Utopian Submarine - 2000W, Indoor, Perpetual

[Grooster]

Good call by Kailpot, a well-oiled machine sounds about right. Stuff coming in, stuff going out. Beautiful plants all day long. What more could you ask for? Always fascinating reading to be had here. Thanks PG.

L8ER

 

[Here To Learn]

Wow I can't believe I just finished reading this whole gigantic journal. I am disappointed that you did not finish your environmental controller but hopefully you will in the future. Your plants are looking great and I am in awe of your ability to track so many different stages at once. Keep up the good work. +rep

 

[Munki]

So much going on in your grow yet it appears to be in capable hands. Good job here Papa Green!

 

[lv420man]

I just ordered this today:

Sentinel - CHHC-1
Cooling - Heating - Humidity - CO2
Controller

Wow, pretty cool do you have a picture of it? You must have been a building engineer or an electrician to play with such toys...

 

[OldMedUser]

Looking good all over the place Papa! I'd love to get some of those toys to play with. As long as I don't have to mess with programming. It's been a long while since my BASIC days. lol

Looking forward to more ground breaking developments!

C'ya

 

[Steve McStoferson]

Genius Papa! I have been trying to figure out how to get such good shots of the trichs and buds, and the closest thing I could find on my Powershot S5 IS was the super macro mode. You've enlightened me to the world of manual zoom, and for that I thank you!

 

[Green Utopia]

Hi all-

Its been hectic around here lately. All's basically well. Had to chop the AK a little sooner than I woulda liked. There were many reasons but basically they came down to #1 - someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse for half the plant, and #2 - I was out of smoke! So she was chopped at about 15% amber. Smoke report in next post.

All else is on track. Update and pic s coming soon. Lemme say my hellos and I'll get lots of pics up from the last week.

Everything looks glorious... .the veg are looks nice and clean and happy, but the flower girls are outrageous.... everything in the appears to be shining with crystal clear trics... "drooling profusely"+reps if i can

yeah - clear trichs are killing me

Some great looking pictures!

Thanks! I take lots, then post those that are fun.

nice work there papa!

Thanks, man. Lovin your work as well. Gotta say I find it almost as interesting to hear about the issues with getting your business going as it is to learn from your grows.

Looking great Papa!

If I had that problem I'd cut off all the bad leaves or at least the bad parts of the leaves. You can always leave the healthy bits to help the plant grow.

Really nice bud porn too!

Keep the green side up!

C'ya L8r.

Thanks! I actually cut the yellow leaves about 2 minutes after the pic. I figured I'd leave them in the pic in case they'd help anyone diagnose something.

I agree with everyone else Papa. Nice work

Thanks!!

The submarine is looking awesome papagreen! One well-oiled machine you got there +reps if I can

Hrmm. Nice of you to say so, but this one is more elbow grease than well oiled me thinks.

working on a new one - where space won't be so silly tight.

Wow I can't believe I just finished reading this whole gigantic journal. I am disappointed that you did not finish your environmental controller but hopefully you will in the future. Your plants are looking great and I am in awe of your ability to track so many different stages at once. Keep up the good work. +rep

I promise I will be doing something with the controller soon. I am thinking I may do just like Stakkur mentioned way back at the beginning of this thing - make a variable speed fan controller. - just gotta figure out what the right thing is to control the voltage to the fan.

Also, I will likely do a temp/hum controller. The CO2 was the only gotcha.I have the temp/hum sensor, and the relays, and logic written.

So - for those interested in the controller - know that it IS back on the radar.

Good call by Kailpot, a well-oiled machine sounds about right. Stuff coming in, stuff going out. Beautiful plants all day long. What more could you ask for? Always fascinating reading to be had here. Thanks PG.

L8ER

Thanks, G! I like the vibe at your house as well. Thanks for stopping by, and someday we'll do it in person.

So much going on in your grow yet it appears to be in capable hands. Good job here Papa Green!

I love your scrog and pictures. Thanks for stopping in! Check back soon for pics of my scrog - starting to bud.

Wow, pretty cool do you have a picture of it? You must have been a building engineer or an electrician to play with such toys...

Pics coming up!

Looking good all over the place Papa! I'd love to get some of those toys to play with. As long as I don't have to mess with programming. It's been a long while since my BASIC days. lol

Looking forward to more ground breaking developments!

C'ya

Yeah - I'll post a little something about the controller - but this one is less than awesome I'm afraid. It is very straight forward. And the so called "Fuzzy-Logic" is not.

But basically - for the price - if you were to get a timer and thermostat for each piece of gear and the co2 sensor - that's the price. So either get it all ala carte or one piece. I'll do another post on the controller but basically this one saves you $100 vs day/nite timers and thermostats and humidistats if you're gonna need all those functions - but on the other hand if one breaks - they all break.

Genius Papa! I have been trying to figure out how to get such good shots of the trichs and buds, and the closest thing I could find on my Powershot S5 IS was the super macro mode. You've enlightened me to the world of manual zoom, and for that I thank you!

Awesome! Those are my favorite types of tips to pass on. So easy. But someone has to tell you to do it before you do it. I was really hoping someone would benefit from that little tip.



THANKS ALL !!!

Pics and Update coming next post.

 

[Aberration]

Although I have checked and read your journal daily, I haven't checked in for some time. Everything looks good, and despite your statement to the contrary you do run a tight ship. I would rep you if I could. I'm still looking forward to the home-brew CO2 controller as well.

 

[Green Utopia]

AK-47 (tall pheno) Smoke Report

The AK-47 (tall pheno) has been chopped and dried. Final weight was a somewhat disappointing 2oz. +- 10g I smoked without weighing.

She was chopped in 3 stages 2 days apart each. Here's the top:

The smoke, however is very good. The person who wanted the other half of the plant wanted a daytime smoke, and that's what this is. A big hit will spin your head and make your face warm. Then if I get moving - I am hyper and its a very uplifting, and jazzy high. Lasts about an hour off a good hit or two. If I don't get moving immediately, however, then an hour later I will be sitting there staring into space asking myself what just happened to the last hour.

The taste and smell are good. It's very straight forward. The smell is musky. Not much bite. My friend has the reputation for coughing at the drop of a hat, and has no problems taking a big hit. I prefer the taste of buds with a little more skunk, but this is very good smoke for someone who doesn't smoke cigs.

So all in all a good plant. I thought there were going to be lots of seeds when I found a few in the first buds, but since then its only been about 4 seeds in an ounce. Still too many for a good mom though. So I'll grow her clone to harvest and seed new ones if/when I want this strain again.

There were some factors that I believe contributed to the low weight, but first let me say that its the grower's responsibility to adress all the things listed next - so these are not excuses - I blame myself.

Early harvest - without crying over spilt milk - I should have resisted harder. 2oz after seeding late November and 44 days of flower was too soon - but it was a test plant after all.

Bad Light - I definitely should have replaced the bulbs before this grow.

Also, I inherited these hoods a while back, and they are really the wrong shape for this space - the vent holes go perpendicular to the way I'd like them hung. The space should be at least a foot wider on each side of the light to maximize their yield.

Bad SCROG. I placed the scrog at the wrong height the first time. This was less detrimental to the AK than others because the AK was tall anyways, but still cost at least 2 bud sites per branch I believe.

Here is the branch that was the focus of the "scrog tutorial".

So here's the blank area in the scrog:

And from the orange scissors on here's what would have grown there. The small trimmers are the site below the scrog, and notice all the distance to the orange handle Fiskars. They are where the branch went through the scrog. Had the entire plant been through, it would have been nice:

Bad Start - the room was literally being assembled around her as she went through each phase. Test group.

Bad Training - the difference between the test group and the current batch of their clones is truly amazing! The small space really forced me to learn some techniques that I should have been applying all along. I think the training will be the biggest factor that improves my yields from now on.

AK Before and After.

5 Weeks from Seed - Mom just harvested

5 Weeks from Clone from the above plant:

OK - gonna medicate - then further updates coming soon!

 

[Green Utopia]

Although I have checked and read your journal daily, I haven't checked in for some time. Everything looks good, and despite your statement to the contrary you do run a tight ship. I would rep you if I could. I'm still looking forward to the home-brew CO2 controller as well.

Thanks, bro!

 

[Green Utopia]

Holding Pattern Update

Its looking more and more like I will be moving the sub in the very near future. Just gotta have a little more room to make the work a little more fun. Not that I'm complaining - I love the time with the plants.

So, with that in mind - here are some update photos.

First - the ones that were the Veg and "Moms". They were crammed down on the right side under the CFLs.

This pic of the Utopia Haze was from about a week ago. Her roots are so dense they can support the weight of the entire plant and 2" pot w/clay. I'm holding her slightly touching the wall so she doesn't fall.

Here's two Utopia Haze. From about a week ago. Utopia Haze on right. The top left is the plant that was burning. I think you'll agree the trouble plant has turned. Although both are still showing tendencies towards the same symptoms, without very strict nutrient checks they seem to yellow a little more quickly than any others have. I'm gonna try and call Barney's for some strain-specific support.

Here's two days ago. They went from filling a 24"x22" area to filling a 24"x48" area almost overnight. Those roots really paid off. And they are still in Veg:

BTW wait til you see the cool shicky-micky 5G E&G system I am/have rigged. MUCH BETTER ROOTS for the big plants predicted!

Here's the scrog a few days ago. Much, much, much better than last time. Six plants instead of 3, lowered the scrog 8" to get more sites, and better training on the plants:

Here's a blurry shot:

Sometimes its not just about roots, but nice stems are good too:

And here's a teaser shot of the Dog Hair. This pic was from a few days ago:

And some of the Kali to wrap things up. BTW - let me ask y'all - does this look like Kali that you have grown or seen? And if so - what's the expected flowering period? Please no-one copy the stats from serious seeds to me - I've already looked. I'm asking for someone who's grown it. I'll get better pics of the whole plant up soon.

And here's another question: See the leaf shading the bud in the next photo - would you trim that leaf?

Hope you enjoy. I'm prolly gonna get more pics tonight of everything. All the pics in this post were 2-10 days old. So prolly another update and more questions coming soon. Also - I'll do a separate post about the controller(s).

 

[usul]

Thank you Papa for the most excellent updates and pictures! Your ScrOG is looking great.

 

[Aberration]

Re: Holding Pattern Update

And here's another question: See the leaf shading the bud in the next photo - would you trim that leaf?

I would tuck it out of the way.

 

[Chameleon1]

Amazing Job as usual! Great turnaround on the problem plant she looks like she will be just fine. That dog hair pic gave me a chubby! Nice work

 

[Propa Gator]

See the leaf shading the bud in the next photo - would you trim that leaf?

Trichs are forming in the shade, but the light puts a head on them. Big, gooey, fragrant resin heads.

 

[OldMedMan]

Papa what a ScrOG That's just plain beautiful
Where do you find the time....do you live in the Sub?

 

[Green Utopia]

Thank you Papa for the most excellent updates and pictures! Your ScrOG is looking great.

Thanks! I'm pretty proud of this one - especially given that I didn't veg in the scrog.

I would tuck it out of the way.

I tried. That pic is not deceiving. It is one blade bud leaf that might as well come from the same spot as that budlet. Its cut or nothing - and there are more places where if it should be done here then it should be done elsewhere.

Trichs are forming in the shade, but the light puts a head on them. Big, gooey, fragrant resin heads.

So, I'm gonna take that as a "cut". Thanks.

Papa what a ScrOG That's just plain beautiful
Where do you find the time....do you live in the Sub?

OMM, you have a great sense of where my real fatigue lies. I had meant to post more of the before and after pics as I did the scrog - but its such a mental thing, I just get fired up then concentrate - and taking pics along the way would break the groove.

I'm gonna take this chance to comment on scrogs for those who've never done one or are considering it.

A ScrOG is a great way to maximize space - IF you maximize the scrog. What I mean is that unless you fill every hole, then you would likely have gotten more yield growing straight up. This is because even if you don't fill every hole, there will be enough leaves to effectively negate any buds below the screen. So you will end up with some nice buds on a few plants, but not the penetration you would get from a vertical grow.

Along those lines - do NOT think that a scrog will save you time or make things easier. Even if vegged in the scrog, with plenty of access, there will still be the period of stretch when you must get in there and weave for a few hours a day. If you do not have a few solid hours to devote every day for a while I would not recommend a scrog. Go with a trellis.

And I will not lie - it gets very stressful bending all those branches. Remember that you basically will have to individually place every single bud where you want it. I have to keep reminding myself to slow down. And I repeat in my head - never make a bad thing worse. I am constantly bending them almost to the point of breaking, and as soon as I feel anything that doesn't seem right - I let go of the branch. Back off and go again.

Also, make sure your scrog maximizes your light area. The 600s I have going have the wrong hoods for this type of space. And the space is only 32" deep. It should be about 48"+. That's about 7 additional square feet in my grow. I am seriously considering using the 400 on a mover to finish this scrog. If I had a single 600 ballast I would have already made the change, but my 600s run on a dual ballast (yet another piece of inherited gear that has been somewhat tricky to work around).

So I definitely like the scrog method, but I have yet to see myself really max it out. I believe this scrog is maxed for density for its size, but I am a little bummed that I don't have the square footage to maximize the lights. So I think the yield numbers will be good for the square footage, but low for the amount of light. So stay tuned, because I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be doing something about that for the next one. I am really on a quest for the 1g/w. I have never bothered with that before, but I think its getting to the point where I can try for good numbers next grow.

Finally, along those lines, and previewing an upcoming update post - I have taken a bunch of clones of the Dog Hair, and will take some of the rest today. It is really nice to be getting to the end of the experimental period. Soon every group will be clones of something I've grown - no more wondering about sex, or flowering period or nutrient levels.

Pics coming soon.

 

[Green Utopia]

Amazing Job as usual! Great turnaround on the problem plant she looks like she will be just fine. That dog hair pic gave me a chubby! Nice work

Heheh. Thanks! I'm likin' that dog hair very much so far. I wish I knew for sure which strain she is. She has perfect growth characteristics for me. If she is good smoke - which I'm feeling pretty good about - then she will become my primary plant I think. Best yield so far, and its looking like about a 60-65 day flowering period - which fits a perpetual harvest nicely. I will need to augment that with some Utopia Haze and Kali Mist - but both of those have ungodly long flowering periods.

Now gonna take this chance to toss out my thoughts on the plants so far:

The Utopia Haze so far seems to be extremely stable and consistent. I love everything about it so far, but that flowering period is daunting.

I got mis-information at the beginning when I started the Kali. I was told she had a short flowering period, and instead have come to find that its likely somewhere between 70-90 days. After literally a few months of research, I am finding that there are many different phenos. This plant was stunted at the beginning, so she's tough to judge from - but I think she's starting to look like the picture from serious seeds, and that would mean she's the long variety. Which is good news and bad. It may mean that she has another 2-4 weeks to go, which could get tricky. But she's so short I think I can get her in anywhere. Confusing plant to say the least. Just along for the ride right now.

The AK-tall is being phased out for right now to simplify. I have seeds for when I want her again. The AK-short has a clone going. I hope the short one doesn't throw a lot of seeds, because I think she's a contender for regular batches. Short flowering period, short plant, good yield. She'll be perfect for either stand-up or scrog.

The Montana clone is coming along nicely. She's now a month old. I still haven't seen or smoked her mom, but I hear its looking like a very nice plant.

I have good clones of the Strawberry Diesel. I hope this plant lives up to what I've been told. Supposedly a 50-55 day flowering period. The yield is low - about 100g/m2 less than the others, but I'm hoping to negate that in a scrog. As you can see by the current scrog, she certainly can fill it. Now we just have to see how big the buds are. The clones are from the plant whose stem is thicker than a quarter. GREAT Genetics on that one. By far the best of 8. So her clones should make for an even better scrog than this one.

 

[Sungod]

To add to what Papa green said. SCROG is a good method of growing, but they do take some practice to get dialed in. Its more than pulling branched through the screen. You have kind of anticipate where and how you think the plant is going to grow so that you can put the branches in the correct hole with out crowding them. There is also the accessibility issue especially in my case watering and inspection is very difficult to do on the plants in the back of the scrog.

You also have to decide the proper height to put the screen and not every plant likes the same height. The wrong height can reduce your yield by putting to many bud sites under the screen

spacing, you have to decide how many plants should go under the screen to many and you run out of room not enough and you wast light.

Flushing, it is difficult to flush a plant that you cannot move to a drain.

Trimming, where, when, and how much to trim can all effect yeild.

Stop training, knowing when to stop pulling the branches through the screen is yet another decision to be made.

I def like using the scrog method and i think that it has the potential to produce good yields, but I agree it will take a long time for someone to get every thing down to get the most out of a scrog. I guessing it would take at least 2-4 grows to get it all dialed in. then each time you change strains the learning curves starts again.

+reps papa

 

[OldMedMan]

Papa and SungodThanks to both of you explaining the real truth about SCROGs. I always thought they were allot of work and now I know for sure.
For someone like me it would have to be elevated so I could walk under it.
That means expensive. So, I don't think I will ever do one, but I still think it's a good way to grow. Optimizing space.

Papa When you write its like standing next to you. Great work.
Now, the experimental stage is over and you have all you need, just as you planned.