Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Strains

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

This is only my two cents.
Your runoff water was pretty low ppm. Try giving full dose of nutrients. They might need some more nitrogen. I have read that it is normal that to lower leaves turn yellow. I would also do a bug check. I googled your problems and the sings are suggesting a watering issue. I wouldn't count out that they are root bound also. It might even be root rot. How Do I Recognize and Prevent Root Rot in Soil?

Check those drainage holes.

I think we've decided to do exactly that, likely tomorrow night for at least the two biggest ones. I think it's a little early in their life for the yellowing to be at all natural, and I'm confident I don't have any bugs, but will grab some of those sticky traps to confirm in the next day or two.

Pretty sure you're right about watering issues, that coupled with Shiggs cold floor I think was the root cause, and I'm just now noticing all the compounded effects of it.

Pots are shit and not going to be used again, hoping they aren't root bound or rotted. Root collars look great.

Looks like calcium lockout from pH being way off, to me. *shrug* soil - who knows!

I dont think I was ever way off on PH, I'd guess somewhere close to 5.5-6.0 on everything since day one, and last was 5.8 in and out. I did some research into my Sunshine #4 and it seems it balances at 5.8-6.0 itself.

Should the next watering be right at 5.8 again? Opinions there would be awesome!

Calcium definciency seems like. Molasses is good for that. Takes 2 weeks to break down in soil so, egg shells grinded down to a powder and top dressed ( go easy). Good luck! Keep up the great work bud.

I'm all chemical right now and fine with it, but looking into "cooking a kit" (yes, real new to researching it) for a near future grow.

Besides, bachelor, so not a lot of molasses or even egg shells around this place. Neither have come with anything I've ordered in this week.

I would add a mild dose of cal-mag to the nutrients since you have it but cut it off a few weeks into flower because it has nitrate. I just got in a chelated calcium phosphate supplement I am going to use that doesn't have any nitrate (maybe small trace amounts). They also need it mostly for the stretch. I would put Britney on a pedestal to get her up and closer to the lights. Keep your yellow fans on as they are a source of nutes for the plant. When they are ready to fall off you will know, the slightest brush will make them fall. Pants being green should just be leftover symptoms from the cold floor. Lets see what they look like this next update.

Hmm, I'll have to research why nitrate is bad while in flower. I was assuming i'd be using my calmag right up they are ready to stop getting any nutes prior to their final flush.

I've been putting off raising them all up to be equal distance, another thing I meant to do, didn't get around to, and negatively affected my grow. Thanks for the push, done.

I tucked the really bad ones at the bottom into the pot so I don't have to look at 'em as much, but of course will take your advice and leave them on until the go themselves. I knew I'd be told that as well, said it last night but still wanted to, ya know? hehehe

I would look into your PH issue first before adding anything. If PH is ok it should unlock Ca.

Not sure I ever had a huge PH issue, but if this soil-less mix is supposed to be treated like hydro for nutes as I've read, then cal and mag are both at 5.8 and I'd be close.

PH first

If you're using tap water, there already exists an abundance of calcium carbonate. Mmmmm!

Vlad

Tap and RO, only recently RO. For this grow I'm guessing I'd just be better off with tap. My tap is around 100ppm and PH 6.5, not bad right?

SO, I'd honestly diagnosed the deficiency as Mag, not Cal. Was reading I think it was Atrain the other day who was saying cal is usually on new growth, and this was on the first and third nodes out.

Got some more learning to do I guess.

Thanks again all. First time parents are such a handful, right?

 

[millertm]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Most Ca issues are PH related. While you are sure PH is ok, your plant is saying something different. Runoff PH is not a good measure of true value. Please don't think I'm being overbearing, but 9/10 times Ca lockout is all PH.

800w HPS 1st grow. Millertm's - Girl Scout/Cinex - Grow Journal - 4'x4'x6.8' Tent - 2015

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I think as you do that a lot of what happened was a compound effect of cold floor and watering issues, they show up now and you have fixed the issues but see the effects on the leaves now. so the corrections may already be there for the issues. I think you are going to have great success.

Nitrate is a growth promoter, and may inhibit flowering and trichome production. So we cut it down and almost out during flowering. Excess N will make really hairy but not resinous buds. Booo. That's why I ordered a chelated calcium phosphate supplement. It has calcium phosphate, magnesium sulphate, amino acids and humic acid. It will solubilize normally not very soluble calcium phosphate and not add Nitrogen I don't want.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Most Ca issues are PH related. While you are sure PH is ok, your plant is saying something different. Runoff PH is not a good measure of true value. Please don't think I'm being overbearing, but 9/10 times Ca lockout is all PH.

I am sorry if that sounded at all dismissed Millertm, definitely didn't mean it that way. I'm sure I had a PH issue, just wasn't sure it was Cal and not Mag, and if I'm reading my stuff right I'm supposed to straddle 5.8 to get both. I think my girls cold feet and sunburns was throwing everything out of whack.

I think as you do that a lot of what happened was a compound effect of cold floor and watering issues, they show up now and you have fixed the issues but see the effects on the leaves now. so the corrections may already be there for the issues. I think you are going to have great success.

Nitrate is a growth promoter, and may inhibit flowering and trichome production. So we cut it down and almost out during flowering. Excess N will make really hairy but not resinous buds. Booo. That's why I ordered a chelated calcium phosphate supplement. It has calcium phosphate, magnesium sulphate, amino acids and humic acid. It will solubilize normally not very soluble calcium phosphate and not add Nitrogen I don't want.

I checked them pretty carefully tonight and can't find any new spots, and the existing spots look exactly the same as yesterday. So I'm going to call it quits on fixes for now and just give them their water and feed when each need it next. NO more artificial schedules that my mind desperately wants to have.

Well, one more thing, I definitely got some pretty deep purple on some of my stems, even up into the leaves. Going to keep an eye on that and post some pics on it tomorrow.

Thanks for the info on flowering and nitrates. I'm planning on doing one more grow nutes next before switching over to my bloom. Read that I should keep up with grow nutes until the stretch is over. Sound right?

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Tonight's pics:


































Same pic, different days.

Yesterday

Today



Pretty obviously looking for some more nutes, so I think I'll go close to full strength grow nutes one more time before switching to bloom.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Ended up giving them a light foliar spraying with some 1/5th strength calmag in it.

 

[Kirupiru]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Some pots do have bad drainage holes. That in mind I drilled holes to all my pots (ok they were all self made pots from what I could gather around my house). I tried to mimic airpots. It has been working good for now. Your girls looked little better in these last pictures. It is so hard to pinpoint what really is wrong.

 

[millertm]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Do not sweat the purple stems. Most all of my fan leaves are purple. What is your tap PH? Post mix? Runoff will always be low due to salts draining out of pots. I got lucky, my tap is 7.8, FF drop's it ~2, so 5.8 was what I was at before it went into deep flower. Now my feed is 6.03, with late flower nuts from FF.

800w HPS 1st grow. Millertm's - Girl Scout/Cinex - Grow Journal - 4'x4'x6.8' Tent - 2015

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Some pots do have bad drainage holes. That in mind I drilled holes to all my pots (ok they were all self made pots from what I could gather around my house). I tried to mimic airpots. It has been working good for now. Your girls looked little better in these last pictures. It is so hard to pinpoint what really is wrong.

Yeah, I wish I would have done something more with those 4 pots before we put them into service. They have four about 3/4 of an inch square drainage holes right at the bottom.

Should have dropped the extra 30 or whatever and got all airpots. Ah well, too late for these girls.

Do not sweat the purple stems. Most all of my fan leaves are purple. What is your tap PH? Post mix? Runoff will always be low due to salts draining out of pots. I got lucky, my tap is 7.8, FF drop's it ~2, so 5.8 was what I was at before it went into deep flower. Now my feed is 6.03, with late flower nuts from FF.

Worst one is the pale and rust spotted one, so it stands to reason it's a PH/cold feet issue mostly. Not sweating much at this point, I've seen some journals with some truly busted up leaves and gigantic buds. A little disappointed they aren't "perfect", but that's my issue, not theirs.

Tap is about 100ppm and about 6,5 PH @ 55f if i remember correctly. I've been bubbling it for at least a day before I use it and that gets it up to around 7.7.

Just finished feeding 5 of them, Droopy is gonna wait for the weekend, and Britney and the Revolver haven't had anything in a week.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

So three of the four original Crop King Seeds Candy Canes and Northern Lights got fed tonight, along with Britney and Rev. All got the same treatment except Droopy, she got 500ml of straight tap and then 500ml of half strength nutes. Just wanted to give the top roots a little something to tide them over till the weekend.

Nearly full strength DNF Grow A + B and Calmag+. Specifically 45ml of A+B per 10L and 11ml of Calmag. Bubbled for an hour to mix and PH'd to 5.7. I figure I've been 5.8 - 6.3ish for most of their lives, so I'd go down a bit this time and get the Ca in 'em.

All we first given about a liter of straight tap water to let the soil get a bit hydrated before I poured in the nutes. All we soaked through with easy 10-15% run off. Made use of my drain table to get them all done at one time. In the past I've worked each one individually and it's taken easy 3-4 hours. Done in 2 this time.

Here's tonight's pics while out of the tent and ready to drink up the goodies:

like dogs begging for treats


Droopy, set off to the side for the majority of the work


Dammmit, first time I've posted sideways pics, too tired to fix tonight
[

Britney, fully recovered


Still Brit


Little Rev is a bit droopier than we're used to seeing her, underwatered at this point


Still Rev


My pale girl, still pale compared to the rest, but not progressing. Rust spots are exactly the same as the first day we spotted them as well


Pale girl, sideways again dammit.




















I did pick the frakkn' cat hair off this after taking the pic.



All including Droopy got a decent foliar spraying of the 1/5 strength calmag i made up for last night's misting.

I think I'm out of the woods, now to find out over the next couple of days if I burned the crap out of them with the nutes.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Opps, forgot to mention that although my tap is 55f when poured, I did have the water up to 70 for the watering. Good enough?

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Looking at page ten and comparing to now they were doing better then and are drooping more now. Are you watering too often? Is there anything you are doing differently now? Do the pot drainage holes smell bad?

I often will stick a finger inside the drainage holes to feel the environment in the bottom of the pot. Not too crazy far just a half inch or so. They just looked like they were doing better but now seem to be continuing the droop and paying behavior which is usually a sign of overwatering. Do they sit in water after watering? Is there water in the suckers that you don't remove?

In the first pic on post 170 where it says they are getting ready to be watered it looks like the soil is dark on top. Is that so? If so they are still too wet to be watered. Overwatering will make the plant pale green because of nitrogen lockout from waterlogged soil.

This grow I have been using ten gallon fabric pots and love them because I can put my hand underneath and feel the wetness level of the soil.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Suckers = saucers. Darn iPhone!

 

[OlderGrower]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

I think Shiggityflip is on to something, I looked at what he was referring to and I agree with him, looks like they have been over watered.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Looking at page ten and comparing to now they were doing better then and are drooping more now. Are you watering too often? Is there anything you are doing differently now? Do the pot drainage holes smell bad?

Besides a light misting with the 1/5th strength calmag two nights ago, they haven't had any water at all since last Thursday (back on page 8), so a full 7 days between waterings.

What's changed since then is the insulated floor (thanks again), leveling off their tops, and switching from the spider to the two marsII 900w LEDs.

I think it's mostly a difference in the time of day I took last night's pictures. I've been taking them right after work, so 5 hours before bedtime. Last's night's were taken just before their usual bedtime.

Drainage holes were all dry, no smell that i noticed (and I have a pretty sensitive sniffer, smelled the girls a good day or two before my room mate) and any roots we could see were white.

In the first pic on post 170 where it says they are getting ready to be watered it looks like the soil is dark on top. Is that so? If so they are still too wet to be watered. Overwatering will make the plant pale green because of nitrogen lockout from waterlogged soil.

It does look like that in the pics, granted. They were so dry on top that when I leveled the tops by raising the pots, my fan on low was picking up medium and drifting it around the tent. Had to drag out the shop vac to clean it up before they went back in.

They were all within 5% of the dry weight of my sample pot used to compare again. Easy to pick up with a thumb on the inside and two fingers out, very minimal deflection of the pot when lifted this way.

I'm reasonably confident that tonight's pictures will look a lot better. They were all perked up when I peeked in on them before work.

This grow I have been using ten gallon fabric pots and love them because I can put my hand underneath and feel the wetness level of the soil.

Bought Smartpot brand fabric pots for the next set of girls and can't wait to get rid of these cheap ones. For my two airpots I packed the soil a little tighter than I should have, but theres a good amount of white roots peeking out the bottom.



Thanks again for all your help.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Just taking care of my peeps. I want to see a good nugular harvest!

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Just taking care of my peeps. I want to see a good nugular harvest!

Very happy to be a peep. Just spent the last hour staring at some nugular future harvest, I think I'm back on track, thanks of course to yourself and everyone that has stuck with me this long.

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Everyone is looking happy to me in tonight's pics, taken right after work and five hours before their bedtime.

Everyone grew at least an inch since last night.









My pale girl, definite improvements


Droopy, finally doing some stretching


Droopy from the side, haven't been able to see through her in a week or two.


Britney, lookin' Fine gurl!





Revolver still droopier than I'd like, but doin' ok I guess.



Some pics across them rather than down, they are praying again for sure.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Yessssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[arteekay]

Re: Arteekay's 1st Grow - Sunshine #4 - Spider x 4 - Crop King Autoflowering Mix Stra

Yessssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nearly exactly my response, glad to hear I wasn't deluding myself.

I was likely a little too dismissive of how much damage had been done with the cold floor, and too optimistic about how quickly they'd recover.

Probably a little too soon to be really thinking about it, but assuming they do well with this heavy grow nutes, I think I'll do a mix of grow and bloom next time.