Lush Led vs Advanced Led Featuring Ace of Spades

[ronnie6690]

Good pick ups, have you already been using CO2 i forget?

yes , I was using a timer and a CO2 monitor before. took alot of adjustments to get it right and still not near as accurate.

In two weeks I will receive 3 Advanced Led XTE-300's and we will start flowering

 

[Crawdaddy]

I have to admit i am jealous.

I would love to play with $2400 worth of lights.

Let me know the diode count when you get them , they had it for the DS lights on website, but not on the XTE, looks like only 2 little red(I assume) diodes per cluster in pics, but cant really tell. or if you know already ?

 

[Governmentchz]

jealous.


Glad you're getting that stuff man. You do such a good job, we all benefit.

but I'm still jealous

 

[ronnie6690]

I have to admit i am jealous.

I would love to play with $2400 worth of lights.

Let me know the diode count when you get them , they had it for the DS lights on website, but not on the XTE, looks like only 2 little red(I assume) diodes per cluster in pics, but cant really tell. or if you know already ?

I'm sure they will update the website soon. I have the same info you do , but I will document the lights and their features very well . think i might do some video's too

jealous.


Glad you're getting that stuff man. You do such a good job, we all benefit.

but I'm still jealous

Thanks GC ,

I don't blame you , I have HIGH hopes for these next generation panels

 

[Governmentchz]

I've looked into the CO2, and it's still on my list. I guess in the back of my mind I say the science says it's got to help, as long as I maintain correct levels and temps with little to no leakage then it should have a benefit. But then I see there are a few other things I want/need and the CO2 drops on my list...but still there. I've also wondered if due to the slight positive pressure in the room (all the fan movement in there creates slight compression despite not venting it...yet) there would/could be some backflow into the central AC duct enough to be a problem. When the room is in flower, there are times I can smell "it" in the adjacent bedroom and the most likely way that could happen is if it leached back through the ductwork.

 

[ronnie6690]

I've looked into the CO2, and it's still on my list. I guess in the back of my mind I say the science says it's got to help, as long as I maintain correct levels and temps with little to no leakage then it should have a benefit. But then I see there are a few other things I want/need and the CO2 drops on my list...but still there. I've also wondered if due to the slight positive pressure in the room (all the fan movement in there creates slight compression despite not venting it...yet) there would/could be some backflow into the central AC duct enough to be a problem. When the room is in flower, there are times I can smell "it" in the adjacent bedroom and the most likely way that could happen is if it leached back through the ductwork.

if the A/C system isnt running it could travel in the ducts . I have a window unit A/C which does leak some air , but CO2 is cheap I pay $30 a month CO2. well worth it.

 

[Governmentchz]

Yeah, my hydro store does tank exchange, but I still don't have a regulator nor monitor and I won't vent potentially toxic gas in my house unless I can regulate completely. You've got the hardware for it Ronnie and I'd have to have something similar...one of these days.

 

[ronnie6690]

Yeah, my hydro store does tank exchange, but I still don't have a regulator now monitor and I won't vent potentially toxic gas in my house unless I can regulate completely. You've got the hardware for it Ronnie and I'd have to have something similar...one of these days.

I hear you brother , one upgrade at a time.

 

[skunnymonster]

You've got some hi-tech gear there Ronnie & it all sounds awesome, monitoring your growroom on the phone is way cool

 

[ronnie6690]

You've got some hi-tech gear there Ronnie & it all sounds awesome, monitoring your growroom on the phone is way cool

Thanks skunnymonster , I've been slowly upgrading here and there for years now. the alerts system is cool .

 

[Seraphim]

Interesting.

Yesterday I went and got all I needed to supplement CO2 and today I am thinking that the CO2 thing in a personal grow is not worth the headache.

Balancing temperature with CO2 enrichment in a small tent seems impossible to me. Not to mention I cannot pin down the correct temp plants should be at to take advantage of the CO2. Some places say 90-95*F, anything less and your wasting your CO2. Others say 85*F max. Etc. Add to that the same source claims one needs 7000-10000 Lumens per square feet as well to take advantage of the CO2 enrichment and that leaves me wondering if CO2 in an LED setup is worth it. (?) They also mention nutes but that is not an issue for me.

ronnie6690, you've been using CO2 and you mention its worth the investment. What are your thoughts on the above?

 

[ronnie6690]

Interesting.

Yesterday I went and got all I needed to supplement CO2 and today I am thinking that the CO2 thing in a personal grow is not worth the headache.

Balancing temperature with CO2 enrichment in a small tent seems impossible to me. Not to mention I cannot pin down the correct temp plants should be at to take advantage of the CO2. Some places say 90-95*F, anything less and your wasting your CO2. Others say 85*F max. Etc. Add to that the same source claims one needs 7000-10000 Lumens per square feet as well to take advantage of the CO2 enrichment and that leaves me wondering if CO2 in an LED setup is worth it. (?) They also mention nutes but that is not an issue for me.

ronnie6690, you've been using CO2 and you mention its worth the investment. What are your thoughts on the above?

you never want temps in the 90's , at 90f plants stop all growth and go into survival mode. some misconception is that because lab testing says that plants peek at 1600 ppms @ 85f that you have to run at that to see results. but thats the absolute peek performance.
even at 78f and 1000ppm co2 there is an increase in energy transfer/processing.
Lumens is not a good measurement for grow lighting. it only measures visible light humans see. with Led you should have 35 watt/square foot of high power led panels minimum before using CO2.
for a small tent setup you would have to enrich the whole room the tent is in.

 

[Seraphim]

Thank you ronnie6690.

Those numbers make more sense to me.

 

[Hiker]

Ronnie, there's only one thing with the new advanced light that confuses me & that's the addition of 10w cree diodes. What is the point of them? They are way more powerful than the 3w so does that not kick the balance of the spectrum out of sync & stop you having them at the correct height for the reds & blues to work in their sweet spot? Can you ask them the question of why they were added if you don't know the answer yourself? My sceptical side says they are a gimmick to give them higher par readings & will have no benefit to growing our plants.

the 10w Cree XML are the game changers in the DS350XML IMO. They add the intensity and penetration i've seen from no other led light. White diodes are a mix of many different spectrums, so no balance is upset.
The main problem with Led panels is they lack the intensity and penetration. these diodes address this.

think about it , how do you think plants respond to higher par outputs. par is the light range that plants use for growth. so anything that raises this energy is not a gimmick, and will translate into more energy for growth.

hmmm... I'm not sure I follow the logic here.

I thought skunny was bringing up something I was thinking about as well. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble describing the idea in words...

I'll do my best Each little LED is a tiny emitter of light (photons). Let's leave out spectrum for now. A 3W diode will send out photons with one amount of energy, and a 10W diode sends photons out with more energy. This energy dictates how far that proton can travel and still contain enough usable energy for the plant.

My feeling is that the additional areas the 10W LEDs light up do not "feel" the 3W LEDs at all. Here is an analogy. You have your 1000W HPS and you place a 250W MH right next to it. At 4' away, there won't be much light from that MH, but the HPS energy is there.

We grow indoors folks. Never forget that. It's NOT the Sun. We don't have the same light radiation everywhere. We have a 'band' of growth. Depending on the light, there is an optimal distance range. Ronnie's screen is an acknowledgement of this fact. It's the reason sea of green works so well. IMHO, the brighter LEDs would have an effect inside the 'prime growth band', but I don't really feel there is any benefit outside that band. If they extend that band a little, great! But I don't want to just stretch out that borderline area further, ie popcorn buds. I want to have a solid core band of growth. We are all after 'tops', not bottoms, so who cares how deep the lights go?

Basically, I'm not seeing how mixing LED strength is a good thing. I just purchased some more LEDs and this exact idea went into my decision making process. I started out thinking the same thing, "having some 10W diodes has to be better". I've completely changed my mind now. As evidence, I just placed a wager that I'm right with a purchase of several new LED lights.

I've looked into the CO2, and it's still on my list. I guess in the back of my mind I say the science says it's got to help, as long as I maintain correct levels and temps with little to no leakage then it should have a benefit. But then I see there are a few other things I want/need and the CO2 drops on my list...but still there. I've also wondered if due to the slight positive pressure in the room (all the fan movement in there creates slight compression despite not venting it...yet) there would/could be some backflow into the central AC duct enough to be a problem. When the room is in flower, there are times I can smell "it" in the adjacent bedroom and the most likely way that could happen is if it leached back through the ductwork.

CO2 is required if you're running a sealed room. With a vented room it can be problematic to enrich. It couldn't hurt you to get a meter and see where you're at now. You want to at least make sure you are venting enough to keep it close to the natural ~600ppm. You would be surprised how fast the plants can drop it down to 400.

Interesting.

Yesterday I went and got all I needed to supplement CO2 and today I am thinking that the CO2 thing in a personal grow is not worth the headache.

Balancing temperature with CO2 enrichment in a small tent seems impossible to me. Not to mention I cannot pin down the correct temp plants should be at to take advantage of the CO2. Some places say 90-95*F, anything less and your wasting your CO2. Others say 85*F max. Etc. Add to that the same source claims one needs 7000-10000 Lumens per square feet as well to take advantage of the CO2 enrichment and that leaves me wondering if CO2 in an LED setup is worth it. (?) They also mention nutes but that is not an issue for me.

ronnie6690, you've been using CO2 and you mention its worth the investment. What are your thoughts on the above?

Are you using a bottle or a burner?

I've always understood Cannabis likes temps of 75-85F. If you are enriching CO2, you can get away with a max of 90 or 95F.

If you are using weak lighting, then CO2 enrichment would be pointless. You need to use CO2 when the plant could otherwise photosynthesize more if not for the lack of CO2.

The plants need 4 things: food, water, light, and air. Whichever one of those is in the shortest supply will be the limiting reagent. Let's assume you feed and water well and you have good lighting. That leaves the air. If you vent well, you can keep CO2 @ ~600ppm naturally, but experiments have proven that Cannabis will increase it's growth rate up to about 1500ppm. Most folks aim for ~1200ppm.

 

[Seraphim]

One more question: How about CO2 during veg VS CO2 during flowering. Do you do both or only one? And what is your reasoning behind your choice?

Thanks!!!!

 

[ronnie6690]

Thank you ronnie6690.

Those numbers make more sense to me.

No problem , glad I could help.

 

[Seraphim]

Are you using a bottle or a burner?

I've always understood Cannabis likes temps of 75-85F. If you are enriching CO2, you can get away with a max of 90 or 95F.

If you are using weak lighting, then CO2 enrichment would be pointless. You need to use CO2 when the plant could otherwise photosynthesize more if not for the lack of CO2.

The plants need 4 things: food, water, light, and air. Whichever one of those is in the shortest supply will be the limiting reagent. Let's assume you feed and water well and you have good lighting. That leaves the air. If you vent well, you can keep CO2 @ ~600ppm naturally, but experiments have proven that Cannabis will increase it's growth rate up to about 1500ppm. Most folks aim for ~1200ppm.

Thank you Hiker! I went the bottled co2 with all the gear to manage it.

 

[ronnie6690]

hmmm... I'm not sure I follow the logic here.

I thought skunny was bringing up something I was thinking about as well. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble describing the idea in words...

I'll do my best Each little LED is a tiny emitter of light (photons). Let's leave out spectrum for now. A 3W diode will send out photons with one amount of energy, and a 10W diode sends photons out with more energy. This energy dictates how far that proton can travel and still contain enough usable energy for the plant.

My feeling is that the additional areas the 10W LEDs light up do not "feel" the 3W LEDs at all. Here is an analogy. You have your 1000W HPS and you place a 250W MH right next to it. At 4' away, there won't be much light from that MH, but the HPS energy is there.

We grow indoors folks. Never forget that. It's NOT the Sun. We don't have the same light radiation everywhere. We have a 'band' of growth. Depending on the light, there is an optimal distance range. Ronnie's screen is an acknowledgement of this fact. It's the reason sea of green works so well. IMHO, the brighter LEDs would have an effect inside the 'prime growth band', but I don't really feel there is any benefit outside that band. If they extend that band a little, great! But I don't want to just stretch out that borderline area further, ie popcorn buds. I want to have a solid core band of growth. We are all after 'tops', not bottoms, so who cares how deep the lights go?

Basically, I'm not seeing how mixing LED strength is a good thing. I just purchased some more LEDs and this exact idea went into my decision making process. I started out thinking the same thing, "having some 10W diodes has to be better". I've completely changed my mind now. As evidence, I just placed a wager that I'm right with a purchase of several new LED lights.



CO2 is required if you're running a sealed room. With a vented room it can be problematic to enrich. It couldn't hurt you to get a meter and see where you're at now. You want to at least make sure you are venting enough to keep it close to the natural ~600ppm. You would be surprised how fast the plants can drop it down to 400.



Are you using a bottle or a burner?

I've always understood Cannabis likes temps of 75-85F. If you are enriching CO2, you can get away with a max of 90 or 95F.

If you are using weak lighting, then CO2 enrichment would be pointless. You need to use CO2 when the plant could otherwise photosynthesize more if not for the lack of CO2.

The plants need 4 things: food, water, light, and air. Whichever one of those is in the shortest supply will be the limiting reagent. Let's assume you feed and water well and you have good lighting. That leaves the air. If you vent well, you can keep CO2 @ ~600ppm naturally, but experiments have proven that Cannabis will increase it's growth rate up to about 1500ppm. Most folks aim for ~1200ppm.

I dont agree with you about the 10w diodes, after using the DS350xml for a year now I can tell you the plants under the panel with the 10w Cree's perform better than under the panels with only 3w diodes. also I believe bud sites are activated by light intensity and this is where HPS produces its yields. even if your not worried about penetration , higher intensities at tops will equal larger colas IMO.

everything else I totally agree Thanks for sharing with all of us.

 

[Hosebomber]

The light produced by the diode doesn't have more energy (not exactly at least). The 10 watt diodes produce more photons than the 3 or 5 watt diode does. The number of photons being absorbed is what creates the greater growth. The reasons to use 3 watt diodes over 10 or vise verse is really pretty basic, can I deal with the extra heat created to get more light in this area. If you put a 150 watt panel covering a 2x2 area and then place a 200 watt panel over an area exactly the same (all things being equal) you will get more growth with the 200 watts. The major difference comes in the price. It simply cost more to buy larger diodes and requires a thicker and larger heat sink to properly manage the heat.

 

[ronnie6690]

The light produced by the diode doesn't have more energy (not exactly at least). The 10 watt diodes produce more photons than the 3 or 5 watt diode does. The number of photons being absorbed is what creates the greater growth. The reasons to use 3 watt diodes over 10 or vise verse is really pretty basic, can I deal with the extra heat created to get more light in this area. If you put a 150 watt panel covering a 2x2 area and then place a 200 watt panel over an area exactly the same (all things being equal) you will get more growth with the 200 watts. The major difference comes in the price. It simply cost more to buy larger diodes and requires a thicker and larger heat sink to properly manage the heat.

Thanks Hosebomber for always sharing useful information . +reps