InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

[Rexer]

I got your original intent before you even added the edit.

Before I moved I was in NW Ohio, that's where the family greenhouse was. Surprisingly, many of the large greenhouses in the country are located there, which makes no sense. Near Lake Erie is like the Seattle of the Midwest, grey skies most days only shittier, colder winters. With cold winters comes huge heat bills in a greenhouse. $3,000 a month for heat was common (1980 dollars). The real big operations were $15,000. Roughly $1,000 a month for every acre you had under glass. At one point, my dad's two uncles owned most of the large greenhouses from Cleveland to Toledo. They were the ones that bankrolled my grandfather which allowed him to buy our greenhouse. One of the two uncles was embezzling money from their company and it forced a bankruptcy situation. Most of the land they were on has since been developed and turned into housing, but the company that bought up their greenhouses is still around and has a giant operation. They supply all the big box stores for about 8 states. Every once in a while I look on Google Maps to see the state of our old business. It's been vacant for a number of years. There's maybe 20% of the greenhouses still standing, the rest have collapsed due to lack of maintenance.

I can't imagine paying heat like that for a year, let alone a month. When you mentioned growing up in a greenhouse, my mind envisioned one much much smaller. I've never even seen a greenhouse the size of what you describe. Even when rereading what you wrote my mind reels at one that size.
Now...pallets of salts makes sense, just the nutrients that you'd go through....knowledge needed to take care of everything....that's an eye opener.

I'm sorry to hear about the embezzling, one of my uncles ruined the family farming business. I understand the frustration, even if it was nowhere near the scale of your family's operations.


Thank you for taking the time to answer back.

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

Many of you know
My tale of woe
That begins to show
When the leaves yel-low.

 

[StoneOtter]

No pics, all thoughts...most of it pretty deep in the weeds. But if you use ProMix or another peat-based substrate, it's worth reading. I also want to tag in @MrSauga, @farside05, and @FelipeBlu to make sure they stop by.



Many of you know
My tale of woe
That begins to show
When the leaves yel-low.

Okay, enough of that. I want to talk about the issue I have of the rising pH of my ProMix HP that seems to affect my grows as I get into flower. My switch from Dr Earth soil to ProMix happened about the same time I went from FF trio to MC (early in 2018). And looking back on it this is where I probably began having a pH that was out of range by the end of flower. No matter what I did I would be losing lower leaves and seeing deficiencies I shouldn't have been having.

Some of that might be related to some of the odd ratios that MC v2 used (high Ca and K), but I have to think that the pH of the ProMix played a role as well. I didn't start checking substrate pH until later on in my growing.

[I hope you've read the first post in my thread about not having to pH our nutrient solutions in a buffered medium because I don't want to re-cover that ground here. If you haven't read it and you're interested, just read the opening post here. We'll wait for you...]

So what is it about MC that doesn't seem to play well with ProMix, as I am not the only one to have had this issue. I've helped out other growers here correct their pH after a slurry test would show it was too high. So I decided to have a conversation about it with my contact at Premier Tech Horticulture, the manufacturer or ProMix.

I asked him why the pH of my medium seems to move out of range so quickly, where people using MC in soil don't seem to have that problem. This was his reply:

[Note: when he says "growing media" he's referring to peat-based like ProMix. Also, edited for clarity.]

"For...soil, the buffer and CEC is much greater than formulated growing media, therefore swings in pH and nutrition are less. Since...soil is highly buffered (depending on its source), it is also more resistance to change. That said, growing media allows growers to manipulate nutrition and pH for plants needs much easier. Managing the fertilizer with the alkalinity of your water is the key to achieving the ideal pH."

This means that soil is less sensitive to both the nitrogen source in the fertilizer (nitrate or ammoniacal), as well as the alkaline content of the water used. But the advantage to "growing media" is that it "allows growers to manipulate nutrition and pH for plants needs much easier." It will respond more quickly to changes you make in response to the plant's needs.

And his recommendation was to use two different types of nutrients in a rotation: two waterings with one higher in ammoniacal nitrogen (like the GrowMore Orchid stuff I use to bring down pH when it gets too high), followed by one watering with a fertilizer high in nitrate nitrogen, like MC. And to continue to monitor slurry pH to make sure it's staying in the correct range (5.5-6.2). He didn't think there was a single blend of the two N types that would work at all strengths.

Now, why would this affect me more than a lot of other growers using MC and "growing media"? Because, as farside mentioned, he and many tent growers are usually harvested by the time the plants are 120 days above ground. In that amount of time (with transplants into new media), the pH hasn't risen far enough to really matter to the plant's health. But mine are just starting flower about then, which is when I start to see the problems crop up.

So...move to a quality soil (like FFHF or Miracle Gro Natures Care Organic Potting Mix) and stick with MC, or move to the alternating system he recommended with ProMix? Farside is thinking that there might be a way to find a blend using MC and ammonium sulfate to keep the pH in check through flower. That blend will allow me to use the ammonium sulfate to add ammoniacal nitrogen (and a sulfur boost like Terpinator without the potassium) to keep the pH in check.

I am going to give that a test with the Jack Herer (now 69 days above soil), so that information will be part of those updates.

If you made it all the way down here, for reading this!

Timing is everything!

 

[InTheShed]

Watered the Summer grow this morning, so I thought I'd update y'all on the larf situation: still being removed.

This came off the Sour G, which has always been prone to larf:

I'll check out the Chiquita Banana tomorrow and see what's going on there. As I mentioned when I thinned, I won't get to #nolarf this harvest, but I'm still trying for what @BeezLuiz is committing to:

I'm trying really hard to #reducethelarf this year

Best I can do on these two!

And for those curious, I will continue to take off larf to within a couple of weeks of harvest. No worries....it all goes into the salve bin. Is anyone here making salve? I don't understand why folks don't do it. That stuff is amazing! Needs more beeswax than in the post though. Next time I make some I'll do a tutorial update.

I hope your week went well and the first weekend of Fall treats you with kindness and respect. Stay safe!




Quotes:

Thanks guys for the very thorough explanation- I'll look at N a little differently from here on in...

Glad to help Carcass! When you look at those charts it really makes you think that most nutrient companies are peddling bro-science for profit.

You're still sitting on that much MC after all this time?

I'm afraid so. I bought it when my grow looked like this (and a lot of those are 10 gallon pots!), but now the 22lbs goes a lot further!

Ammonium Sulfate does seem like the easiest solution in that case.

Thanks farside, it sure is starting to. I found 4lbs of ammonium sulfate on Amazon for about $13 so it's not a heavy lift.

Hello, my name is Farside and I'm a Nute-A-Holic.

Hello Farside.

I just hope to have a big enough operation where I can go to a Greencare or Masterblend type company and have them blend up a fertilizer that is exactly what I want for my given growing conditions.

That would be quite a shift from this:

I'm stuck with these two tiny ass tents.

But given your history, you among us would probably have the best chance!

I've given away bud and edibles to those with medical needs and no means otherwise, and continue to do so.

There's maybe 20% of the greenhouses still standing, the rest have collapsed due to lack of maintenance.

Or lack of funds for the heat bills!

Timing is everything!

It sure is! Thanks Otter.

 

[farside05]

Or lack of funds for the heat bills!

You're not entirely wrong. When my dad sold the place at retirement, he sold it our manager. Her husband was a bit in the lazy side and they were also penny pinchers. About the 2nd year of their ownership, there was a big snow storm. They didn't have a winter crop going, just doing garden plants at that time. Being they didn't have a crop in the greenhouses, they didn't have any heat on. You either have to get up on top of the greenhouses and shovel them off, or run heat so the snow melts. They did neither and 3 of the best greenhouses we had collapsed under the weight of the snow.

 

[LandoC]

Salve what a great idea! I’m in for a tutorial if you make one! Superb way to use up some of the product I have.

 

[InTheShed]

You either have to get up on top of the greenhouses and shovel them off

I never lived in a house that got snow on the roof, but isn't that standard operating procedure after snowstorms?

Salve what a great idea! I’m in for a tutorial if you make one! Superb way to use up some of the product I have.

Howdy LandoC and to my perpetual grow journal! I did link the word "salve" in the post but sometimes that's hard to see on a phone. Here is the link in bold.

The salve doesn't use any bud or trim. It's made from the parts of the plant that aren't used for anything else, like fans (green - not dead), branches, larf, and roots: everything I take off during the grow and what's left at harvest. It won't contain THC (just a bit of THCa from the larf) and it's used for hives, burns, itching, bites, stings, and abrasions. It works so much better than benadryl spray.

 

[West Hippie]

I never lived in a house that got snow on the roof, but isn't that standard operating procedure after snowstorms?

Howdy LandoC and to my perpetual grow journal! I did link the word "salve" in the post but sometimes that's hard to see on a phone. Here is the link in bold.

The salve doesn't use any bud or trim. It's made from the parts of the plant that aren't used for anything else, like fans (green - not dead), branches, larf, and roots: everything I take off during the grow and what's left at harvest. It won't contain THC (just a bit of THCa from the larf) and it's used for hives, burns, itching, bites, stings, and abrasions. It works so much better than benadryl spray.

I book marked it this time , maybe I won’t accumulate so much on hand now .
Thanks InTheShed

 

[InTheShed]

I book marked it this time , maybe I won’t accumulate so much on hand now .
Thanks InTheShed

Thanks WH! The stuff is amazing. The only downside is that coconut oil is pretty expensive, so next time I'll see if sweet almond oil is cheaper (a favorite of @Amy Gardner). That will require even more beeswax though, so lots of testing will be needed!

 

[West Hippie]

Thanks WH! The stuff is amazing. The only downside is that coconut oil is pretty expensive, so next time I'll see if sweet almond oil is cheaper (a favorite of @Amy Gardner). That will require even more beeswax though, so lots of testing will be needed!

I gonna have to go back and read now for sure . One I used grapeseed oil and the next I know I used pumpkin seed oil for the salve .

 

[West Hippie]

I gonna have to go back and read now for sure . One I used grapeseed oil and the next I know I used pumpkin seed oil for the salve .

I didn’t do bud it at anytime. Sucks getting old I did do the coconut oil with country hippie . He called me when I ran to the store to get it to tell me it was six jars instead . He took all of that is maybe why I didn’t remember !

 

[InTheShed]

I save the bud for the topical pain oils, and it takes a lot to get to 15mg/ml! Those are made with either grapeseed or pumpkin/grapeseed 50/50.

I have some sesame seed oil I might try in a small batch of topical oil next time. Seems to absorb really quickly.

 

[Bode]

I always use olive oil or grapeseed oil depending on use. For salve, I use 2 oz cannabis and 2 cups grapeseed oil. cook on low in a crock pot for up to 16 hrs. Strain, add 1/4th by volume of beeswax. Voila, salve. And ITS is right about it working on skin irritations. Great stuff!! Happy Smokin'

 

[InTheShed]

I always use olive oil or grapeseed oil depending on use. For salve, I use 2 oz cannabis and 2 cups grapeseed oil. cook on low in a crock pot for up to 16 hrs. Strain, add 1/4th by volume of beeswax. Voila, salve. And ITS is right about it working on skin irritations. Great stuff!! Happy Smokin'

Thanks Bode! I haven't tested anything close to 25% beeswax by volume though. Is it completely stable at warm room temperatures using that much? Like in the upper 70s?

Also, olive oil isn't recommended for topical pain oil as it's really greasy and most of it doesn't absorb into the skin. That leaves the THC on the skin rather than in it. (I mentioned that once to a former member here and she never spoke to me again!)

Here's an article on differences between some oils:

Making Substitutions to Lotion Bar and Body Butter Recipes

Lotion bar recipes sometimes contain ingredients you'd rather not use. Follow this simple chart to keep the same texture, and use your favorites instead.

joybileefarm.com

 

[Bode]

If your room temp is high 70's, you might add a little more beeswax, not much. I use olive oil for medicine oil (health supplement). Can't hurt, and I have plenty. Happy Smokin'

 

[InTheShed]

I use olive oil for medicine oil (health supplement).

EVOO is Sue's gold standard for medical cannabis intake! Of course, coconut oil will get you high a lot faster...

 

[BeezLuiz]

I know this is old news, but...

let's start with the really sticky CB:

Beautiful frosty buds!!

 

[BeezLuiz]

And since I accidentally hit the "Post reply" button in the previous post, instead of the "Insert Quotes" button, I'll finish my thoughts here.

Is anyone here making salve? I don't understand why folks don't do it. That stuff is amazing!

It won't contain THC (just a bit of THCa from the larf) and it's used for hives, burns, itching, bites, stings, and abrasions. It works so much better than benadryl spray.

I've been meaning to ask about your salve, but this finally reminded me. You make salve with all the non-THC parts of the plant and it works great on all those situations, but doesn't the THC pain salve do the same? I make a THC salve with decarbed trim and/or buds using grapeseed oil and soy wax. My wife and I use it for most of the items you mentioned. Does the non-THC salve have other important ingredients that I'm not aware of?

 

[InTheShed]

I know this is old news, but...
Beautiful frosty buds!!

Thanks BL!

I've been meaning to ask about your salve, but this finally reminded me. You make salve with all the non-THC parts of the plant and it works great on all those situations, but doesn't the THC pain salve do the same? I make a THC salve with decarbed trim and/or buds using grapeseed oil and soy wax. My wife and I use it for most of the items you mentioned. Does the non-THC salve have other important ingredients that I'm not aware of?

I haven't found my high THC topical oil to be effective for the same issues the salve works for. Doesn't seem to eliminate hives or itching or take the ouch out of bee stings and burns, etc. If you find it helps that's great, but mine doesn't. And if it does work on those things for you, it's still much better to use the rest of the plant for the salve and hand it out to your friends. Save the buds for the good stuff!

A no-longer-around member posted this info from Roger Pertwee’s Handbook of Cannabis that quoted historical documents where the hemp plant in oil is recommended for burns.

 

[HashGirl]

Here's an article on differences between some oils:

Making Substitutions to Lotion Bar and Body Butter Recipes

Lotion bar recipes sometimes contain ingredients you'd rather not use. Follow this simple chart to keep the same texture, and use your favorites instead.

joybileefarm.com

And, here on 420 Magazine, you can also read this post in @Magnus8 's Topical thread.