Seedlings keep dying: Please help

[013]

domes & baggies are not good for seedlings - yes they can filter light or reflect it away, plus your chicks miss the chance to acclimate in their natural enviro.

poor analogy but - Which is stronger, a baby that needs an incubator to survive… or one that has no need of an incubator? Boom there it is

you want them to grow fast - but you are loving them to death. Try to garden with one hand in each pocket - look all you want, but don’t always touch. More water does not make them grow faster, it slows them down. You are dealing with tiny seedlings they need tiny water but not where the soil stays wet

no worries - we will get you tuned up……

 

[bluter]

Thanks for the help everyone. Is 100 percent brightness at 30 + or so inches too much for the tsw 2000 do you think that could be stunting growth?

i find a lighter touch is required with high power led. i use both dimming and height to control intensity to find a sweet spot.

there is a specific type of damage that occurs under led though.

I would use a seedling soil that is very aerated.
That FF soil is probably a tad hot.

I would bring the light down to about 18" and dim it to about 10,000 LUX which is less than 200 PPFD.
24/0 light is fine for seedlings it helps keep temps stable.
200 PPFD for 24 hours is 17 DLI which is about right.

agree with the above. seedlings and clones do better with a lower light on a dimmer.

i don't completely agree with the above,,

with bad soil one can for sure overwater,, if the soil stays wet that can and will lead to damping off and severely stunted growth,, and that is what i see,, soil is not releasing that water to drain

yes it can.
the op is using a known decent media which shouldn't have these issues though.

that's part of what we're trying to solve for.

is that the way the soil comes out of the bag? it looks like soil i had once,, full of woody bits and bark,, and i kinda remember it giving me grief.

a drainage issue imo,,

the bark etc increases drainage to a degree.

Also, I still think there is a benefit to a dome for seedlings just to be clear

domes are far more beneficial to clones. it needs to be real dry before it works as well for seedlings.
i grow in relatively dry rh conditions and really only dome clones and not seedlings.

I just dont get how 25 percent light at 24-30 inches could be the same as 100% brightness. There has to be a factor that completes this

there is. photon intensity can be moderated both by dimming or distance. mfgrs prefer distance in many instances as older growers are more used to this, having come from hid lighting. there are other reasons as well.

dimming in led has tendency to null certain parts of the spectrum more than others - it's not exactly even. because of this a lot of led mfgrs prefer the fixture to be run at 100% even though dimming is available. when the fixture is run at 100% all parts of the supplied spectrum are present.


in practice though, many growers find themselves adapting to using the dimming function. i prefer to grow this way myself.

So should I not have my light at 100 percent from 30+inches plus Im not getting this clearly as mars hydro has posted numerous times in tsw 2000 forums it should be max power at that height

a rough guide for high power led is :

seedling : 24 - 36 inches above canopy at 50 - 65 % intensity. sometimes as low as 25% at the very start.
early veg : 24 - 36 inches above canopy at 65 - 75 % intensity.
mid - late veg : 24 - 36 inches above canopy at 75 to 90% intensity.
flower : 18 - 24 inches above canopy at 90 - 100 % intensity.

watch for excessive stretch in seedling and increase intensity incrementally to counter. you'll find yourself ramping thru the stages faster than anticipated most times.


that is a rough guide based on a lot of different mfgrs suggestions. you will find what works best for you somewhere within that. always make sure to study your specific mfgrs recommendations.


i run my whole grow around 24 inches and just use dimming.

 

[shadowchaos19]

Looks proper. The small parts of the soil mix are exactly where they are supposed to be. The plant's root system is made up of many different sizes of roots and they have specific purposes. The big long tap root is there to anchor the plant to that particular spot in the soil. Coming off of that some large roots that radiate out and help stabilize the plant. Coming from those are feeder roots which grow through the soil. And coming from those are the small very skinny hair roots which do most of the work of absorbing the water which has the dissolved nutrients.

Those little hair roots, often as thin as a hair or even skinnier will grow into and through the pieces of organic material in the soil mix. If all goes well the hair roots get larger and start growing little hair roots of their own. The new hair roots grow even further out from the stem searching for more water and dissolved nutrients.

All is good. The Happy Frog soil is an excellent choice for for germinating seeds and the first couple of weeks of the seedling stage. It is supposed to have small pieces of partially decomposed organic material mixed in with the peat moss and the other ingredients Fox Farms uses as a soil base.

Just by chance are you gently lifting the seedlings up to check the roots?

I havent, the only time I pull them out is to try and inspect to see what im doing and find the source of my problem since this is a reoccuring thing

 

[shadowchaos19]

i find a lighter touch is required with high power led. i use both dimming and height to control intensity to find a sweet spot.

there is a specific type of damage that occurs under led though.





agree with the above. seedlings and clones do better with a lower light on a dimmer.






yes it can.
the op is using a known decent media which shouldn't have these issues though.

that's part of what we're trying to solve for.




the bark etc increases drainage to a degree.



domes are far more beneficial to clones. it needs to be real dry before it works as well for seedlings.
i grow in relatively dry rh conditions and really only dome clones and not seedlings.







there is. photon intensity can be moderated both by dimming or distance. mfgrs prefer distance in many instances as older growers are more used to this, having come from hid lighting. there are other reasons as well.

dimming in led has tendency to null certain parts of the spectrum more than others - it's not exactly even. because of this a lot of led mfgrs prefer the fixture to be run at 100% even though dimming is available. when the fixture is run at 100% all parts of the supplied spectrum are present.


in practice though, many growers find themselves adapting to using the dimming function. i prefer to grow this way myself.








a rough guide for high power led is :

seedling : 24 - 36 inches above canopy at 50 - 65 % intensity. sometimes as low as 25% at the very start.
early veg : 24 - 36 inches above canopy at 65 - 75 % intensity.
mid - late veg : 24 - 36 inches above canopy at 75 to 90% intensity.
flower : 18 - 24 inches above canopy at 90 - 100 % intensity.

watch for excessive stretch in seedling and increase intensity incrementally to counter. you'll find yourself ramping thru the stages faster than anticipated most times.


that is a rough guide based on a lot of different mfgrs suggestions. you will find what works best for you somewhere within that. always make sure to study your specific mfgrs recommendations.


i run my whole grow around 24 inches and just use dimming.

Thank you for this information!!!

 

[shadowchaos19]

First of all I want to absolutely thank you guys for all the love and knowledge/wisdom you have shared especially Emilya!


You guys have been so helpful and I think I was more reluctant to water my plants due to stunted growth with way too much light for young plants.

Also my watering habits are atrocious I realized.

You all have been so caring and helpful I really feel much better today and more optimistic!

 

[SmokingWings]

I havent, the only time I pull them out is to try and inspect to see what im doing and find the source of my problem since this is a reoccuring thing

I strongly recommend that you do not continue to remove the seedlings from the soil just to inspect the root growth. In soil, each and every time you do this you damage some of the smaller, younger roots. When you put the seedling back it has to spend time and energy growing new feeder/hair roots. It is possible to remove plants to look at roots when growing in a hydroponic style that involves the roots sitting in water or being sprayed.

With a bit of experience you, as the grower, will be able to tell a lot about what is happening just by looking at the portion of the plant that is above the soil line.

The only time the grower needs to deliberately remove the plant is when he or she is transplanting to a larger container. With time you can even figure out how to remove a huge "mother" plant, whack off large chunks of root mass with a machete, and replant in the soil to keep that "mother" going for another 6-12 months of producing clones.

But with plants in the seedling stage the less handling the better until it gets a good root system established.

 

[732002]

I agree with Smokingwings don't pull plant to see roots. Double solo cups and
you will see roots come out the bottom of cup soon enough. It is surprising
how small a plant can be and have the roots coming out the bottom of the cup.

Growing from seeds, sometimes you get runts.............

 

[Emilya Green]

I agree with Smokingwings don't pull plant to see roots. Double solo cups and
you will see roots come out the bottom of cup soon enough. It is surprising
how small a plant can be and have the roots coming out the bottom of the cup.

Growing from seeds, sometimes you get runts.............

Some people use a clear cup so they can see the roots, and then just slip it down inside a second colored solo cup to block the light.
Regarding those roots... people tend to forget the purpose of the tap root... that first root down to the bottom of the cup. This actually happens immediately and is the first major task of the new seedling as it comes into the world, finding out where the bottom is. Once in a while, a plant with very poor aim, heads that tap root right out of the bottom drainage holes, and I have seen this happen as soon as 3 days above ground!

 

[Buds Buddy]

A couple of pics so you see what they are talking about. I put holes in the bottom of the Clear Cup only for drainage into the red cup. I can lift the clear cup out of the Red cup & check root growth without damaging the roots.

 

[shadowchaos19]

Thoughts on this plant that is darker green ? Is it healthy ?

 

[shadowchaos19]

Also my seedling with yellowing normal ?

 

[shadowchaos19]

What kind of lux at im i wanting to stay at? I also do realize I have new seedlings with 2-3 week old plants

 

[shadowchaos19]

Increased the brightness from 20-25 ish to 40 ish and seeing the leaves pointing upwards

 

[Riemenschneider]

Hello @shadowchaos19 sorry to hear your having problems.
Water kills babies for sure.
I'd plant them a little deeper.
Then get a small turkey baster and water around outside edge of them.
Put the water where you want the roots to go not where they are.
Overwatering cuts off oxygen and they drown
Turkey baster will give you better control.
Just a little at a time.
And don't pull them out.
Happy growing.
Bill

I’m having the same stretching issues, would you suggest adding soil to support the little plant?
Many thanks.

 

[Bill284]

I’m having the same stretching issues, would you suggest adding soil to support the little plant?
Many thanks.

Yes a little dirt around the stem will give it the support it needs.
If you move you light a little closer, not too close she will stop stretching.
Bill

 

[Emilya Green]

What kind of lux at im i wanting to stay at? I also do realize I have new seedlings with 2-3 week old plants

7-20k, max

 

[Stoner4201987]

The problem in my humble opinion, is your watering method, not your light, not your soil, not the humidity. Turn your light to 25% for the seedlings and bring it down to 24 inches. If your leaves look ok after a few hours, all is good. You need to start making some decisions for yourself. If you want to keep growing by committee, you will continue to fail. You have received several answers just on this question here that gave you incorrect and even non factual information, and you got some good information... it is up to you to decide which is which. I suggest that you look at a current grow or two of each of the people that gave you advice. Check out their methods and their results. The proof is in the pudding as they say. Do your research. Do not expect a stone tablet to appear giving you the actual and beyond dispute right answer... that will not happen on an online forum. Despite what the naysayers claim, there is in fact one best way to grow pot... it is the way that you finally figure out that works for you. Trust nothing you hear out here on the internet... verify what you can and make it your own.

Could I get you to get indepth a Lil more on my Mars hydro TS 3000 I got three light week 4-6 in flower and Absolutely loved it and started a new grow and turned it down like a dumbass and can't get i/o and v/o set back correctly? I'd even need b Stafford with how they factory settings were... I want you to know I've read and read and asked and asked and always get told 100% at very top of tent.. lol that too strong if not that answer I get a graph of suggested hanging height...

 

[Emilya Green]

Could I get you to get indepth a Lil more on my Mars hydro TS 3000 I got three light week 4-6 in flower and Absolutely loved it and started a new grow and turned it down like a dumbass and can't get i/o and v/o set back correctly? I'd even need b Stafford with how they factory settings were... I want you to know I've read and read and asked and asked and always get told 100% at very top of tent.. lol that too strong if not that answer I get a graph of suggested hanging height...

I have no clue, sorry. Maybe contact Sara at Marshydro?

 

[013]

Last time I asked they told me Sara was gone IDK on that part but there are several dedicated Mars threads but some are specific to FC fixture types so just ask in the general Mars Hydro thread here’s link Mars Thread