InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

[CraZysWeeD]

Is she house clean yet?

I remembered when Ginza was small and just got in from being outside and pooped in the living room behind my favorite chair.

 

[MrSauga]

Hey everybody!
I was doing some lurking around and came across a discussion/argument regarding feeding to runoff. I hear some do 8-10% runoff and others slightly more, but for the most part in that general area.
If you are giving nutes during the feed, what is the benefit to runoff? Is it not just money wasted? I can see it making sense when you want to leach excess nutrients/salts but what's the point in doing it when you are adding nutes?
I know my plants take about 6L of water every two days, in 7gal pots with a bit of runoff. I don't leach my excess salts either, so it's always F-F-F-F up until harvest. The leaching practice is something I'll most likely start to do but just haven't seen a need yet.

 

[Dutchman1990]

Hey everybody!
I was doing some lurking around and came across a discussion/argument regarding feeding to runoff. I hear some do 8-10% runoff and others slightly more, but for the most part in that general area.
If you are giving nutes during the feed, what is the benefit to runoff? Is it not just money wasted? I can see it making sense when you want to leach excess nutrients/salts but what's the point in doing it when you are adding nutes?
I know my plants take about 6L of water every two days, in 7gal pots with a bit of runoff. I don't leach my excess salts either, so it's always F-F-F-F up until harvest. The leaching practice is something I'll most likely start to do but just haven't seen a need yet.

I seldom feed to runoff and I do the same as you F-F-F etc...
only time I do feed to runoff is in my smaller pots but even then it’s only about 10%

I will only flush if there’s a need for it!!

 

[MrSauga]

I will only flush if there’s a need for it!!

Excellent Dutch, thanks. I don't want to confuse flushing with leaching though, if that's what you meant. Apparently. to leach salts and excess nutrients, it's recommended every fourth feeding to give straight water to about 20% runoff. I look at a flush as having overfed or other problem with the medium and needing to get rid of all the bad in there.

 

[Skybound]

Hey everybody!
I was doing some lurking around and came across a discussion/argument regarding feeding to runoff. I hear some do 8-10% runoff and others slightly more, but for the most part in that general area.
If you are giving nutes during the feed, what is the benefit to runoff? Is it not just money wasted? I can see it making sense when you want to leach excess nutrients/salts but what's the point in doing it when you are adding nutes?
I know my plants take about 6L of water every two days, in 7gal pots with a bit of runoff. I don't leach my excess salts either, so it's always F-F-F-F up until harvest. The leaching practice is something I'll most likely start to do but just haven't seen a need yet.

I'm in rockwool, so I don't have the concern about replacing K in the media with Ca. AFAIK, both coco and peat need to have that done prior to putting plants in and I presume it is this reasoning for 10% runoff, as that would prevent that calcium from being flushed out.

If you're talking about soil, the same logic would apply, except to add that it's the soil microbes liberating ions from the soil contents, and it would be unwise to wash those ions out the bottom before the roots can uptake them.

 

[MrSauga]

If you're talking about soil, the same logic would apply, except to add that it's the soil microbes liberating ions from the soil contents, and it would be unwise to wash those ions out the bottom before the roots can uptake them.

Thanks SB. The medium for the most part is a close representation of FFOF. It will hold enough nutrients for about 3 weeks before it needs to be charged with nutes.
Are you talking about the initial prep of coco or peat? Just to clarify I'm talking about regular feed schedules. Feed three times then straight water on the fourth feeding.

 

[Skybound]

Thanks SB. The medium for the most part is a close representation of FFOF. It will hold enough nutrients for about 3 weeks before it needs to be charged with nutes.
Are you talking about the initial prep of rockwool or peat? Just to clarify I'm talking about regular feed schedules. Feed three times then straight water on the fourth feeding.

rockwool only needs to be wetted, but peat and coco need to be precharged with calcium. Your soil has available nutes, but soil microbes make more over time, so flushing the media to the point of runoff would be counter productive to the natural process. If you're ferting the soil with hydro nutes, you're essentially injecting ionic elements which the roots can immediately uptake, but the down side to that is that you're altering the chemistry of the soil and limiting the ability of the soil microbes to influence what that chemistry is. So at that point IMO, you're basically running hydro with dirt as your medium. The Brix kits only fert every other wetting period and never to a lot of runoff. This tells me that it's only preferable to wet the soil, not wash it and let the microbes and roots communicate chemically to uptake nutes that the plant expresses to the microbes that it wants. Roots exude sugary sap stuff that the soil microbes then use to expand their colony which can liberate more soil, so it's a mutually beneficial situation.

Because I make my own nutes from salts, I rely on my eyes to read for deficiencies and such and do my best to give her what I think she wants. As you can see, there's a lot of room for my error there. The relationship between microbes and roots has been evolving for maybe about millions of years, so it's safe to assume they speak each other's language, much like humans and dogs.

 

[MrSauga]

Your soil has available nutes, but soil microbes make more over time, so flushing the media to the point of runoff would be counter productive to the natural process.

This tells me that it's only preferable to wet the soil, not wash it and let the microbes and roots communicate chemically to uptake nutes that the plant expresses to the microbes that it wants.

Perfectly explained, thank you. I'm glad I was never washing away the good stuff. I have to admit I'm starting to understand things a bit more since I didn't even need to ask for a flow chart

 

[Skybound]

Perfectly explained, thank you. I'm glad I was never washing away the good stuff. I have to admit I'm starting to understand things a bit more since I didn't even need to ask for a flow chart

Look into what microbes your soil has, and if none, get some in there. Also, if ferting hard, you might need to one day wash that all out. Some elements attract to one another and get locked up as colloids that can't be uptaken. Soil microbes will break those colloids back apart and releases those ions again. AFAIK, EWC has a lot of microbes and can be top dressed into the soil.

 

[MrSauga]

Look into what microbes your soil has, and if none, get some in there. Also, if ferting hard, you might need to one day wash that all out. Some elements attract to one another and get locked up as colloids that can't be uptaken. Soil microbes will break those colloids back apart and releases those ions again. AFAIK, EWC has a lot of microbes and can be top dressed into the soil.

FFOF is a potting soil, or soiless mix. I'm not using a true LOS or regular soil for that matter. I don't believe there are any microbes in this stuff and adding some I'm not sure would benefit anything for a short term grow.
I would assume, not knowing of course, that microbes are grown with the soil as you cook it. I use Megacrop as my base nute, and it's not an intense program, which is probably why I never found a need to leach out excess salts.
Sorry if I confused the soil/soiless thing.

 

[InTheShed]

Is she house clean yet?
I remembered when Ginza was small and just got in from being outside and pooped in the living room behind my favorite chair.

She woke me up at 3am to go outside to pee, so she housebroke herself!

The leaching practice is something I'll most likely start to do but just haven't seen a need yet.

My feeling is stick to what works, but if you want to try something new, do that and see what happens! I don't follow the advice of the ProMix guy and run clear water to runoff every fourth watering, but I did see a benefit in rinsing the ProMix clean in mid-flower (followed by full strength nutes). Doesn't mean I won't try the FFF Rinse FFF Rinse method. I am burning through a shit-ton of MegaCrop...that would save me some percentage, but math isn't MrS' strong suit so I won't mention it.

So at that point IMO, you're basically running hydro with dirt as your medium.

Are you speaking specifically to FFOF or to all soil or soil-less media? Dirt is a bit generic as a word in this context. Soil will probably have an existing microbe family, where soil-less doesn't. And if we're using synthetic nutes like MegaCrop, the microbes are not significant to the grow.

Perfectly explained, thank you. I'm glad I was never washing away the good stuff. I have to admit I'm starting to understand things a bit more since I didn't even need to ask for a flow chart

A flow chart can be helpful though...

FFOF is a potting soil, or soiless mix.

FFOF is soil, ProMix is soil-less. ProMix is inert where FFOF has nutrients pre-mixed into the soil.

 

[InTheShed]

Here's a bigger plant update for Wednesday! The DTF and the It's It Punch are on the photographic agenda so let's gav a kick.

The DTF is about the only plant I have now that I'll be able to safely get through the shed door come Sept 21st, so yay me on the training .

20190807_080959 DTF.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

DTF

20190807_081014 DTF.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

DTF

20190807_081006 DTF.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

DTF

20190807_083805 DTF.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

DTF bud

The IIP on the other hand, is 4' in diameter and 41" tall.

20190807_083513 IIP.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

It's It Punch

20190807_083528 IIP.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

It's It Punch

20190807_083538 IIP.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

It's It Punch

20190807_083543 IIP.jpg

• InTheShed
• Aug 7, 2019

It's It Punch bud

Both are stacking nicely and are getting 6g/gallon MegaCrop. One more feeding at that weight and I'll bump to 6.5 and see how they like it.

Tomorrow we'll take a look at the AK-47 1.1.1.1.1.1.1 and the Sour G 1.1.1.

I louped the Berry Bomb this morning under grey skies and I'm seeing some amber, and since I'm taking Friday off work I'll take it down then. Time to buy more H2O2!

I hope your skies are not cloudy all day.

 

[Derbybud]

Whatever your doing you best keep doing it. Some outstanding plants you have going. Nicely done.

 

[MrSauga]

but math isn't MrS' strong suit so I won't mention it.

FFOF is soil, ProMix is soil-less. ProMix is inert where FFOF has nutrients pre-mixed into the soil.

Interesting, because I thought unless it had a soil base to it then it was considered soil<.

FFOF Ingredients:
Composted forest humus, sphagnum peat moss, Pacific Northwest sea-going fish emulsion, crab meal, shrimp meal, earthworm castings, sandy loam, perlite, bat guano, granite dust, Norwegian kelp, and oyster shell

I get calling Promix soil<, but to me FFOF in a sense is still soil-less.

 

[Pennywise]

Looking fire shed, that IIP is gorgeous!

 

[InTheShed]

Whatever your doing you best keep doing it. Some outstanding plants you have going. Nicely done.

Looking fire shed, that IIP is gorgeous!

Thanks you two!

Interesting, because I thought unless it had a soil base to it then it was considered soil<.

What?

FFOF Ingredients:
Composted forest humus

If it has humus it's soil. ProMix is peat-based which is what makes is soil-less. FFOF is soil with added nutrients. FFHF is just soil.

I get calling Promix soil<, but to me FFOF in a sense is still soil-less.

I believe that's backwards.

 

[MrSauga]

Oh, so if I look at the def of humus I get this...

Humus is dark, organic material that forms in soil when plant and animal matter decays. When plants drop leaves, twigs, and other material to the ground, it piles up. This material is called leaf litter. When animals die, their remains add to the litter...

So I guess I never looked at is as soil as much as I did that is formed in soil.
No more questions.
Thank you

 

[MrSauga]

soil< meant soil-less... used the < less than sign, it was a math reference

 

[InTheShed]

Anyway, the word SOIL is on the FFOF bag .

 

[StoneOtter]

Perfectly explained, thank you. I'm glad I was never washing away the good stuff. I have to admit I'm starting to understand things a bit more since I didn't even need to ask for a flow chart

I'm told to water and let it run off to an amount that will return to the pot on its own in a half hour. If there's any left I suck it up.