Congrats on the flowers starts .
MotaFina - 2nd Indoor Grow - Damnesia & Special Kush - Supersoil - HID
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- #82
MotaFina
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Preflowers - hard to get a good shot!
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
Nice photo ! This is Great !
You must be so happy that the plants are showing sex maturity by themselves.
Those are horny plants waiting for the 12/12 signal, hahaha !
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- #84
MotaFina
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I'm also getting better at spotting the preflowers. I'd never heard of them before my last grow and really didn't know where to look for them. It seems that some of the things I had read were not correct as far as where to look. Now I know to look in the upper nodes. They're really small but I can pick them out with the naked eye, although a magnifying glass helps.
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- #85
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
I'm searching for new HID bulbs since this will be the second grow on my current bulbs. I'll be replacing them for the next grow. I'm seeing options I didn't know about before and also finding some interesting ideas about light spectrum and MH vs HPS. The idea that has me interested is to run the MH through the 2nd week of flower, then switch to HPS for most of flowering, then switch back to MH for the last few weeks of flowering. I've always switched to HPS on the first day of 12/12 and run HPS through to harvest. Some folks are saying the MH spectrum in late flower leads to higher potency, although slightly lower yield. I'm also looking at different spectrum MHs, like the Sunpulse 10000K, for finishing flowering.
Ideas for experimentation!
Ideas for experimentation!
That will be very interesting MF
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
I found this post interesting...
Red? White? Blue? "Full Spectrum"?
It's mostly about LEDs, but the spectrum principles remain the same.
There now seems to exist some "compensated" MH and HPS bulbs that have some more of the traditionally "lacking" spectrum.
Might be worth a look !
Sooo many theories and things to try !!!
Red? White? Blue? "Full Spectrum"?
It's mostly about LEDs, but the spectrum principles remain the same.
There now seems to exist some "compensated" MH and HPS bulbs that have some more of the traditionally "lacking" spectrum.
Might be worth a look !
Sooo many theories and things to try !!!
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- #88
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Good stuff...thanks BP!
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- #89
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Update day 55 from seed:
I've decided to flip to 12/12 today - about 5 days earlier than planned. I hope to avoid the plants outgrowing the space, although it might already be too late for that. They went 7 days without being watered since the transplant (my daughter brought home a virus from school that put me completely out for two days). The plants were still looking fine, but had slowed down growing a little and had a few dried leaves at the very bottom. I watered them yesterday and they're just exploding now:
The plan is to run the 400w MH bulb for another week with 6 6500K CFLs supplementing, then switch to the 1000w HPS bulb. With the supersoil having been replenished when I repotted, I don't think I'll need to add any nutes for a couple of weeks. At that point I'll start them on the Nectar for the Gods flowering schedule.
So, a question: Would today be considered the first day of flower? Or is the first day the day that I see pistils in the tops (as opposed to preflowers at the nodes)?
I've decided to flip to 12/12 today - about 5 days earlier than planned. I hope to avoid the plants outgrowing the space, although it might already be too late for that. They went 7 days without being watered since the transplant (my daughter brought home a virus from school that put me completely out for two days). The plants were still looking fine, but had slowed down growing a little and had a few dried leaves at the very bottom. I watered them yesterday and they're just exploding now:
The plan is to run the 400w MH bulb for another week with 6 6500K CFLs supplementing, then switch to the 1000w HPS bulb. With the supersoil having been replenished when I repotted, I don't think I'll need to add any nutes for a couple of weeks. At that point I'll start them on the Nectar for the Gods flowering schedule.
So, a question: Would today be considered the first day of flower? Or is the first day the day that I see pistils in the tops (as opposed to preflowers at the nodes)?
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
Hey MF, I cant believe your plants are already that big. I'm sure for you it feels like it's been a long time.
Found another text that might interest you : Light spectrum and plant growth.
It's not the main focus of the article, but they say this about the first day of flower :
Pre-flower – Pre-flower is the period from when the 12/12 flower cycle is first initiated, to roughly the end of the second week (in an 8-week flower), or until the small flowers are prevalent and the rapid growth stretch slows...
Flower – The peak Flower period is generally from week 3-7 and is the time when the plant (stem / leaf) growth stops and all the plant energy focuses on flower production...
My first grow took 11 weeks. If I had started counting the weeks after the "pre-flower" period (instead of when I switched to 12/12) it would have counted as 9 weeks (the spec for Blueberry). I dont know what is more common among growers, but I've seen both (counting from 12/12 and counting from 2-3 weeks after or when pistils appear).
That said, many growing tutorials, and also my link at the beginning of my post, calculate x weeks from 12/12. Breeder's spec (i.e. 8 weeks) seem to be from 12/12 also, but then again many say that it almost always takes longer than the breeder's spec.
So I'd say it's just 2 conventions with people using one or the other.
Spectrum phases : In the article, they mostly seem to go easy on the red spectrum until 2 weeks into flower to minimize stretch, for Top-shelf flower. For maximum bud matter, they instead will use more reds all the way thru the grow. More specifically, for top-quality-buds they aim for Red/Blue ratio of 60/40 in Veg, 70/30 in pre-flower, 80/20 in flower, and dial back the reds for the last 2 weeks (ripening) (70/30 or 60/40).
It's hard to say how this can be applied to the spectrum of your MH and HPS bulbs, but if you are worried of space vs final height of plants, it's possibly wise to do 2 weeks of pre-flower with the MH. If you have some 2700K CFLs (they have real cheap 6-packs at walmart), maybe put those along with your MH to give a bit more reds, and then switch to HPS after 2 weeks ? Switching back to this "blue-ish" setup for the ripening phase could be good also...
I am myself re-thinking how I will mix 6500k and 2700k cfls during the 4 phases of grow. I'll probably use a fraction of 2700s in veg. It will maybe stretch more, but could make LST easier and be better overall. I'll do another mix, prob 50/50 for pre-flower, then mostly 2700 for flower, and 6500Ks for ripening. I found only one person who says he did some experimentation :
I've tried it myself, using just the 6500k, just the 2700k and using a mixture of both during all phases of growth. I found that, in veg, a mixture of the two lamps did the best, followed by 6500k, and 2700k. In flower, I found the exact opposite to be true; 2700k did best, followed by 6500k and strangely, the mixture of the bulbs during flower showed quite a noticeable decrease in growth.
Q: Did you top more than once, and how many tops do you have per plant ? I had 10-12 tops last time, and I'd like to aim for twice that on a next grow, but I dont know if its practical. Those plants grow so dense...
Found another text that might interest you : Light spectrum and plant growth.
It's not the main focus of the article, but they say this about the first day of flower :
Pre-flower – Pre-flower is the period from when the 12/12 flower cycle is first initiated, to roughly the end of the second week (in an 8-week flower), or until the small flowers are prevalent and the rapid growth stretch slows...
Flower – The peak Flower period is generally from week 3-7 and is the time when the plant (stem / leaf) growth stops and all the plant energy focuses on flower production...
My first grow took 11 weeks. If I had started counting the weeks after the "pre-flower" period (instead of when I switched to 12/12) it would have counted as 9 weeks (the spec for Blueberry). I dont know what is more common among growers, but I've seen both (counting from 12/12 and counting from 2-3 weeks after or when pistils appear).
That said, many growing tutorials, and also my link at the beginning of my post, calculate x weeks from 12/12. Breeder's spec (i.e. 8 weeks) seem to be from 12/12 also, but then again many say that it almost always takes longer than the breeder's spec.
So I'd say it's just 2 conventions with people using one or the other.
Spectrum phases : In the article, they mostly seem to go easy on the red spectrum until 2 weeks into flower to minimize stretch, for Top-shelf flower. For maximum bud matter, they instead will use more reds all the way thru the grow. More specifically, for top-quality-buds they aim for Red/Blue ratio of 60/40 in Veg, 70/30 in pre-flower, 80/20 in flower, and dial back the reds for the last 2 weeks (ripening) (70/30 or 60/40).
It's hard to say how this can be applied to the spectrum of your MH and HPS bulbs, but if you are worried of space vs final height of plants, it's possibly wise to do 2 weeks of pre-flower with the MH. If you have some 2700K CFLs (they have real cheap 6-packs at walmart), maybe put those along with your MH to give a bit more reds, and then switch to HPS after 2 weeks ? Switching back to this "blue-ish" setup for the ripening phase could be good also...
I am myself re-thinking how I will mix 6500k and 2700k cfls during the 4 phases of grow. I'll probably use a fraction of 2700s in veg. It will maybe stretch more, but could make LST easier and be better overall. I'll do another mix, prob 50/50 for pre-flower, then mostly 2700 for flower, and 6500Ks for ripening. I found only one person who says he did some experimentation :
I've tried it myself, using just the 6500k, just the 2700k and using a mixture of both during all phases of growth. I found that, in veg, a mixture of the two lamps did the best, followed by 6500k, and 2700k. In flower, I found the exact opposite to be true; 2700k did best, followed by 6500k and strangely, the mixture of the bulbs during flower showed quite a noticeable decrease in growth.
Q: Did you top more than once, and how many tops do you have per plant ? I had 10-12 tops last time, and I'd like to aim for twice that on a next grow, but I dont know if its practical. Those plants grow so dense...
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- #91
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Thanks Blue. This is great info. I think I might change the plan a little and go the first TWO weeks with MH. Another hard decision, but my main focus on this grow is 'top shelf bud'.
And I'll start counting my days of flowering once I see pistils in the tops.
I topped twice. I just counted 14 main tops on the Special K. If I had topped again, they'd probably need one or two more weeks in veg, and they'd be monstrous plants. I'd say that'd be the way to go if I were only keeping one or maybe two plants into flower.
And I'll start counting my days of flowering once I see pistils in the tops.
I topped twice. I just counted 14 main tops on the Special K. If I had topped again, they'd probably need one or two more weeks in veg, and they'd be monstrous plants. I'd say that'd be the way to go if I were only keeping one or maybe two plants into flower.
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- #92
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
The article link wasn't working, looks like the domain got stripped out. But I think I found it anyways - CLW must not be a 420 Magazine sponsor. Like you said there's probably a way to emulate those ratios using the combination of MH, HPS, 6500K CFL and 2700K CFL.
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I figure it might grow quite a large plant if aiming for many tops. I plan to grow only 1 plant, so I should have plenty horizontal space. I'm sure it'll still be a quite a challenge controlling the plant and try to get that many equal tops... But with CFLs, only the top buds get sufficient light, so it's worth a try to maximize my canopy.
14 tops is quite good I think.
Best of luck with the 12/12 !
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- #94
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Update - Day 61 from seed - Day 7 of 'Preflower':
Just a quick update with some photos. Here's the room:
Special Kush #1 back in the corner:
I started doing some minor defoliation on the lowest branches:
And here are some photos of the tops - still no pistils in the tops, so we're still in 'preflower':
I get the feeling I'll start seeing pistils in the next couple of days. I'm seeing some weird blotchy coloring on the very lowest leaves. And these plants don't seem as robust as they should be. The branches seem a little weak. But overall, they're doing fine and growing like crazy. They've probably stretched 4-5 inches since the flip. I think the size will be just right to give me enough head space for keeping the HPS bulb high enough from the canopy...I hope so anyways..lol.
Just a quick update with some photos. Here's the room:
Special Kush #1 back in the corner:
I started doing some minor defoliation on the lowest branches:
And here are some photos of the tops - still no pistils in the tops, so we're still in 'preflower':
I get the feeling I'll start seeing pistils in the next couple of days. I'm seeing some weird blotchy coloring on the very lowest leaves. And these plants don't seem as robust as they should be. The branches seem a little weak. But overall, they're doing fine and growing like crazy. They've probably stretched 4-5 inches since the flip. I think the size will be just right to give me enough head space for keeping the HPS bulb high enough from the canopy...I hope so anyways..lol.
Ive always counted first day of flower when i see pistils at the tops. Remember during the preflower/stretch growth is accelerated so make sure they have plenty of nutrients. I think a lot of growers experience deficiencies during this time frame.
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- #96
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Thanks PW. I watered two days ago and fed them ~1/2 strength Nectar for the Gods 'Early Flower' schedule.
These are some weird nutes. It precipitates so quick that you have to keep swirling the watering pail to keep the organics in solution. Probably impossible to use in hydro. But the plants seem to like the stuff.
These are some weird nutes. It precipitates so quick that you have to keep swirling the watering pail to keep the organics in solution. Probably impossible to use in hydro. But the plants seem to like the stuff.
Cool, i switched to Nuclear Juice and i only use Z7 and Sensizyme as additives. I havent had to use ph down since i started. I like it a lot.
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- #98
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Update Day 64 - Day 10 of 12/12 - Day 1 of flower:
I'm officially calling today day 1 of flowering. I'm seeing a few pistils in the tops now. Here are some pics:
A Special K top:
A Damnesia top:
Special K is looking great:
Here's an example of the blotchy look some of the lower leaves are displaying:
Here's a lower leaf showing possible magnesium deficiency???:
I'm pretty nervous about attempting to supercrop. Here's one branch that I tried to supercrop. Like I said in an earlier post, these branches seem weak - not woody at all. It took very little pressure to cause too much damage for the branch to remain structurally sound. I had to tape it up to save it.
Here's a tent shot:
And here's my curious assistant:
I'm officially calling today day 1 of flowering. I'm seeing a few pistils in the tops now. Here are some pics:
A Special K top:
A Damnesia top:
Special K is looking great:
Here's an example of the blotchy look some of the lower leaves are displaying:
Here's a lower leaf showing possible magnesium deficiency???:
I'm pretty nervous about attempting to supercrop. Here's one branch that I tried to supercrop. Like I said in an earlier post, these branches seem weak - not woody at all. It took very little pressure to cause too much damage for the branch to remain structurally sound. I had to tape it up to save it.
Here's a tent shot:
And here's my curious assistant:
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- #99
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Update - Day 69 from seed, Day 14 of 12/12, Day 6 of flowering:
I've swapped out the MH for the HPS. So the first 2 weeks of 12/12 were on MH. Here's some pics:
They're cruising along. We've still got warm weather, but that's soon going to change. Then I might have more challenges with keeping the tent warm overnight.
I've swapped out the MH for the HPS. So the first 2 weeks of 12/12 were on MH. Here's some pics:
They're cruising along. We've still got warm weather, but that's soon going to change. Then I might have more challenges with keeping the tent warm overnight.
Looking good Mota, dont turn your back on the cat. He looks shady!
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