Jandre2k3's Cardboard Flower Box - Test 5: ScrOG Part Deux

[jandre2k3]

I have a question why did you plant those plants on the sides instead of centered inside each medium container? What was your reasoning behind this?

BEAUTIFUL QUESTION! thank you and PLUS REP for that one. been waiting for someone to ask.
Simple... as it grows, the sides get taller where the PAR is less so they're closer to the light, and it's lower in the center where the hotspot is... overall, it kinda evens out the PAR all the way across that way. sides are closer than the center, and such

 

[DankyDavid]

OK so basically your using the lower PAR intensity by placing the plants at the start on the outside edge of the footprint coverage adn as they grow naturally toward the center where the intensity is the strongest it allows for a more well balanced scrog coverage at the end. Am I understanding this correctly? Or is there more to it?

Do you think if you had a stronger light more intense PAR that you would still set it up the same? I think you would only because their is a maximum intensity that can start having negative affect on a grow with LED's so even if you had the max intensity in the center the outer footprint will not be at its max...just some thoughts.. what do you think? I just want to learn from you all and understand why people do what they do. With out such knowledge evolution in technology would stop.

 

[jandre2k3]

OK so basically your using the lower PAR intensity by placing the plants at the start on the outside edge of the footprint coverage adn as they grow naturally toward the center where the intensity is the strongest it allows for a more well balanced scrog coverage at the end. Am I understanding this correctly? Or is there more to it?

Do you think if you had a stronger light more intense PAR that you would still set it up the same? I think you would only because their is a maximum intensity that can start having negative affect on a grow with LED's so even if you had the max intensity in the center the outer footprint will not be at its max...just some thoughts.. what do you think? I just want to learn from you all and understand why people do what they do. With out such knowledge evolution in technology would stop.

Yes! That's exactly it! same concept behind the V-ScrOG. It's not that a stronger light wouldn't need that taller growth, though... Rather, with the light at optimum for the center of the grow, the edges receive less PAR... so I let them grow taller and more toward the light on the edges to try to get better light, on the outer edge.

 

[DankyDavid]

Yes! That's exactly it! same concept behind the V-ScrOG. It's not that a stronger light wouldn't need that taller growth, though... Rather, with the light at optimum for the center of the grow, the edges receive less PAR... so I let them grow taller and more toward the light on the edges to try to get better light, on the outer edge.

I saw some pictures the other day from Light Addict. I saw a picture of his plant that had very long outside growth almost like the outer edges were all center stalks at an even height as the center of the plant. I bet this was because of the same concept as what your doing here....Pretty awesome shit manipulating the plant growth like that!

 

[jandre2k3]

I saw some pictures the other day from Light Addict. I saw a picture of his plant that had very long outside growth almost like the outer edges were all center stalks at an even height as the center of the plant. I bet this was because of the same concept as what your doing here....Pretty awesome shit manipulating the plant growth like that!

Thank you! I've not been growing inside long... most of mine was dirt guerrilla, and some in the garage under a streetlight... this hydro and I are getting along REALLY well thee past few years. Manipulation during veg is where it's at, then just sit back and watch her shine under flower.

 

[DankyDavid]

Can you keep an aye out for any members located in Connecticut. I have a few personal questions I like to ask? I know people on here are from all over the world...lets see if we can find some CT growers. CT has decriminalized MJ and on there way to following the foots steps of everyone else.

 

[Buckshot]

their is a maximum intensity that can start having negative affect on a grow with LED's

What is the maximum intensity?

 

[Buckshot]

Can you keep an aye out for any members located in Connecticut. I have a few personal questions I like to ask? I know people on here are from all over the world...lets see if we can find some CT growers. CT has decriminalized MJ and on there way to following the foots steps of everyone else.
I just want to hook up with someone..its lonely out here all by myself!

I posted for you here...

Connecticut
you might start your own thread there?

 

[jandre2k3]

Good lookin' out, 00! Thanks!

 

[jandre2k3]

I saw some pictures the other day from Light Addict. I saw a picture of his plant that had very long outside growth almost like the outer edges were all center stalks at an even height as the center of the plant. I bet this was because of the same concept as what your doing here....Pretty awesome shit manipulating the plant growth like that!

to better explain what I'm after, here's a pic from part one of the ScrOG testing.


please understand that the "Shaded areas" are really lit, pretty well, but I manipulate the brightness to show where PAR is lacking... notice all those buds are a LOT taller than in the center.



Here's a graph to better visualize the concept... Hot spot in the center, and decreasing PAR toward the outside



The above graph in mind, once the light is at optimum distance from the center tops, anything to the sides of the "hotspot" receive less and less good light. Letting the outer tops grow taller toward the light, they grow closer to the curve of good light. Gimme a sec to graph that...


here... it's rough and definitely not mathematically correct, but here's the idea.



The top is the light source, the bottom is the grow area. See how the PAR lessens toward the edges? Letting the edges grow taller, keeps the tops in the "PAR Curve"

 

[DankyDavid]

to better explain what I'm after, here's a pic from part one of the ScrOG testing.


please understand that the "Shaded areas" are really lit, pretty well, but I manipulate the brightness to show where PAR is lacking... notice all those buds are a LOT taller than in the center.



Here's a graph to better visualize the concept... Hot spot in the center, and decreasing PAR toward the outside



The above graph in mind, once the light is at optimum distance from the center tops, anything to the sides of the "hotspot" receive less and less good light. Letting the outer tops grow taller toward the light, they grow closer to the curve of good light. Gimme a sec to graph that...


here... it's rough and definitely not mathematically correct, but here's the idea.



The top is the light source, the bottom is the grow area. See how the PAR lessens toward the edges? Letting the edges grow taller, keeps the tops in the "PAR Curve"

If I can find a use for this graph can I use it on my website? You are really good at these. absolutely amazing. I am wondering if you would be able to do sort of a video/powerslide version. Something that I can use for my lights that explain in a powerslide with graphs and such the concept of how LED lights and the PAR function and work. Basically showing the concept of how LED lighting actually works in comparison to Lamp bulbs.( like 300/400/600/1,000w light set ups)

What do you think.. let me know if your amazing brain has some ideas for such a video slider.

Man...I am a visual person and graphs and charts for me are bad ass. I can almost understand them better than real life imagery.

 

[jandre2k3]

If I can find a use for this graph can I use it on my website? You are really good at these. absolutely amazing. I am wondering if you would be able to do sort of a video/powerslide version. Something that I can use for my lights that explain in a powerslide with graphs and such the concept of how LED lights and the PAR function and work. Basically showing the concept of how LED lighting actually works in comparison to Lamp bulbs.( like 300/400/600/1,000w light set ups)

What do you think.. let me know if your amazing brain has some ideas for such a video slider.

Man...I am a visual person and graphs and charts for me are bad ass. I can almost understand them better than real life imagery.

The way LED's work in comparison to HPS, is that LED's focus the power into specific wavelengths that are used for the different stages of growth... rather than the "shotgun" effect gotten from incandescent light sources that give a broad spectrum, and waste power on light that is unusable to the plants... Thus HPS actually focuses less energy on the specific wavelengths usable by plants, and thus end up wasting energy on the wavelengths in between... LED's function in a way that was before thought impossible. They give off specific wavelengths of light in a much higher intensity because all of the power goes into those wavelengths, and is not wasted on the "tweeners" that are unusable.

The way the light is shaped, however, is the same in both types of light... more intense in the center, and less to the edges... that's just the nature of the radiation. Unless there is some lens to refract the light and make the edges crisp, and spread the "hotspot" out, the edges will always receive less PAR than the center, and will always curve as in the earlier diagram shows.


Someone let me know if I'm geeking too far out.

 

[DankyDavid]

The way LED's work in comparison to HPS, is that LED's focus the power into specific wavelengths that are used for the different stages of growth... rather than the "shotgun" effect gotten from incandescent light sources that give a broad spectrum, and waste power on light that is unusable to the plants... Thus HPS actually focuses less energy on the specific wavelengths usable by plants, and thus end up wasting energy on the wavelengths in between... LED's function in a way that was before thought impossible. They give off specific wavelengths of light in a much higher intensity because all of the power goes into those wavelengths, and is not wasted on the "tweeners" that are unusable.

The way the light is shaped, however, is the same in both types of light... more intense in the center, and less to the edges... that's just the nature of the radiation. Unless there is some lens to refract the light and make the edges crisp, and spread the "hotspot" out, the edges will always receive less PAR than the center, and will always curve as in the earlier diagram shows.


Someone let me know if I'm geeking too far out.

I can read stuff like that all day my friend..!

I think that is some good content for a artical about "LED vs. HPS PAR output"

 

[jandre2k3]

I can read stuff like that all day my friend..!

I think that is some good content for a artical about "LED vs. HPS PAR output"

hehe, if I only had the equipment to measure specific wavelengths watt for watt HPS vs. LED... THEN I'd have an article.

 

[DankyDavid]

BEAUTIFUL QUESTION! thank you and PLUS REP for that one. been waiting for someone to ask.
Simple... as it grows, the sides get taller where the PAR is less so they're closer to the light, and it's lower in the center where the hotspot is... overall, it kinda evens out the PAR all the way across that way. sides are closer than the center, and such

What is this whole..REP thing... I been hearing that term tossed around and have not figured out its meaning..lol please explain this "Plus REP" meaning.

 

[jandre2k3]

What is this whole..REP thing... I been hearing that term tossed around and have not figured out its meaning..lol please explain this "Plus REP" meaning.

Look up at your name... See he the three emeralds? Hover over them to read something that pops up... Now look at my name/avatar...
See those emeralds? Hover again... That's rep... how you get rep points, is someone clicking the Star at the bottom to the left of your posts.

 

[DankyDavid]

hehe, if I only had the equipment to measure specific wavelengths watt for watt HPS vs. LED... THEN I'd have an article.

yeah..that will never. I dont think it is possible to measure it like that so that an actual comparison can be made.

Its like comparing the a standard system vs metric system. sure they both have the same purpose and application but the measurements are just flat out different and not the same. At least that is sort of a partial imagery description I see in my mind.

the only way to do something like that would be to measure each individual LED specific wavelengths watt. Then trying to measure the specific wavelengths watt for HPS. They are just two different kinds of artificial lighting and they are completely measured differently so my understanding there is no absolute way to measure the two and have an actually comparable system. Which ever scientist figures that out will be know world wide forever!

I could be wrong but....I have not found an absolute way for their to be a comparison aside from just actually using the units and having an experiential comparison.

 

[jandre2k3]

yeah..that will never. I dont think it is possible to measure it like that so that an actual comparison can be made.

Its like comparing the a standard system vs metric system. sure they both have the same purpose and application but the measurements are just flat out different and not the same. At least that is sort of a partial imagery description I see in my mind.

the only way to do something like that would be to measure each individual LED specific wavelengths watt. Then trying to measure the specific wavelengths watt for HPS. They are just two different kinds of artificial lighting and they are completely measured differently so my understanding there is no absolute way to measure the two and have an actually comparable system. Which ever scientist figures that out will be know world wide forever!

I could be wrong but....I have not found an absolute way for their to be a comparison aside from just actually using the units and having an experiential comparison.

there is a way to measure the intensity of specific radiation... We just happen to be able to see this type...

 

[DankyDavid]

Well if you can research and find all the proper equipment that would allow for comparison an exact way of measuring the two units to give a real life applicable comparison please let me know. I would love to acquire such equipment and show the tests on a scientific level and not just through a sponsored grow where a number of things can affect the outcome of a harvest. I have not yet found the right equipment.

 

[jandre2k3]

Hey, 00... I just noticed... Thanks for the rep!