Recess Is Over - Now To Muck Up The Lesson

[GrizzWald]

The search for the unicorn is very compelling...

Mouser did you just write that?? once upon a time there was a grower.. he lived in a strange land where they had just passed a law, that he was unaware of, that allowed for unicorn breeding. This made the grower very happy.
*bling* turn the page......

 

[CareStaker]

Grizz hit something too. People don't know what they don't know.

Many have not had the elite cuts, so they don't have the context to know if what they are smoking is better or not. They grow out a Smash&Grab seed, and it's slightly better than those 'Chemdog' seeds they bought so it's a win. Many have not had great seeds, and many have not had the real cuts themselves, just the knockoffs or poorly grown examples from the guy.

 

[GrizzWald]

Throw enough darts bound to hit something "but that's what it says on the packet. 55days. 26%. Here look for yourself"

 

[Donvito]

Instead of ripping shit genetics, maybe there is a need for certified stabilised genetics? A non gov. Board?

Sounds like something good to found, I'm sure everyone would try to bug certification .

 

[TheBlaze]

So... I am running 12 reg GG#4 x DMT (sour bubble bx1 ix3). That is a polyhybrid crap shoot right? Add to that the history of GG#4, and how it came about and the odds of getting something decent should be about the same as winning the lottery. Right? Would anyone like to bet on that? I suppose I could grow a freak of nature, that looks the part, stinks to high heaven, yields well and lights your hair on fire when you smoke it, but then you would have to take my word on half of those categories. LOL! So even if I grow a resin covered behemoth that looks like it could melt your face off, everyone could just call BS. I would like to learn, but who the fuck do you believe? All you can do is read, choose what makes sense to you, and then put it into practice. If it works, then you win. Regardless of who says what.

Skunkworkz is able to be wield logic like a weapon. However, I've been following the making of Darlin's Net and so far only 2 phenos seem to present themselves with multiple testers. (If you want to see what I'm talking about, that thread shouldn't be too hard to find) A GG leaning pheno, and a DMT leaning pheno. Both of which look like straight fire and would grace the gardens of just about any grower here. So... how does that work? What am I missing? Do I subscribe to logic, and not bother with anything unless it adheres to some numbers game, or do I try my hand at growing a strain that seems to have a pretty high hit rate which is well documented?

I know pictures can't tell you what the plant smells, tastes or smokes like... but I've sampled some gorilla bubble created by the same guys and it was great. Really great. Is it that far fetched to believe I can achieve the same, or better with similar genetics. Poly-polyhybrid, or not?

What about black widow? I've wanted to grow that strain for a long time, but I'm too fucken scared to touch that stuff. I have searched for a decent grow, but have come up short. That is quite an achievement considering how much time I spend reading grow journals of strains I'm interested in. What's up with that? All I seem to read about it, is that it is disappointing, does not seem to resemble the white widow of the past, and often displays hermie traits. Surely they can't all be talking shit? Where are the grow journals showing awesome resin covered winners? I use this example because of my interest in the strain, and the respect shantibaba gets from you guys. If a breeder makes a cross, and then expects others to weed out the crap and find something decent...well...how is that any different to pollen chucking? That is a legitimate question, and not an attempt to incite a riot. I'm not denying that guys like Neville and Shanti have created legendary strains that have influenced the entire industry. I can't help but notice that in any hobby where passions run high, there will be guys that will defend one camp or the other and discussions can get pretty heated. Makes finding the truth difficult.

I've been wanting to post something like this for a while now, but of course it is just easier to nod and smile. I mean, who wants to make enemies other than skunkworkz? I kind of like his style, but he sure likes to dish it out. LOL! I don't feel guys like Twox deserve to be laughed at.

I'm rambling now, and I suspect I might have lost my point along the way...

Let me end by saying, I'm not trying to pick a fight. Skunk makes some good, logical points. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of grows which seem in stark contradiction to his school of thought. <-- there... that is my point.

 

[GrizzWald]

Yeah, like I said, if your happy with what your got, your not searching for anything so it's kinda pointless to you this conversation.. i understand Skunkworkz passion for scratching his head at these dudes selling mixs that any crew could make and becoming internet heros with them.. im not into them, I got no problem with those that grow them (help them out if I get any seeds of them) why should I care? Really its like caring if somebody has pineapple on their pizza or not. If you enjoy it, go for it, if you don't, let's talk why and come up with our educated thoughts on the subject.. I been smoking 26 years man. Only last five six been growing with breeders beans. Is it alright that I share it's not what I'm after and share the options I've been lead to and the reasoning, or pretend I'm happy with these latest genetics and not discuss other options of old school genetics and particular breeders that were massive at times of when growing plants was an awesome smoke..

 

[TheBlaze]

EDIT: On second thoughts, I'm not going to pollute your thread any further with this. Will send you a mail.

 

[Skunkworkz]

Good discourse is valuable. Opposing opinions often yield interesting middle ground.. And I enjoy the "Devil's Advocate" role I play on some topics.. Hell, someone's got to do it, might as well be me..
As I said earlier, I don't have any beef with any individuals, there's just certain things the "green rush" has brought that I find both puzzling & inherently distasteful. I may be in the minority, and if so, that's really okay with me. I've never been a fan of the status quo. When shite practices replace best practices, in the end it's never good for the populace as a whole. And though I may take a giant . on practices I find dumb.as.fuck I certainly don't think I can have any effect on the bigger picture. However, if my frequently unpopular, sometimes abrasive POV makes people think in directions they haven't before, and maybe opens their mind up to doing a little deeper research, then the time spent being somewhat contrarian was worth it.
Again, my thanks to Grizz, for hosting such a diverse, interesting thread. .


Ok, ️

 

[mouser]

The honest discussion is one of the things I love about Grizz' thread Any little bits I can glean to make my next grow better than the last are always welcome. In truth I have become lazy and really need to tighten up the ship so to speak.

Blaze, I have a couple packs of Black Widow on the way. I'll post as I go

 

[GrizzWald]

I just wanted to drop shit that interests me and let you all know my thoughts on shit. Maybe hoping to find others with similar experiences to share knowledge with and share with those who are interested.. not trying to change nobody's opinion of their plants.. I'm new to all this genetics stuff, not growing, just the seed thing and in all honesty not impressed. Best plants I've found off internet came from crosses friends made or bubba kush and some may say that's an old school strain.. So I've journaled what I've learnt and found, not to be a snob,smug, bully or anything else but to help those on a similar path or are starting to ask questions I've been asking the last few years..

 

[Donvito]

All this discussion is valuable because it makes you ask questions of yourself and what you grow.

If you always follow along blindly, how does one improve.

 

[jandre2k3]

I approve of improvement, but how does one prove improvement and gain approval? Having improved, is approval proof really approved? I'm not sure if I'd seek the approval of others if I'd improved. I've got nothing to prove...

 

[Donvito]

Maybe those improvement are in theory only... maybe you're a great grower with good genetics already.

As long as you're happy with your meds. If not, perhaps these are some of the reasons why.

Be all you can be ..

 

[Skunkworkz]

Regarding Black Widow;

@blaze, There's plenty of shite growers who buy seeds that are out of their equipment &/or skill level to grow, then post up full of salty tears. They're not going to post "My room is a sewer & I'm an idiot who let his timers malfunction & my females reversed!" (Another prime example: One simply does not try to grow Neville's fucking Haze under CFLs. Jeebus.)
The biggest Fail Point in any grow, is the grower.
Okay, so, how to successfully grow Black Widow...
Well, unlike how today's "I bought a single $20 femmd seed it better be fucking stellar!" crowd thinks, it'll require focus & actual work..

Start all 18 seeds.
Label 1-18.
Veg under T5 lighting, and keep it CLOSE to keep the internodes as tight as possible.
Think about wether you're looking for indica expressions, sativa expressions, or a mix. Goes to personal preference.
When the plants are 12", clone each 2x & label correspondingly.
When the clones are rooted, put 1-18 into flower.
Note the date.
Sex 1-18. Discard males & corresponding clones.
Observe early flower characteristics. Get a whiteboard & take lots of notes.
You'll likely see plants that really grab your eye a few weeks in. Rub the stems. Notes notes notes.
At about a month into 12/12 you'll get obvious terps. And you'll be on the way to obvious favorite plants.
In the second month of flower, more observations.
On finish, keep em all separate while drying. Then sample them all before selecting favorites.
Run your favorites a second time, then make your P1 mom selection.

Summary: Start all 18 seeds. Use 1000w HIDs if possible. Run the females 2x before P1 selection.


Selecting P1 moms is hella work. Space & time consuming. But it's rewarding as fuck when you get one that'll last you for decades. I swear.


Ok, ️

 

[GrizzWald]

The part of blaze post where he says twox deserves better.. it's been pissing me off all day.. I don't see where anybody hanging shit on him.. Skunkworkz says he'll be in to defend them, I took that as their own personal thing, conversation in another thread maybe.. now if twox is the breeder, well I had no idea and I see how following comments would offend (internet hero) but none are directed to twox about twox or anything to do with twox. I'm actually referring to icmag dudes mostly.. me and twox, we had our shit, smoked the pipe and all good. So Twox, don't go getting offended on me for no reason man .

 

[TheBlaze]

@Skunkworkz

That is the plan of action with my current veg girls. I would love to see a journal of someone with some experience doing that with black widow. I've literally been lusting for that strain for about 2 years now. I've only recently acquired the space for running regs and pheno hunting. I also need to make money though, as ugly as that sounds, there is no way around that truth. Maybe Mouser can be the great black hope. No pressure Mouser.

 

[TheBlaze]

The part of blaze post where he says twox deserves better.. it's been pissing me off all day.. I don't see where anybody hanging shit on him.. Skunkworkz says he'll be in to defend them, I took that as their own personal thing, conversation in another thread maybe.. now if twox is the breeder, well I had no idea and I see how following comments would offend (internet hero) but none are directed to twox about twox or anything to do with twox. I'm actually referring to icmag dudes mostly.. me and twox, we had our shit, smoked the pipe and all good. So Twox, don't go getting offended on me for no reason man .

Yeah, maybe I read that the wrong way and got my panties in a knot for nothing. I apologise Grizz. I don't normally go for drama, especially on someone else's journal.

Do you still love me bro? No homo.

Skunkworkz, if I was being dense, I apologise to you as well bud. Although some of my questions in the response were legitimate questions though. For instance, I would still like to know how Dnet appears to only throw 2 phenos grow after grow.

Although, not the right journal to be asking questions about a strain I'm running. So ignore that as well. LOL!

Let me quit while I'm behind...

 

[FeralA9X]

Man, i miss out on a couple of days and come back to another good read Blaze, i have a few Black Widow seedlings up right now, couple of months i should have something to flower out which should be decent will be dropping in a whole heap of La Nina tonight to get ready for the outdoor season, thinking of running a widow out there too

 

[redmud]

For growers who don't care for breeding. Even if they pop a few nanners here and there or don't yield as much as others. Couldn't these strains still produce top shelf frosty meds with unique terps and flavors for people looking for a exotic touch of variety? Ive only been growing for a short time but I've gotten 5+ ounces of great bud from some fem seeds in 5 gallon fabric pots of soil. I'm sure some strains yield more but the quality of some of these new hybrids are incredibly frosty and potent. I'm currently testing some IHG and CSI Humboldt gear out now but I do agree with not using fems to breed which seems wrong.

I'm all about the old school strains crossed into the new but I also like some of the new stuff I just gained access to skunk #1 if all these great new strains came from like 10 old strains why not start with the old yourself is my thought, as long as the info provided is true about the seed.
Howzit Grizz

 

[redmud]

I'm not suggesting ANY kind formal regulation at all, just pointing out a great example of the kind of shitshow I've mentioned previously. If this industry was in any way self-policed online the way it used to be, clown shows like the aforementioned wouldn't exist past a few online posts, without copious laughter driving them offline. I mean, holy crap-That anyone *thinks* that's in any way legit as actual breeding, is just baffling to me.

Eh no reason to get worked up brother the knowledgeable will prevail and the fly by nights will be just that, you never know we might get an interesting strain or two from it all, the chances of creating a strain that last through the years is slim just take a look back. Lots of great strains were accidents too though