InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

[Jon]

Let me know how it goes and how you set it up? I was thinking maybe it goes on top a perlite res, so that the plant isn't sitting directly in water. I must talk to Gee actually. I might do a comparison in my summer grow, one top water only and one top water swick. Yes, organic.

There you go. That’s a good comparison.

 

[NickHardy]

Try watering to runoff every single feeding from start to finish. Even in the Solos. Betcha it makes a difference. Not that there’s anything wrong. That’s a big difference though. Wow.

I always have every grow, every day, even solo SIPs water to run off!

Always been in coco so easy.

 

[Jon]

Let me know how it goes and how you set it up? I was thinking maybe it goes on top a perlite res, so that the plant isn't sitting directly in water. I must talk to Gee actually. I might do a comparison in my summer grow, one top water only and one top water swick. Yes, organic.

I can tell you now there’s really no setup. I simply let the pot sit right in the tray. I water to runoff till the tray is basically filled. That has only briefly ever taken more than a gallon. I add perlite to my 70/30 base, so I’m likely more like 60/40. My drainage in the pot is supreme. That’s really all I’m doing. I wouldn’t even glorify it by calling it a pseudo-swick. Maybe you can improve on this.

 

[Jon]

I always have every grow, every day, even solo SIPs water to run off!

Always been in coco so easy.

Hmm. Interesting that you get such a big difference. I’m gonna measure the soil plants next feed and see what they come in at. Now you got me all curious.

 

[Jon]

Thank you for letting us play unabashedly in your journal @InTheShed!

 

[InTheShed]

Thank you for letting us play unabashedly in your journal @InTheShed!

I've just been enjoying the conversation so I didn't want to jump in! I'll multi-quote later.

 

[StoneOtter]

I know that whenever I’ve grown soil, whether organic or chem nutes, I always took great pains to clear the drip trays or make sure the plants were up on risers cuz I didn’t want the cloth pots sitting in the runoff. But I a currently growing soil organic, and now I’m considering trying it. PH being irrelevant, how could it hurt? Just cuz the bottom roots would stay wetter than usual? In organics I don’t see how that would be problematic, in fact it’s kinda the point!

Hi Jon, when I'm in soil and pots in pans with runoff, if i'm working on them and there's still water in the pans after a half hour or so I'll either run it right back over the siol again or get rid of it depending on if the soil will accept it or not. It's good stuff in my LOS grows. It's an immediate thing. I won't let it sit and come back tomorrow and use it. That goes out.

 

[InTheShed]

Incoming multi-quote!

Its like The Equalizer crossed with The Big Lebowski awesome

My first clone hand-off was in the parking lot of a Jack in the Box while the drive-through crew watched curiously out their little window!

Oh c’mon! 30 years and you’ve learnt nothing!

No, I've learned loads.

Yep a humble In and Out, all Mrs Shed is after!

That would be for our 31st. I can dress up a bit for three decades' worth!

Get it over with and enter! - that was one handsome plant!

Oh okay...I'll have a look at the competition.

I’m sure with some of the Shedmeister’s imagination that you can create something that’ll be better than a getaway. lol CL.

My forte is definitely not vacation planning.

Happy anniversary Shed! Have a yummy dinner and many more good years together. Beautiful bud shots too!

Thank you Carmen!

Man that Grandpa's Moonshine! She's a beaute to see on your anniversary!

Thanks Otter!

There's nothing better than the love of a good woman!!

Or of my wife...

Congratulations on the harvest, those buds are awesome.

Thanks Jon!

So kief, eh? May I make a suggestion? I can pretty much promise you that you will like your results a lot better if you used a finer screen. I also started doing this with an 80. I got the same thing you got here - kief that is great, but has green from leaf in it. The 80 allows too much leaf matter into the kief, which F’s up the taste. My Trim Bin has a 150 I believe. I bought a small screen at 200 to try it and it’s too small for screening kief. But 80’is too big. So maybe try a 150? If you get the kief with no leaf matter it will come out almost white. This is what you want. The cleaner the better. I do first pass and second pass usually with a batch. I compare the two. Inevitably the second pass is greener, even if only slightly. It shows up well under LED. I try to keep only first pass, or only screen as long as it stays white. Then it goes in bags for edibles. The other hint is, wait until you have a large-ish, super dry batch of trim, then freeze it overnight. In the morning screen it directly out of the freezer. The yield will double sometimes. And it’s the most efficient way I’ve found to max the first pass, ie, the gold. Last thing is, when you screen, I find it most effective to rotate in circles on a pile, while pressing down gently. The key is to not press too hard. If possible you’re trying to get the kief without creating dust. Once it’s ground that small you have no shot at clean end product.

Hope I’m not being too presumptive with these kief screening hints, but I do do it an awful lot as you know. Hope they help, even if you already knew all this.

Not presumptive at all, and I really appreciate the info. If anyone in my family cared I would definitely take the time to get it right, but I have this great 80 mesh hard-bottom screen that fits perfectly over the bowl, so I'm going to save the bubble bags for the next dry ice hash run sometime.

Oh yeah - 2 cents on bottoms watering - with the Pink Rozay this grow, only on this plant, I used no drip tray in the bottom catch tray. I sat the cloth pot of coco directly in the catch tray. I always water coco to runoff, and I tried just watering her once in the morning then letting her suck up the runoff ash the day goes and she could. Every day she drained it by the next morning. I halfway think it’s part of why that plant got so big. No conclusions, but I’ll try it again.

I've never done coco, but I always thought the best coco grows were drain to waste. At least that's what I've read here. Isn't each watering like a mini-flush, clearing out the old nutes? I wouldn't want that sucked back up in coco, and I don't let it happen in soil either.

Don't the numbers go the other way? I thought the 80 referred to the holes being 80 microns.

HG's gotchu ↓↓

Mesh sizes and micron sizes are different. I believe Jon is talking mesh sizes. Here's a good link about them.

HG.

The wicked liquid just being overflow from top watering vanilla style?

Quite the turn of a phrase Nick!

I can sort of think how that might be good or bad.
Good:
Two root systems - normal and hydro! Livin’ the dream!
Bad:
Depends on a bunch of factors.
Medium - Coco - Ph it to say 5.8 in fine but it can come out at 4.0, is this good or bad, maybe it helps the micro nute uptake sitting stewing away there. Maybe it does somewhat less than help and plant dies by Ph witchfuckery.
Medium - Soil - here I like it better, its like a second or third bite of the cherry that accumulates down low to be called on as required? Up those super efficient hydro roots. Or it overwaters and dies.
Any of that make sense?

Some of it must, as the odds of none of it making sense is slim given your experience.

I can tell you that I was taught here that runoff pH is nothing to measure in coco, and I know personally that it's nothing to measure in soil. The only runoff pH that matters is if you are doing a pour-through pH test of soil using distilled water.

And with synthetic nutes, runoff is loaded with old nutes that you want out of the soil rather than sucked back up into the pot. Organic is usually not necessarily watered to runoff, just saturation.

I’m late, but since Mrs. Shed is out of town, she’ll never know! Happy Anniversary Sheds! 5 killer cookies will make a fine anniversary present and judging by those bags, it’ll be the gift that keeps giving.. and giving… and giving.

Late is still good since she's not back until next week, and I'll let her know her present is in a couple of turkey bags smelling up a drawer in the bedroom.

One year we each gave the other a carriage light for either side of the garage door! Of course I was in charge of install and wiring.

Next 420 party at my house!

Roll up!

I know that whenever I’ve grown soil, whether organic or chem nutes, I always took great pains to clear the drip trays or make sure the plants were up on risers cuz I didn’t want the cloth pots sitting in the runoff.

Me too, but I've only grown synthetic.

But I a currently growing soil organic, and now I’m considering trying it. PH being irrelevant, how could it hurt?

Oh good, you said pH was irrelevant. Thank you!

Just cuz the bottom roots would stay wetter than usual? In organics I don’t see how that would be problematic, in fact it’s kinda the point!

I don't think it's problematic in LOS other than the bottom roots not having access to oxygen, but with synthetics I recommend dumping it as mentioned above.

Hmm. Interesting that you get such a big difference. I’m gonna measure the soil plants next feed and see what they come in at. Now you got me all curious.

Measure away, and please change nothing because of your results.

Thank you for letting us play unabashedly in your journal @InTheShed!

Any time Jon! Great conversation.

Hi Jon, when I'm in soil and pots in pans with runoff, if i'm working on them and there's still water in the pans after a half hour or so I'll either run it right back over the siol again or get rid of it depending on if the soil will accept it or not. It's good stuff in my LOS grows. It's an immediate thing. I won't let it sit and come back tomorrow and use it. That goes out.

Thank you Otter! That sounds like a great timetable to live by for LOS runoff. I recall that GeoFlora actually recommends as little runoff as possible with their system, to keep the nutes in the soil.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Incoming multi-quote!



My first clone hand-off was in the parking lot of a Jack in the Box while the drive-through crew watched curiously out their little window!

No, I've learned loads.

That would be for our 31st. I can dress up a bit for three decades' worth!

Oh okay...I'll have a look at the competition.

My forte is definitely not vacation planning.

Thank you Carmen!

Thanks Otter!

Or of my wife...

Thanks Jon!

Not presumptive at all, and I really appreciate the info. If anyone in my family cared I would definitely take the time to get it right, but I have this great 80 mesh hard-bottom screen that fits perfectly over the bowl, so I'm going to save the bubble bags for the next dry ice hash run sometime.

I've never done coco, but I always thought the best coco grows were drain to waste. At least that's what I've read here. Isn't each watering like a mini-flush, clearing out the old nutes? I wouldn't want that sucked back up in coco, and I don't let it happen in soil either.

HG's gotchu ↓↓

HG.

Quite the turn of a phrase Nick!

Some of it must, as the odds of none of it making sense is slim given your experience.

I can tell you that I was taught here that runoff pH is nothing to measure in coco, or soil. The only runoff pH that matters is if you are doing a runoff pH test of soil using distilled water.

And with synthetic nutes, runoff is loaded with old nutes that you want out of the soil rather than sucked back up into the pot. Organic is usually not necessarily watered to runoff, just saturation.

Late is still good since she's not back until next week, and I'll let her know her present is in a couple of turkey bags smelling up a drawer in the bedroom.

One year we each gave the other a carriage light for either side of the garage door! Of course I was in charge of install and wiring.

Roll up!

Me too, but I've only grown synthetic.

Oh good, you said pH was irrelevant. Thank you!

I don't think it's problematic in LOS other than the bottom roots not having access to oxygen, but with synthetics I recommend dumping it as mentioned above.

Measure away, and please change nothing because of your results.

Any time Jon! Great conversation.

Thank you Otter! That sounds like a great timetable to live by for LOS runoff. I recall that GeoFlora actually recommends as little runoff as possible with their system, to keep the nutes in the soil.

A lot of experimentation goes on in this thread. It’s always an interesting read. CL

 

[NickHardy]

I can tell you that I was taught here that runoff pH is nothing to measure in coco, and I know personally that it's nothing to measure in soil. The only runoff pH that matters is if you are doing a pour-through pH test of soil using distilled water.

And with synthetic nutes, runoff is loaded with old nutes that you want out of the soil rather than sucked back up into the pot. Organic is usually not necessarily watered to runoff, just saturation.

Our very first grow 2x Bruce Banner was in Coco using DP Soil Blend. When mixed it was 6.5 and the overflow came out 5.8 every time. Great, brilliant green trouble free plants start to finish. The second grow we switched to the Coco/Hydro DP Blend and expected the same thing, veg was horrible, loads of yellowing, Especially the sativa, Skunk 11, until I started Ph’ing. DP aren’t very forthcoming with what’s actually in there but I think you and a couple of others started talking about perhaps that soil blend of liquid nutes was formulated to self buffer?

Salt build ups in coco are also why my farmer mate recommended the weekly mini flush in coco, just some cal mag and seaweed/fish type product. Here we’re putting in about 10L per pot compared to more like 4L to get runoff for a normal feed. They’re 5 gallon so 20L pots. That means that run off has been there in the pot for days, I just can’t see it having much to offer after that.

Stone’s immediate recycle in soil that buffers sure - have another bite at that cherry!

 

[StoneOtter]

Thank you Otter! That sounds like a great timetable to live by for LOS runoff. I recall that GeoFlora actually recommends as little runoff as possible with their system, to keep the nutes in the soil.

I try for the slightest of runoff. You're right, we don't want it really but the need to have no pockets of dry soil is kept in check this way. I never get the slightest runoff. That really takes all day.

 

[InTheShed]

Stone’s immediate recycle in soil that buffers sure - have another bite at that cherry!

There's no cherry for the plant to bite in the water being sucked back up. That would be with synthetic nutes I would think. He's just making sure there are no pockets of dry soil as those would be the places the sucked-up water goes.

Though "have another bite at that cherry" is an excellent expression!

I try for the slightest of runoff. You're right, we don't want it really but the need to have no pockets of dry soil is kept in check this way. I never get the slightest runoff. That really takes all day.

I hear you. When I first got here and folks were pointing me to the plant watering thread, I gave up reading when I realized how long the process is supposed to take.

 

[Jon]

Incoming multi-quote!



My first clone hand-off was in the parking lot of a Jack in the Box while the drive-through crew watched curiously out their little window!

No, I've learned loads.

That would be for our 31st. I can dress up a bit for three decades' worth!

Oh okay...I'll have a look at the competition.

My forte is definitely not vacation planning.

Thank you Carmen!

Thanks Otter!

Or of my wife...

Thanks Jon!

Not presumptive at all, and I really appreciate the info. If anyone in my family cared I would definitely take the time to get it right, but I have this great 80 mesh hard-bottom screen that fits perfectly over the bowl, so I'm going to save the bubble bags for the next dry ice hash run sometime.

I've never done coco, but I always thought the best coco grows were drain to waste. At least that's what I've read here. Isn't each watering like a mini-flush, clearing out the old nutes? I wouldn't want that sucked back up in coco, and I don't let it happen in soil either.

HG's gotchu ↓↓

HG.

Quite the turn of a phrase Nick!

Some of it must, as the odds of none of it making sense is slim given your experience.

I can tell you that I was taught here that runoff pH is nothing to measure in coco, and I know personally that it's nothing to measure in soil. The only runoff pH that matters is if you are doing a pour-through pH test of soil using distilled water.

And with synthetic nutes, runoff is loaded with old nutes that you want out of the soil rather than sucked back up into the pot. Organic is usually not necessarily watered to runoff, just saturation.

Late is still good since she's not back until next week, and I'll let her know her present is in a couple of turkey bags smelling up a drawer in the bedroom.

One year we each gave the other a carriage light for either side of the garage door! Of course I was in charge of install and wiring.

Roll up!

Me too, but I've only grown synthetic.

Oh good, you said pH was irrelevant. Thank you!

I don't think it's problematic in LOS other than the bottom roots not having access to oxygen, but with synthetics I recommend dumping it as mentioned above.

Measure away, and please change nothing because of your results.

Any time Jon! Great conversation.

Thank you Otter! That sounds like a great timetable to live by for LOS runoff. I recall that GeoFlora actually recommends as little runoff as possible with their system, to keep the nutes in the soil.

Thanks Shed! As far as coco, I’m not sure I agree. My experience is that yes, you always water to runoff, but the point is not to wash out old nutes. You water so often in coco they never get “old.” My understanding is that since coco is hydrophobic, you gotta keep it wettish all the time. I’ve experimented some with not doing so, but that’s a different discussion. So when you feed again, it’s more to maintain the hydro level than to wash out nutes you only added a few hours earlier. I bet you could even get away with a nute water nute water cycle and use the remaining nutes in the medium from the previous feed up all the way before the next feed. Haven’t tried that, but I might sometime. So as usual I’m not sure and not saying I’m “right,” just knocking it around with you.

 

[smokesbetter]

Happy Happy Happy Anniversary !!

 

[CaptainLucky]

There's no cherry for the plant to bite in the water being sucked back up. That would be with synthetic nutes I would think. He's just making sure there are no pockets of dry soil as those would be the places the sucked-up water goes.

Though "have another bite at that cherry" is an excellent expression!

I hear you. When I first got here and folks were pointing me to the plant watering thread, I gave up reading when I realized how long the process is supposed to take.

That’s why I always would get super baked on feeding days because I always get distracted and forget what I’m doing. And it makes me feel soooo good . Lmao CL.

 

[Jon]

That’s why I always would get super baked on feeding days because I always get distracted and forget what I’m doing. And it makes me feel soooo good . Lmao CL.

Lmao! I can relate! When I started out I was weighing the Solos and then again after watering and not watering again til the numbers matched. I was fanatical about it - totally buy into E’s thread. And it took forever. I also lost patience. That’s why I love coco so much - things move so damn fast. And you only have to dump the water in however you want. Nothing slow about it. Lol.

 

[CaptainLucky]

Lmao! I can relate! When I started out I was weighing the Solos and then again after watering and not watering again til the numbers matched. I was fanatical about it - totally buy into E’s thread. And it took forever. I also lost patience. That’s why I love coco so much - things move so damn fast. And you only have to dump the water in however you want. Nothing slow about it. Lol.

True it does take forever but you got to admit that the watering the outside edges grows some amazing roots. I think someday I might try coco. But I’m just content with soil. CL.

 

[NickHardy]

Though "have another bite at that cherry" is an excellent expression!

Pie is always good! American Pie too!

I hear you. When I first got here and folks were pointing me to the plant watering thread, I gave up reading when I realized how long the process is supposed to take.

I put drippers in solos rather than hand water! I hear you!

My experience is that yes, you always water to runoff, but the point is not to wash out old nutes.

Yeah agree totally - our medium is 21 x 20L of coco for the happy coincidence of 420L an average water to run off is 80L daily. Roughly 20% of a 5 Gallon Airpot. I’m pushing stale stuff out - but I can run a 200L flush through too once a week.

 

[Agemon]

True it does take forever but you got to admit that the watering the outside edges grows some amazing roots. I think someday I might try coco. But I’m just content with soil. CL.

I did a few grows in coco, I detest Ph'ing, that's why I switched to the cactus soil, it's fast draining and airy so the roots don't get too wet. And no PH'ing.

 

[KeithLemon]

I did a few grows in coco, I detest Ph'ing, that's why I switched to the cactus soil, it's fast draining and airy so the roots don't get too wet. And no PH'ing.

Agemon if you do not mind me asking what is cactus soil.