Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg & More! CFL's - LED - HPS

[jamthe3]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Okay, an "as I progress" question...
when should I (or shouldn't I?) defoliate the leaves under the scrog? I remember KJC saying something about the timing on another thread, but I'll be danged if I can find it now. :-(
Thanks all!

I think most do it as they yellow the first 3 weeks of flowering little by little and then basically "clean house" on lower growth once the stretch is pretty much done. That's what I do atleast. I've read that removing whole branches doesn't seem to shock them as much as removing tons of leaves all at once but I honestly don't know whether that's true or not. I do know that if you're worried about the amount removed all at once, cutting the leaves half off on some (like when cloning) and then coming back for the rest of it a few days later seems not to really affect them to much. I usually just whack em for the most part all at once after 3-4 weeks of flipping myself.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Thanks Jam and Jay. Seems like KJC was saying 21-24 days before harvest...but I've been wanting to get to bassman's thread at some point anyway..perfect excuse. ;-)
I'm assuming the reason for defoliating the lower is to give all of the energy into the budding? Or am I way off on that.
I know that I do that to my flowering bushes outdoors every year, take the yellowed off so the plant can concentrate on newer growth.

 

[PeeJay]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I take an "if it's green it adds to the overall energy scheme of the machine" attitude. When a leaf under the screen is no longer benefiting the plant as a whole, the plant kills it off. It will yellow, get ratty looking and die. I never took any growth off under the screen, yet there is no growth left under it anymore. The plant pruned itself.

There is endless debate about defol. I occasionally pull a fan off that's blocking the light from going where I want it to up high. Leaves under the screen aren't blocking anything from getting light. Fan leaves have a ton of surface area. They are the power plants of the photosynthetic process. Evolution has sorted out the situation for us. When the lower fans aren't producing more energy than they consume, they are toast.

 

[Jay233]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Thanks Jam and Jay. Seems like KJC was saying 21-24 days before harvest...but I've been wanting to get to bassman's thread at some point anyway..perfect excuse. ;-)
I'm assuming the reason for defoliating the lower is to give all of the energy into the budding? Or am I way off on that.
I know that I do that to my flowering bushes outdoors every year, take the yellowed off so the plant can concentrate on newer growth.

Yes you are correct...you are removing foliage that will not produce to allow the plant to focus on the parts that will

You will enjoy bassmans thread...Very interesting and informative

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Thanks Peejay, I plan on spending lots of time with the plants tomorrow morning. I'll take a close look at what's under there, and I am going to look up top too for those larger leaves that may be blocking light.
I haven't taken more than a couple large fan leaves at all during the grow, and it was because they were blocking light. A couple of these girls have some huge fan leaves. LOL Maybe just for the experimentally challenging part of me I will defol a couple and just let the others self prune. ;-)
I have been removing yellowed leaves at the bottoms. So, they do seem to be pruning themselves as you stated.
Rainstacks plants are heavily pruning themselves, but he is doing an outdoor grow. It's cool to see it happen. So far I think he leaves them there until they drop off on their own too.

Why am I hungry for some peanut butter toast now?

 

[PeeJay]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Yes you are correct...you are removing foliage that will not produce to allow the plant to focus on the parts that will

You will enjoy bassmans thread...Very interesting and informative

I've read through Bassmans's thread. It didn't convince me. If I'm dealing with a rose bush or a tree, then it makes sense. I'm not convinced it's the case with an annual. The debate will rage on forever. Tomato growing geeks go round and round about it too. They have tons of ag university scientific yield research behind them and still can decide what's best.

All in all it's probably not a big deal if you clean it out or not - sort of like discussing if pH 6.5 is better than pH 6.6.

 

[shottafire]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Bassman is a guru!

Peejay have you ever defoliated a plant? Just curious.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I was on my way to do the dishes.....and got sidetracked. Could not resist the urge to pop open one of those pollen sacs on the plant. Just to see....why? Cuz It's my plant and I can!!!
I discovered they are no where near producing any pollen yet, there is another hard little seedy like thing inside the outer shell. Good and green yet.
So they have a while before I can go collecting any pollen. I'll try for a pic in the morning maybe, for those who are curious.
The dishes didn't get done. LOL
Have a great night...or day wherever you are!

 

[PeeJay]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Bassman is a guru!

Peejay have you ever defoliated a plant? Just curious.

Obviously not, Shotta. See the "first time grower" in my sig? I read lots and think critically. By expressing my opinion I wasn't in any way taking a shot at Bassman. He gets incredible results and has an amazing intuitive sense about things. His journals are some of my favorites. His communication is first rate.His DWC skills are outstanding. He has things down! There are many reasons Bassman gets the impressive results he achieves.

I've also seen a bunch of folks who have not had as good results when they do heavy defol. For me the jury is still out.

 

[jamthe3]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

RDWC HHT SCROG "If Its Not Broke Dont Fix It" S2 E4 - YouTube

 

[RainStacks]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Thanks Peejay, I plan on spending lots of time with the plants tomorrow morning. I'll take a close look at what's under there, and I am going to look up top too for those larger leaves that may be blocking light.
I haven't taken more than a couple large fan leaves at all during the grow, and it was because they were blocking light. A couple of these girls have some huge fan leaves. LOL Maybe just for the experimentally challenging part of me I will defol a couple and just let the others self prune. ;-)
I have been removing yellowed leaves at the bottoms. So, they do seem to be pruning themselves as you stated.
Rainstacks plants are heavily pruning themselves, but he is doing an outdoor grow. It's cool to see it happen. So far I think he leaves them there until they drop off on their own too.

Why am I hungry for some peanut butter toast now?

I think it is a good idea to prune yellowing leaves indoors because they can attract bugs. I don't worry about it too much indoors as the environment is not even close to sealed up. My dogs probably bring home different bugs daily! I have found that the plants self-prune as well. One factor with defoling below the screen is density of flowers, as well ease of trimming later. Scarfinger69 I think it was did a very good comparison grow, and his results support this idea. He found that when he defloled he got denser bud, but about the same weight. For that reason alone, I like the idea. Early on when I did not have so many leaves, I did occasionally cut the leaf off but leave the petiole. I was told that this method leaves some stored water and nutrients for the plant to take back in, and also makes the plant think it still has the leaf to an extent. I would love to see you do a comparison as well

 

[PeeJay]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I'm a little green noob with a propensity to speak like the Pope. It's shameful. All I know is I no longer have any leaves beneath the SCRoG screen. I pulled them off when they were obviously going to die anyway. You can look at them and see when it's "game over." I watched the first part of the video Jam posted - until I got tired of the dood going on and on about food poisoning. It was pretty funny. I liked his attitude.

He has an "if it's green it feeds the machine" attitude, too. He was openly mocking the folks who were commenting on his videos that it was ratty under the screen and he should lollypop. He was all like, "oh yeah, I could yank this off, and this off, they aren't going to do anything, *yank yank - toss on the floor* but this one is still getting partial light. I'll leave it. The dood turns out some great product with high yields.

 

[PeeJay]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Thanks Peejay, I plan on spending lots of time with the plants tomorrow morning. I'll take a close look at what's under there, and I am going to look up top too for those larger leaves that may be blocking light.
I haven't taken more than a couple large fan leaves at all during the grow, and it was because they were blocking light. A couple of these girls have some huge fan leaves. LOL Maybe just for the experimentally challenging part of me I will defol a couple and just let the others self prune. ;-)

Don't forget the third school of thought on the matter. Some really successful folks chose to bend the light blocking fan leaves down. Pinch the stem on the leaf until it mushes up and move the leaf to where it isn't blocking special parts. Most of the time the leaf bounces right back only it's gimped to one side and down - but still a really healthy factory producing energy for the plant. Sometimes the leaf gets manhandled a little too much and croaks. Meh. So what? Some of the most successful growers here do that with great results.

 

[KingJohnC]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Okay, an "as I progress" question...
when should I (or shouldn't I?) defoliate the leaves under the scrog? I remember KJC saying something about the timing on another thread, but I'll be danged if I can find it now. :-(
Thanks all!

If you would like to defoliate you should do it between days 21-25 when the stretch phase has stopped and again at day 45 if needed.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Thank you all for your input. It's great to see differences of opinions can be had respectfully on this site. LOVE it!
I did watch the video, and I learned a lot of things from it including things that had nothing to do with defol (one was not to get food poisoning. LOL)

My thoughts are that I'm going to defoliate, according the schedule that KJC gave, on the scrawny plant and see how it reacts. It is flowering much more slowly than the rest and I didn't have real high hopes for a great yield on that one anyway. I love a good experiment.
I was going to try to get some pics this morning, but that idea got sideswiped by a wood delivery last night. By the time the girls' lights are on I will be deep in a wood pile. I had two brand new tarps to cover the wood with...they were on top of the remaining wood from last year. The delivery guys were told to put the new wood in the same place. My mistake was not being smart enough to tell them to remove the tarps. DUH! They threw 2 1/2 cords of wood on top of the tarps. I have to go out at daylight and try to dig them out. Can't afford to just go out and buy new ones, and it's raining like a "B" this morning. LOL
Yeah.....ya can't fix stupid.....
Sorry for the rant, some things are just beyond comprehension for me.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I'm confused!!! These look like seeds to me! This is the male I've kept, I broke open one of the pods and it sure looks like seeds to me. Are these supposed to break open and have "bananas" hanging that produce the pollen? I would love to understand that process if anyone can help.
Excuse my ignorance on this...please. LOL

And Btw, has anyone heard from Donpaul.p lately? I haven't seen him post in a while now....kind of unusual for him. Hope he's okay.

 

[jamthe3]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Lol, so how much wood is in a "cord" and how fast could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood? Man, I miss Virginia so much at certain times of the year...geese season, wood chucking season, kill the pumpkin season, etc, etc...

 

[Lady Cannafan]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

And here's an update on the girls:

I really am amazed at the file space this site has for pictures. I hope I'm not using up all the space. LOL

 

[jamthe3]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

I'm confused!!! These look like seeds to me! This is the male I've kept, I broke open one of the pods and it sure looks like seeds to me. Are these supposed to break open and have "bananas" hanging that produce the pollen? I would love to understand that process if anyone can help.
Excuse my ignorance on this...please. LOL

And Btw, has anyone heard from Donpaul.p lately? I haven't seen him post in a while now....kind of unusual for him. Hope he's okay.

Them there are for sure absolutely boys and I seriously doubt (pride keeps me from stating in the absolute in case some mutant proves me wrong a.k.a Arnold Swartzneggar actually becoming someone, despite his actual intelligence...but I digress, in case I end up wrong sums it up, lol) they have seeds in them no matter what the appearance/hope/desire.

Don Paul if I remember right moved back in with his mom; so his absence here briefly could be any one of a number of circumstances; I have the impression that he's very young (early 20's or so) and am rooting for "love" hopefully causing this latest respite as I think I recall the last one almost a year or so ago was a tad more negative..."Go Love!!!" Lmfao

 

[jamthe3]

re: Cannafan's Perpetual Grow White Widow-Master Kush Reveg and More! CFL's/LED/HPS

Seriously Sweety, junk 'em boys. It's ridiculously easy to get seeds from MJ through cloning and stressing down the road for production. If "breeding" is the desire then you probably want the best of both (male and female) to accomplish that. Usually (in my humble opinion/experience) the worst male is usually kept and the best females are showcased as they are not...ie, chopped and showcased.