Tony Sussan's Sealed Sea Of Green!

[Tony Sussan]

im sure with a few rounds of messing around we will find a happy medium

AMEN brother!

 

[Rickie]

yeah tony if you could give me the info that would be great me and the mrs actually fly bk to aus on the 18th

 

[Fluffy Haze]

Hellllloooo!

I wanted to come by quick and get subbed so I don't forget, then I can come back and have a good read through later.

See you soon, damn, got to go to work ...

 

[Tony Sussan]

Hellllloooo!

I wanted to come by quick and get subbed so I don't forget, then I can come back and have a good read through later.

See you soon, damn, got to go to work ...

Hey Fluffy! Nice to see you here! I am looking forward to any comments you choose to make

 

[Tony Sussan]

Hey guys!
Just thought i throw a few pics in for you of the second biggest bud on one of the reject mommas. The colours are a bit off but thats cos they sat under my led lights. You will get the idea though! Whoever said LED's cant flower a plant (not mentioning any names) COUGH fishcake must be bonkers!

Cheers for looking guys!

Tony

 

[Tony Sussan]

Everything looks great T Cant wait to see the final product with your led's. Have u any idea how many amp's one of those draws?

Hey hows things?
I not dropped into your journal for a while but i will very soon!
As we have 240v here i think the amp draw is very minimal. My sparkie (electrician) did tell me how to work it out but i forget now. Either way they use f'all power considering what you can punch out with em! Cheers for dropping in!

 

[Cultivator]

gotta disagree with you there Northener,Ive grown both the strains im growing now without co2 and so far in veg the growth rate is pretty much double my last grow and I have no issues with temps.unless you mean just in flower, I know from my personal experience that i get much bigger yields with co2 so now im really curious lol. I think im going to keep the ppm's at 1000 this round and compare the 2 once this round has cured for a few weeks.I think you are probably right C but I wont know for sure until I try it for myself.

U say u yield more using co2? are u sure its just the co2 increasing yield? have u changed anything else since using co2? diff nutes, training techniques, lighting? my yields are just about exactly the same. for example when i was predominantly growing in coco i would yield on average 90-95oz dry off 4 600w hps whether i used co2 or not. The only diff was faster veg rates and co2 took about 8-10 days off my veg time. But it also left my buds jsut not as strong, i dont know why this is or have any scientific fact to back it up but that def was the case. They werent as crystally or sticky either. Ive done a little bit of reading since then and from what im understanding is co2 promotes the growth of plant and if using it other areas will be neglectected like trich production. Now this is just how i think it works from what ive read, as i said im not a great academic, i learn by doing but it kind of makes sense. The bottom line is many factors affect yield and quality. Light in my opinion is the most important, then enviroment and nutes. Right now most of the 14 grows i have running are in tents 1.2x2.4x2meters and under 2 600w hps or 2 1000w hps, i do have other big areas growing but i can compare these tents easier as the controls are all pretty much the same. I average 55oz dry per tent under 2 600w and 80+ off 2 1000w hps with no co2, i cant beat that using co2 and the quality is spot on.

Now I have never worked in a completely sealed room and i dont know how that works as u need to get air from somewhere. I have always had extraction and passive intakes with fans circulating the air. So if u dont have any air coming into the room or any going out how does that work? if u have created an atmosphere in the room does it not get messed up every time u open the door? forgive me if these are stupid questions but i have no idea how that works.

Anyway to sum up. CO2 IMO is great for veg but not great for flower and for the sake of saving a week or 2 on my grow its not worth the extra cost and time to set up when a well ventilated room will do a great job. But then i dont need to worry about saving a week or 2 here and there.



Nice buds by the way Tony.

 

[jon705]

you might be absolutely right C,maybe the added yield is from the more robust growth in veg.I find the ladies are thicker and stiffer using co2.plants cannot grow without fresh co2 beeing brought into the room somehow.with a vented room you replace the co2 everytime you vent.with a sealed room we supplement the co2 and scrub the air with a carbon filter.the levels only change if you leave the door open.I guess Ive been going by the oldschool 1200 ppm veg 1500 ppm flower on and off for years now.what your saying makes sense to me though,so im thinking this is the begining of a little experiment.im going to keep the ppm's at 1000 for this grow and next round I ll drop the ppm's to 500 in flower and see what happens

 

[Vick074]

So C,
Any chance of finding the time in the new year to do that CO2 experiment we talked about brother??
Although you've got a lot of experience in massive commercial grows, tons of grow knowledge with using CO2 and without. (Anyone would find your knowledge very respectable.) But nothing is going to put these theories to rest without an actual documented comparison grow like you offered to do in my last journal.. We can all say, "this works for me" and even "I wouldn't do that" But without actual evidence, we're all running blind..
That being said, I do believe you're onto something C. And I'm starting to believe what you're saying about CO2 in flower. And even based on that alone, I am backing off my CO2 distribution in bloom, and at 4 weeks gradually cutting it right down to "OFF" for the remainder. But we really do need some documented proof here. And I'm just throwing this out here again C, just because I said I'd bug you about it..lol
I know you're super busy this time of year, and I don't mean to pressure you at all brother. But when I see these same discussions coming up, I can't help but to say something. You hold the power to ending discussions like this for good!! Hell you might even find some things out that NONE of us knew!!

ahem..

I guess i will do a comparisson grow. I will have to finish up my current journal first as i dont want to clog it up with another angle to follow as i already have a lot going on in there.

I dont deny that there is faster and more vigorous growth when using co2, thats not my point. U def can push more nutes, take higher temps and get lush growth. However its all about the bud, and on that front like for like theres not much difference to yield at all. Also i dont know why but the quality of the bud just isnt the same as when u dont use co2, i cant explain why i found that but i def can tell a difference.

Anyway its great to experiment and try things for urselve, that way u can see what works for u. I guess thats whats important. I manage too much to be messing around with co2 and some of the issues it brings up. But i'll put it in my next journal and do a like for like just for the hell of it.

Wut Wut!!!!
Sick!! So you're going to do a comparison grow, this is going to be awesome!
For someone with so many grows going on all over the place, I can totally see why CO2 isn't viable for you. Too many things for you to worry about..
Now in order to do this comparison fairly, you're going to have to find a way to either test THC and CBD's between the 2, (or the easier alternative) Give sample of each to an impartial judge. There has to be proof, not just, "the non CO2 got me way higher.."
You're going to have a lot of people watching and waiting on this comparison with great anticipation. You have the power to either confirm or deny the benefits of CO2.

wow, that's some heavy shit bro.
I'm stoked.

Yeah mate i'll do it. Ive got a room with a couple of 1.2x2.4x2metre tents in that would be perfect for it. I'll figure out a way to keep it as fair as possible. Maybe we could hook up somwhere in the mid atlantic and compare thoughts on the final product.


Most likely it will be in the new year before i can get around to it as i am very busy at this time of year but i definately will do it.

But I have to agree, using CO2 in veg makes your plants go twice as crazy as without.. This I can say for sure..
Now with C's help, lets work on the other "for sure's"

 

[Fluffy Haze]

Hmm. You might not be saying that after a few random Fluffy outbursts, especially if that reprobate Fish Cake gets involved. He always ends up making a mess and I get the blame too. As it I would ever do anything

Hey Fluffy! Nice to see you here! I am looking forward to any comments you choose to make

 

[Fluffy Haze]

Argh! I keep forgetting to get the bits to make one of them homemade Do It Yelling versions ... brewer's yeast and something isn't it?

But I have to agree, using CO2 in veg makes your plants go twice as crazy as without.. This I can say for sure..

 

[Tony Sussan]

HhMMMM! Look guys i did plenty more reading after our discussion yesterday and the vast majority of anecdotal evidence from other growers suggests that co2 is the MOST benefit in the flowering stage. Now my experience thus far with dropping my ppm to 600 from the 1000 i was running when the reject mommas were first put into flower is that the flower development on my clones has been slightly slower. BUT different plants, diffrent grow technique etc so cant take that as gospel.
What i was reading while researching was saying that co2 most certainly speeds metabolism in the plants and contributes to faster development as long as the lighting, water and nutrients were there to go with it. These same growers were reporting at least 30% extra yield and some even more, which they claim is directly attributed to co2 usage. The same arguments came up as far as potency and the evidence that is qouted was saying roughly 2-4% decrease in potency. To be honest i dont see that as significant so if thats the case that would not sway me to ditch the use of co2. The main point that really peaked my interest is some people saying that flowers are harder to ripen with co2 use due to ethylene production being slowed with atmospheric co2 being used. I gonna look harder for some scientific based research that may have already been done which may help me make a decision but for now my co2 is staying at 1000ppm as i have seen no evidence in my own grow thus far to sway me one way or the other with any conviction.

 

[Vick074]

Argh! I keep forgetting to get the bits to make one of them homemade Do It Yelling versions ... brewer's yeast and something isn't it?

Morning Fluff, you're looking to make a DIY CO2 jobby?
I'll post up a recipe in your journal so we don't disturb things here..

 

[northener]

Nice buds tony. Can't wait to see this comparison C.

 

[jon705]

if 2 to 4 % is all it is then im not switching either bro.as for ripening I dial the co2 down gradually towards the final weeks to about 400-500 ppm's.I actually didnt know this helped with ripening from what ive read the plants dont need much of it that late into flower so its just a waste of money.

 

[Tony Sussan]

if 2 to 4 % is all it is then im not switching either bro.as for ripening I dial the co2 down gradually towards the final weeks to about 400-500 ppm's.I actually didnt know this helped with ripening from what ive read the plants dont need much of it that late into flower so its just a waste of money.

Yep i am with you on this but my biggest issue is i cant really dial down as i have a perpetual running with plants at different stages of flower. I am just gonna have to suck it and see i guess!

 

[fish cake]

so these 2 aussies walk by this bar.... well it could happen

Hmm. You might not be saying that after a few random Fluffy outbursts, especially if that reprobate Fish Cake gets involved. He always ends up making a mess and I get the blame too. As it I would ever do anything

 

[fish cake]

WOW my head is about to exsplode my friends

 

[Vick074]

if 2 to 4 % is all it is then im not switching either bro.as for ripening I dial the co2 down gradually towards the final weeks to about 400-500 ppm's.I actually didnt know this helped with ripening from what ive read the plants dont need much of it that late into flower so its just a waste of money.

I agree jon and Tony.
I'm going to do the same. I have also read that lowering the PPM's to almost nothing during final weeks does help with ripening.
Since it's almost impossible for me get my PPM's that low near the end in my 5x5 tent, Ill just turn off the bottle and have a DIY unit in there to maintain a good 500-800, then final 2 weeks nothing..

 

[Cultivator]

So C,
Any chance of finding the time in the new year to do that CO2 experiment we talked about brother??
Although you've got a lot of experience in massive commercial grows, tons of grow knowledge with using CO2 and without. (Anyone would find your knowledge very respectable.) But nothing is going to put these theories to rest without an actual documented comparison grow like you offered to do in my last journal.. We can all say, "this works for me" and even "I wouldn't do that" But without actual evidence, we're all running blind..
That being said, I do believe you're onto something C. And I'm starting to believe what you're saying about CO2 in flower. And even based on that alone, I am backing off my CO2 distribution in bloom, and at 4 weeks gradually cutting it right down to "OFF" for the remainder. But we really do need some documented proof here. And I'm just throwing this out here again C, just because I said I'd bug you about it..lol
I know you're super busy this time of year, and I don't mean to pressure you at all brother. But when I see these same discussions coming up, I can't help but to say something. You hold the power to ending discussions like this for good!! Hell you might even find some things out that NONE of us knew!!

ahem..







But I have to agree, using CO2 in veg makes your plants go twice as crazy as without.. This I can say for sure..
Now with C's help, lets work on the other "for sure's"

Hi vick

I said i will do a comparisson and i stand by that mate. prob start it end of january, ive got few harvests to sort out over christmas plus the family stuff to deal with but i promise i'll get it done early 2013. i'll prob either do it in 2 seperate 1.2x2.4x2metre grow tents or i do have a larger unit that i could split, its just about timing for me really. The only thing is how do i prove if the dope is better or lesser quality, its no good me just saying it. I'll have to figure something out there. i mean as ive said lots of times i dont doubt co2 boosts veg growt and its handy if u cant get ur temps down cos then u just add co2 and up ur nutes to accomodate. But there is only so much weed u can get per light and thats a fact and my yields werent bigger using co2. off 1 600w light in dwc i average 27.5oz dry. i never do grows with less than 2 600w as its not worth it for me but pulling 55 oz off 2 600w is about as good as it gets. ive had less and ive had very slightly more. its just an aditional cost and another thing to think about thats unecessary for me. I can see where some growers would benefit though. But i'll try prove my point in the new year. You guys all have nice grows so hey if its working for u who am i to say anything.