and back and still produce fire. It's always worth going back and double-checking your science. The one thing i've learned in the past twenty years about growing is that 90% of what we believe about doing it successfully is wrong. I do agree that the main cola not being topped should add to potency rather than spread resources in theory, but in theory only. I've never seen any science or side-by-side results that could possibly conclusively say one way or another besides by a few percent points and that's not noticeable.

AH nope.... You should steer clear of talking about grow techniques you have never tried. I.E. super cropping and LST.

There's a good reason LST is called LOW stress training. LST and topping are the opposite and thats not an opinion thats the science. When you do something to a plant that requires 2 weeks recovery like topping, thats HIGH stress not low stress.

I grow with the science of horticulture, biology, physics, chemistry and soil science. I learn or hope to learn something new every day. Topping has a place for say growing mothers but for yields no absolutely not.

The reason was already covered in my post. Anything you do to a plant that slows down growth reduces yields. I dont care what your grow buddy at the hydro store tells you.

IF you in a big professional grow they will have a dedicated green house just for VEG plants.. top away if thats your thing you can veg a plant for 3 months great. I'll still outperform you on yields and quality growing them naturally.

There are seed vendors that actually make seeds that are low and bushy for the pro growers, no topping required.

If you're not familiar with what the functions of an Apical Meristem or Root Apical Meristem I suggest you do your research. If you would like some links I can help you with your research.

I'm gonna go out onna limb and guess your next question. Will de-foil promote better yields and better quality?

I know the science behind that answer and the answer is a resoundingly NO. And for a lot of the reasons topping is a no-go.

I've been a sustainable organic farmer for a very very long time. Some of these grow "techniques" weed growers use are completely foreign to me and to be honest are not based on anything but hear-say.

You keep hearing something long enough its truthiness. Which can be read as complete bs.

Short list:
Topping
de-foil
flushing
dark period before harvest

There are many more and they've all been debunked and not by me by professional horticulturalists.

I just grow the plants organically and try and bring out the best and truest nature of each cultivar I grow based on the science of horticulture. Thats it...