DIY Stealth Cab, Hydro, LED & Multiple Strains in Small Space - Oh Boy!

[Mr. Krip]

Quick Update: Reviewing my grow again (I'm sure all of you can relate to this!), it occurred to me that I was still giving the plants a relatively low dose of nutes at 550PPM. GH says 440 PPM for seedlings and 1010 PPM for MILD growth (agressive growth is 1430 PPM!). So, this morning, on the waterfarm kush only, I upped the PPM's to 620 by adding some additional Micro, Grow & DM Zone. I didn't want to push too far since she's still getting her roots and I haven't been seeing PPM's dropping at all, but perhaps this will help with any possible nute deficiencies? Also, I'm going to need to get her in the 1000+ PPM range sometime over the next few weeks, so will be increasing slowly.

 

[HempRocket]

I was going through the development of the AK today & thought this was fun, if not interesting. I received the plant the night of 1/21/2011 and did the LST the next day:

Wow what a difference.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Wow what a difference.

Thanks Hemp! I'm pretty proud of her myself.

All pride aside, it does appear that the yellow banding has gotten worse. Still not bad, but I can see the difference in one day.

Everything tells me this is most likely a Manganese (MN) deficiency, but possibly iron or zinc and, I guess, they often appear together. The treatment is supposed to be to add chelated Manganese.

So, I found some of this at Lowes for $2.68:

Here's the overview:

Just 7 Drops Per Quart Water Feeds Everything You Grow!
10-15-10
All Purpose "Starts and Feeds" Formula
Feeds through roots and leaves as you water
Excellent for transplanting repotting and rooting
Safe, will not burn even in hottest weather when used as directed
Easy-to-measure dropper™
Mother Nature feeds plants every time it rains, dissolving nutrients and distributing them evenly to all plants. You can do the same every time you water your houseplants, feeding them with Schultz® Liquid Plant Food Plus™.
Guaranteed Analysis 10-15-10
Total Nitrogen (N)....10%
1.6% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
0.2% Nitrate Nitrogen
8.2% Urea Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)....15%
Soluble Potash (K2O)....10%
Iron (Fe)....0.10%
0.10% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)....0.05%
0.5% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Zinc (Zn)....0.05%
0.05% Chelated Zinc (Zn)
Derived from Urea, Ammonium and Potassium Phosphates, Potassium Nitrate, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Zinc EDTA
Potential Acidity: 400lb CaCO3 per Ton
Consistency, color, and sediment may vary. These variations do not change effectiveness. Keeps indefinitely. Contains coloring. Avoid spilling.
When applied as directed, this product meets the guidelines for metals adopted by the Association of American Plant Food Control Officials. Information regarding the contents and levels of metals in this product is available on the internet at regulatory-info-99.com
Limited Warranty to Consumers
Good Housekeeping Promises Replacement or Refund if Defective
Made in U.S.A.
Schultz Company

I added it at 1/4 strength for now, since I just upped the PPM's this morning, and we'll see how she does.

 

[turttle]

If you dont mind me saying.It looks like a pretty good product.With a little expson salt I think it would be a complete feed.I am not sure why they dont add mag.I see this in my maxsea as well and I half to suppliment.
I also sent DM gold an email to see if the DM zone can be used with organics.I am not sure but they say its good for all medians after doing a little more research on there sight but at the same time I have heard people saying dont mix it with any organic part nute as it will kill some of the nutes make up.Bothers me a bit they dont tell you whats in it.But now that I know exactly what the product is I find it interesting and may give it a try.I have herd good and bad...But the only bad from what I have herd was really expensive and had to use a high ppm and bottles did not last very long.But I cant really say until I have used it my self.

 

[Mr. Krip]

SOME ROOT SHOTS:

The Haze roots are just about in the bottom res:

The Kush roots are going off and looking beautiful:

 

[jcool09]

Thanks Hemp! I'm pretty proud of her myself.

All pride aside, it does appear that the yellow banding has gotten worse. Still not bad, but I can see the difference in one day.

Everything tells me this is most likely a Manganese (MN) deficiency, but possibly iron or zinc and, I guess, they often appear together. The treatment is supposed to be to add chelated Manganese.

Krip just because the plant shows deficiency doesn't mean that the nutes are not present- your plants are recovering from the inability to access nutrients through their roots. It's going to take a little bit of time before the new roots can provide all that is needed to a large plant. I would also advise against mixing any off-the-shelf generic plant foods into a hydro system. These nutes are meant for houseplants and if the Schultz product is anything like the Miracle Gro product then it will be too strong and not work well with cannabis. The hydro nutes you are already using provide a a complete diet for your plants. Any deficiencies will be be made up by res changes and raising the PPM.

 

[Mr. Krip]

JC, thanks for the input. It did occur to me that a possible reason for any deficiencies would be the roots inability to uptake the nutes because of the root damage. It's just hard to sit and do nothing when I could see the plant apparently getting worse after the roots had been developing so nicely.

The good news is that it certainly hasn't done any harm (at least, so far!). The Kush had a nice little growth spurt last night (I'm not crediting the Schultz for this) and I had to raise the lights again this morning. She does seem to be looking better on the banding, but I'll need another day or two to see if it's really clearing up or if there's just so much new growth, it's not as obvious.

Will post some more pics later.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Guys, I have another potential issue I need some help/advice with.

The Kush is still going great, but now I'm starting to see a bunch of pre-flowers. Again, I'll get some more pics later today. She appeared to be in either pre-flower or flower when she got here.

I did some research and found that Afghan Kush is available as both a "standard" and an auto-flowering pheno. So, I'm starting to think I have an auto-flower and she's now on auto!

I don't know much about autoflowering varieties. Do I need to flip the swith on her right away? Is there any problems with keeping her in veg another week?

It did occur to me that the possible nute deficiency I noticed in the last day or two is because I need to get her on flower nutes ASAP.

Here's some info on what I may have:

Sex : Feminized
Type : Indica, Ruderalis
Flowering : Autoflowering
Genetics : Pure Landrace proceeding from Afghanistan re-crossed with Rudelaris
Flowering Time : Short, Medium
Outdoor Harvest : n/a
Height : Short
THC Level : 22%
Characteristics : very narcotic, almost devastating

World of Seeds Afghan Kush Ryder Autoflowering is a result of numerous experiments that had been carried out to create new, strong and potential marijuana strains. The famous feminized seed of Afghan Kush was back crossed with a Ruderalis and gave a start to Afghan Kush Ryder.
This 100% indica hybrid instantly became a favourite on international cannabis markets for her easy growing qualities and high narcotic abilities, some of which are incredible medical values. Afghan Kush marijuana strain has strong hashish smell so popular amongst marijuana smokers. Her hardwood sweet taste combined with a very narcotic effect (THC – 21.6%) makes her one of our bestsellers.

Being a auto-flowering marijuana, Afghan Kush Ryder grows from a feminized cannabis seed flower in response to age rather than light cycle. She will grow vegetative for approximately 14 days then enter into a rapid, almost violent flowering period. For the next 55 days, she will branch out profusely, throw out pistils in their thousands, calyxes will swell and a coating of resin glands will make the mature plant glisten as if dusted with fine cannabis diamonds. Being quite petite, Afghan Kush Ryder automatic remains a great yielder, producing as much as 150-200 gr. per m2 when grown indoors.
The cross with a ruderalis also means that Afghan Kush Ryder feminized cannabis seeds can be grown virtually anywhere with the high tolerance to such risks as mould and pests. Balconies, patios, window boxes, indoors or outdoors, this connoisseur grade seed is now attainable for every marijuana grower.

With a lifespan of a mere 55 days from seed to harvest, it is not only possible to get an early harvest of high quality marijuana but multiple harvests per season. Growing Afghan Kush Ryder indoors recommends 20 hours of light daily throughout the cycle. She is happy to grow outdoors from as early as March with a harvest in May to return to a plant in June with a harvest in August. The increased height compared to earlier auto-flowering strains brings with it increased yield.

It seems maybe I should put her in the flower chamber ASAP so she doesn't autoflower under the T5??? It also seems I should keep lights at 20/4 even in flower?

Any tips on autoflowering varieties are appreciated!

Thanks!

K

 

[Mr. Krip]

I guess I don't need to swith to 12/12!

What is AutoFlowering?

Auto-flowering characteristic grants a cannabis plant the ability to completely flower without the need for reduction of day-light hours; in turn, eliminating the need for a timer. It will grow consistently well and finish under 24 hours of light - from sprouting to harvest - in eight weeks, although you can achieve similar results with 18 hours of light per day; if you like to give your room time to cool down, for example. The point is, with Lowryder, there is no need for a change in the light period to induce flowering, nor is it necessary to have separate vegetative and flowering rooms!

Here's some more good info I found on another board:

Autoflowering strains were derived from using Cannabis Ruderalis species which was discovered around the 1920's I believe(if wrong please feel free to correct me). This strain was discovered and actually sold by the Seed Bank and SSSC in the mid 80's, however it ended up getting placed on the back burner due to it's poor potency and yields.

I'm unsure of what breeder produced thye first autoflowering strain, it has been debated for years on many forums. What breeders did was take strains w/ high THC levels and using cubing carried the autoflowering trait from ruderalis while keeping a high percentage of the potent strains THC levels and characteristics. Basically creating dwarf plants that grow just like their bigger brothers and sisters, only they autoflower w/out changing the light cycles. They will flower under 24 hours cycles, 20/4 cycles(which is most recommended by breeders), or even 18/6. They seldom grow above 4 ft, more often stay around 2.5 - 3 ft.

advantages: do not have to change light cycles, grow to full maturity in 70-90 days(depending on strain), take up much less space so you can fit more plants in a small area, are easy to grow, and yields are good. I grew Auto AK aquired from a Canadian breeder which 5 females gave me over 300 gms of manicured bud.

They are not set-up to flower at a certain point, it is natural trait of the Ruderalis strain carried over through selective breeding and cubing.

They well suited for indoor and outdoor growing. There are few places in the world that do not support a 70-90 day grow season; therefore they are great for regions that have short grow seasons. They are great indoors, you can fit many plants in a small area. I grew out the AK's in a 2ft X 3ft area and probably could have fit a couple more in there.

No! I have heard of people trying to clone them, however they still autoflower. Basically b/c of minimal branching and the fact they automatically flower, they are not suitable for cloning.

Some say yes, some argue no. I found the AK to be of good quality and potency. People are taken off base b/c of the Ruderalis genes, however breeders have used cubing to pass along only the auto trait and keep the majority of the other strains characterisitics, including potency. The auto AK's potency compared to the original AK was virtually un-noticable. A slight variation in taste, and a very slight variation in potency. To0 answer your question, they proably are not as potent as the original, but it is not really a noticable difference.

 

[Mr. Krip]

OK...so another interesting little tidbit...It appears you can't really clone autoflowering strains. I've heard some say that you can, but you get really small, single cola buds IF the clone survives. The one clone I took does seem to be doing well, but maybe it will end up trying to flower tomorrow and not get developed enough to product anything major. I actually started soaking some rockwool today in case I needed to take some quick clones before putting her into flower, but now I think I just need to put her in flower and deal with clones on the other gals. The AK seems like a real nice strain to have if there's a way to keep it going, though!

I like that you can veg & flower in the same room under the same light!

 

[HempRocket]

Ok first of all, just because you have preflowers doesn't mean they are autoflowering. Most plants will have preflowers with pistils when they mature. They won't flower though until you switch to 12/12. Autoflowers will flower under any light schedule because flowering is triggered with age.

Don't panic, if they are autoflowering, they will flower under any light and any schedule. If they actually start flowering (and not showing ONLY preflowers) then you will know that they are in fact autos.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Ok first of all, just because you have preflowers doesn't mean they are autoflowering. Most plants will have preflowers with pistils when they mature. They won't flower though until you switch to 12/12. Autoflowers will flower under any light schedule because flowering is triggered with age.

Don't panic, if they are autoflowering, they will flower under any light and any schedule. If they actually start flowering (and not showing ONLY preflowers) then you will know that they are in fact autos.

Hemp, thanks!!!

Actually, once I learned a little more, I kinda stopped panicking and now I don't believe they are autoflowers. Here's my reasoning (from what I've been able to gather):

Autoflowers are genetically programmed to flower at a certain time, regardless of light conditions. This is why you're not supposed to clone them. Since they have the same genetic code as the mother, all clones will flower at the same time as the mothers.

It also seems that they will autoflower (if they ARE autoflowers!) after a couple of weeks and have a total cycle of 55-70 days from seed.

So, based on the size of the stalks when I got them, they had to be much more than a couple of weeks old and would have already autoflowered if they were actually autoflowers.

That being said, although a little blurry, here's some shots of the pistils she's now spitting out all over the place!

I'm happy if I can give her another week of vegging but in another week, I think she'll definately be ready to flower. Just a little worried about her hermying from the previous stress.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Here's some pics of the babies:

The PE is doing great and looking perfect:

The LS* looks almost perfect IF you're looking though a magnifying glass!!!

Even though she was germinated (in STG cube!) and sprouted 2-3 days earlier than the PE, she has basically been stunted since she sprouted her first leaves. Now she's working on her 4th set of leaves and is less than 1/2 the size of the PE and under 2" wide! She is cute, but I'm hoping once those roots finally hit the res on the hempy, she starts taking off.

Here she is, in all her tiny glory:

Tomorrow, I change the waterfarm res's and I plan on upping the PPM's on the nutes all around. I'll try to get more pics then.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[NEPharmer]

I got one of my plants that has autoflowering traits in my veg room under 224hrs of light and is in full flower. The others are the same strain, but did not get the trait to autoflower. If possible, I would put her in your flower room when the oyhers flower, and at night you could put back in the veg room to get more light. Since they are triggered by time rather than light, this would give her better bud growth. Lookin good thogh,
Peace,
NEPharmer

 

[Mr. Krip]

PIC UPDATE:

The two babies both look like they've started yellowing a little. It doesn't appear to be nute burn, so I'm hoping they're just craving more nutes, and that's what I gave them today. If you guys think it's something else, please let me know!

Here's the PE:

And here's the LS*:

Both Hazes are starting their growth spurts in the last couple of days. Here's the hempy haze:

And, here's the haze in the waterfarm...sorry I forgot to take root pics when I was changing res's this morning, but hers don't show much of a change since last root pics. She is just starting to fill in and even out up top:

And, for now, my pride & joy. The watefarm Kush has just filled in beautifully and now has numerous bud sites. I really can't wait to get her into flower!

Here's a profile shot:

You can see how nice & even the canopy is...it almost looks like I did a SCROG, but it was all LST and only 4 tie downs, the rest was done by weaving the branches:

Finally, a close-up of the canopy...nice, lush, & ready to bud!

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[turttle]

Looking good krip...

 

[HempRocket]

They have come a long way. You are right in concluding that they yellowing leaves are a sign of N deficiency. Just don't overdo it and they will be very happy.

 

[turttle]

Hey krip...I finally got an email back from DM.No pun intended and hope it is not taken the wrong way but the dm zone is not designed to work with organic nor part organic nutes.I am not sure if gh is part organic but just to be catious just in case down the road any deficiencys are noticed but IMO you should be good as a lot of people mix h202 with gh(not that its the same as the root conditioner).I like the dm from what I have seen and read.All thow I may not change to synthetic but there is a couple of there products I am wanting to try out like the liquide lightand there reverse product.

Ticket Subject: dutch master zone root conditioner
You Wrote:
Can I use this product with fox farm nutes.The fox farm is sea weed and partially organic with one part 100 percent organic with quano and castings.I have been using hydrozyme with this particular feeding schedule but was curiouse if the zone would keep roots healthier and cleaner or is zone root conditioner only intended to be used with synthetic base nutes.


Hi There
Thanks for your email!

ZONE is not designed to work with true organic nutrients.

Did you know for powdery mildew just add 15 mls of Gold Range ZONE with 20 mls of Gold Range SATURATOR to 1 litre or 1 quart of water and spray the problem areas - it's that easy!

Did you also know that Gold Range REVERSE will put an end to those nasty seed problems caused by unwanted herms - see our website for instructions!

Once you have tried our Gold Range NUTRIENT with Gold Range ADD.27, Gold Range SILICA, Gold Range ZONE, Gold Range SATURATOR and Gold Range LIQUID LIGHT, you will see the most amazing results possible - guaranteed!!

 

[chrgrsfan]

It must of been Craig that emailed you back Turttle, he must have been making his replies yesterday because he emailed me back on something else as well. He's the owner & tech guy. Pretty nice guy, so is Joe.

I agree with you, if people use GH with H2O2 then not a organic product such as the FF that you are using & most likely no issues then with DM Zone. In fact I look up all the nutes you have listed K~ & GH Flora Series (which is what your waterfarm came with) & none (superthrive, & I believe almost all the AN stuff made but definetly the stuff you listed Grow/Bloom/Micro-Bud candy-Big Bud-Overdrive are not organic) should not have any interaction issues with the DM Zone. AN is suppose to be some really good shit; AN Sensi Grow A/B was what I used to finish Veg after going to H2O2 due to Botanicare Pro Grow being an organic nute.

I do think if you are into a foliar feeding program then LL/S are a great way to go. Not the cheapest but you use such small amounts that it works out in the end. "Caution"- If you use LL/S do not ph water, only RO'ed non-H2O2'ed water, or Rain Water or really good tap water should be used to mix these products. And if using MH or HPS must raise lights for a few hours after spraying. Then Mist in between spray days with plain water so any nute left on leaf can be absorbed by plant. Make sure to spary under side of leaf, as well as, top side of leaf to just to point of runoff. W~ really likes the foliar spray.

How are all the plants doing today? Talk to ya soon ~H~

 

[Mr. Krip]

That's all great info guys - thanks!

I also checked and it does appear the GH and AN nutes are all synthetic.

The plants all seem to be doing well and actually better than I expected to see today.

Yesterday, for the first time, I used the GH Nutrient Calculator and mixed the waterfarms at about 3/4 of what the calculator said was "mild growth". By the time I was done adding the Superthrive, DM Zone, & a little PH Down, the PPM's were at 1030!

I probably should have lowered it, but I figured since it wasn't even a full dose at mild growth, I'd see how they could handle it. I really expected I'd see some nute burn, but been watching close since yesterday and so far, neither plant is complaining.

The babies are still on the yellow side, but certainly no worse than yesterday.

I'll try for some pics later when I check PH and take a few clones from the Kush.