The Living Medicine Cabinet

[ClosedCircuit]

I'm not sure if I will use it now that I have seen your results. Besides coconut bunches are awfully heavy.

Ideally you dont use it when they are this small. woops I think it may have its place as a supplement during flower, but there are lots of other amendments on the market that can take its place. Its certainly not required.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Hey everybody,

I wanted to get opinions on a possible change to my set up. If you have been reading along I was planning on growing both plants in a single 10 gallon tub...but with C'99 needing some special care now I am thinking it would be best to flower both plants in separate containers. I'm also a little worried that the girls will compete for space. And since 10 gallons isn't really that much room for two plants it might not turn out all that well in the end. Do you all think I am worrying needlessly?

I was thinking about going with 3 gallon geopots (off brand smart pots) because they will fit my space pretty well. The only down side to this is that I don't get to start my no-till off until I eventually run a single strain in the 10 gallon. Though as I type that I don't see why I couldn't do no till in 3 gallon pots.

My plans for the future are that I will do some grows with smaller plants in smaller containers (1/2 gallon?), two strain runs in 3 gallon pots like my last grow, and single strain runs in the no till (I'm specifically thinking about conquering a big ole bastard sativa and then an all indica run to make hash).

 

[Pacific NW]

well....considering your space is so small i actually think 10 gallons is enough for 2 plants. now how much they might compete for space i don't know but i do know that 5 gallons is plenty of dirt for 1 plant. or you can just use 2 5gal pots

 

[ClosedCircuit]

well....considering your space is so small i actually think 10 gallons is enough for 2 plants. now how much they might compete for space i don't know but i do know that 5 gallons is plenty of dirt for 1 plant. or you can just use 2 5gal pots

I went to my local hydro store and they offered me a free 2gallon geopot so I bought another to go with it. I think they are the perfect size. They are about an inch taller than I wanted (yes I have to consider every single inch) but their overall benefits will outweigh the bad (a little tall). I gave the plants a full drench last night in preparation for transplant. Once they dry out a little more in a day or two I will be transplanting into the geopots. I'm excited to see them really take off soon.

I'll post pictures at transplant, but they are both filling out. C99's burned leaves are finally crumbling away. Instead of cutting them ill just let the plant eat those portions and ill remove them once they are completely dry. I'm not sure how well C99 is going to scrog. I was under the impression it would get a little branchy. But after topping it there is only two new nodes...not branches. So we'll see. I may have to train it a bit before the screen goes in.

Afgooey looks like it will scrog just fine. It appears to want to maintain its stout bushy shape, so I may not really have to train it beforehand.

 

[MysterySeeds]

If you can manage the height, I recommend two plants in a larger pot. Just train the plants away from each other. Here are my OG Papayas in a 7-gal pot (methinks). The more soil you can get your plants in, the bigger the plants can become which equates to bigger buds and a larger yield.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

If you can manage the height, I recommend two plants in a larger pot. Just train the plants away from each other. Here are my OG Papayas in a 7-gal pot (methinks). The more soil you can get your plants in, the bigger the plants can become which equates to bigger buds and a larger yield.

I know. You are totally right. But I'm concerned that the two plants have different enough feeding needs that's they should be in separate pots. I still plan to use the 10gallon with a single strain run. I think if I veg a little longer to fill out the scrog, the two gallons should be alright?

 

[MysterySeeds]

I know. You are totally right. But I'm concerned that the two plants have different enough feeding needs that's they should be in separate pots. I still plan to use the 10gallon with a single strain run. I think if I veg a little longer to fill out the scrog, the two gallons should be alright?

I haven't seen this ScrOG or your plants in a few days, but I'm guessing at least a couple of weeks of veg before the flip. They are still seedlings in your last pic.

The 2-gallon pots will do, but the soil capacity isn't enough to support big buds. I grew two Bubblelicious Autos in a gallon and one in a 2-gal fabric pot. They only produced about 42g between the two of them, which is less than I had hoped... then again, I didn't expect to win NOTM with one of them, but it happened. Whatever you choose, I'll support your decision. It's just a personal preference to use bigger pots, says the novice grower that has only grown cannabis in a 1-3gallon pots. Next run, I'm using 5 or 7-gal pots. Trying to max out the buds I can grow in my tiny tent.

Edit: If you're growing in small pots, check out Dr. Ziggy's journal as that's about all he does: DrZiggy's 2nd Journal - ACE Seeds - High Brix - LEDs

 

[MysterySeeds]

Also, get in the mindset that you're feeding the soil and not the plants. If the soil is happy, then the plants will want for nothing... even if there are two different plants with different needs in the same pot.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I haven't seen this ScrOG or your plants in a few days, but I'm guessing at least a couple of weeks of veg before the flip. They are still seedlings in your last pic.

The 2-gallon pots will do, but the soil capacity isn't enough to support big buds. I grew two Bubblelicious Autos in a gallon and one in a 2-gal fabric pot. They only produced about 42g between the two of them, which is less than I had hoped... then again, I didn't expect to win NOTM with one of them, but it happened. Whatever you choose, I'll support your decision. It's just a personal preference to use bigger pots, says the novice grower that has only grown cannabis in a 1-3gallon pots. Next run, I'm using 5 or 7-gal pots. Trying to max out the buds I can grow in my tiny tent.

Edit: If you're growing in small pots, check out Dr. Ziggy's journal as that's about all he does: DrZiggy's 2nd Journal - ACE Seeds - High Brix - LEDs

I get what your saying. That's why I was originally going to go with the 10 gallon. But I will save it for now.

I do follow ziggy. He is partially my inspiration for going a little smaller. He pushes his plants and they hit the top end of what they could produce in the size containers he is using. I believe he is using pots that are less than 1 gallon. That's another reason why I am not too worried. If I veg for long enough I think everything will play out.

Growing in a small space is a challenge. I think its actually harder than growing plants out that are a few feet tall or taller. I want to try all the possible options with this system. That means trying all kinds of different sizes and types until I hit the sweet spot.

Also, get in the mindset that you're feeding the soil and not the plants. If the soil is happy, then the plants will want for nothing... even if there are two different plants with different needs in the same pot.

I am very much in that mind set. That said, I can't ignore that one plant is clearly more nute sensitive than the other. I need to nurse it back to health. I don't think sticking them in the same container will be ideal for that. That's just the way I see it.

I appreciate you sharing your opinions though! You are a great grower. So don't sell yourself short!

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Its time for the transplant!

- 2 Gallon Geopots. Check
- Soil mix. Check
- BioAg Vam Endo Mix. Check
- Molasses. Check
- Bell's Oberon. CHECK!!!

LET'S DO THIS!

If you all haven't checked out the Vam mix by BioAg it is entirely Glomus. Most importantly, 104 propogules/gm of Glomus Intradices. Its a 100 gram bag. Its priced really well too...I'll be using only this in the future. I have found a couple other purely Glomus inoculants that are pretty cheap I can share with you guys if any one is interested.

Afgooey's root ball wasn't too bad. I still haven't gotten a hold of maxing out the small pots during germination. Even after 30 days...jeez. I don't know if it was the lights or the Calcium deficiency that stalled them out...pretty disappointing.

C99's root zone was nothing to speak of so I didn't take a picture...

After dumping some inoculant in the pot and topping everything off, we have reached our final destination.

.

I mixed about a tablespoon of molasses with a liter of water and split it between both pots to give the soil life a little kick. I'll probably water again in an hour or so to make sure the pots are fully drenched. After that they will have both had about one liter a piece.

Also a couple nights ago I mixed about a gallon of Sphagnum Peat Moss into my soil mix to bring the PH down. after sitting for a day it tested at 6.5. PHEW!! Glad that's under control. I'll keep testing periodically to make sure it stays constant until I am comfortable its under control.

So that's it. I'll let the girls do their thing. They are back under the LED. Hopefully now that they have some room to kick around they won't be so slow going. I'm going to be really pissed if they stall out again because the LED is too much for them. ERRRR. Just thinking about it is stressing me out. I can't even smoke because all I have is the dirt weed I got....so sad. Who would even consider this smokeable? They didn't even dry the the stuff. Just tossed it in a bag. Absolutely no thrichomes that I can see.

I'll take another sip and go cook some dinner. Have a good night, I'll see you around

 

[tabor]

One other thing to think about when planting two plants to a pot is what happens when you have a plant that is male or hermies? Even if you cut the plant you're stuck with the old root system in the pot.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

One other thing to think about when planting two plants to a pot is what happens when you have a plant that is male or hermies? Even if you cut the plant you're stuck with the old root system in the pot.

That's a great point. Maintenance was indeed a big reason I am going with two. If I need to pull one of them out of there its going to get ugly Its already bad enough with a scrog. I can't move the plants at all once they are trellissed out.

 

[MysterySeeds]

The sweet spot...

Growing in a small space is a challenge. I think its actually harder than growing plants out that are a few feet tall or taller. I want to try all the possible options with this system. That means trying all kinds of different sizes and types until I hit the sweet spot.

Ditto.

I can't ignore that one plant is clearly more nute sensitive than the other. I need to nurse it back to health. I don't think sticking them in the same container will be ideal for that. That's just the way I see it.

Nurse schmurse! Trial by fire, I say.

You are a great grower. So don't sell yourself short!

I know I am.

Until next time, be well CC.

 

[Pacific NW]

you know cc you could always make extract with that dirt weed...or edibles. when i used to live in TX i would get an ounce of dirt
for $50 and i would make oil out of it. no clue on what it got as a return in terms of weight but it was farm better than smoking myself into a head ache

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Hello friends and lovers.

I did a little maintenance today. Afgooey got topped at the 4th node. C99 has already had an unsuccessful topping that didn't take. I will wait for it to develop one more node before I cut it again. Id like to put some space between the burned leaves at the bottom of the plant and the next topping.

Right before all this I made a malted barley tea, and applied about 200ml per plant. My thinking is that the influx of cytokines would help to heal the plants faster by encourage cell division - getting those new branches popping out a little faster. Maybe that's bullshit, We'll see. Seemed like it made sense at the time.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

No pictures, but just a quick update.

I just topped C'99 at the newest node. It still looks a little rough - definitely putting it through its paces. But if the breeder info is worth a damn then it is supposed to be a resilient strain.

Afgooey is still recuperating, but I can see the beginnings of two new branches poking out. So ya, all progress is good. Even if its slow. I think it could even take another topping down the line. Could be a really good producer.

I hit the soil with a kelp/fish drench:

1000ml of water
2 teaspoons of kelp meal
1 teaspoon fish hydrolysate
1.5 teaspoon molasses

Just mix all the ingredients (I'm using a graduated spray bottle), shake it up, and let it sit. Once it sits 10 minutes I shake it up again and apply it - mash and all. I should be brewing with an air tone at the very least. I wanted to wait one more week before I hit the plants with a full blown tea (24hr. min brew)...you know, make sure they were really established.

Its incredibly important that plants receive water with good amounts of dissolved oxygen. After CoOrg and Dr. Cannabi left no one else here put much thought into how they were brewing their teas. Vortex type brewers typically help to dissolve much more oxygen into water than an airstone. The bubbles from an airstone do not oxygenate the water, but instead its happening where the bubbles rupture the surface. Vortex brewers are alot more efficient at doing that without the need for an air stone. I got some solid advice from a friend who touts even just plain watering and foliar with highly oxygenated water can improve a plants performance...so that's become a project for the near future though...

I just split it between the two plants, doing short 2-3 second pours until the soil was drenched. The thinking with this drench is that we create a good baseline of beneficial nutrients with the kelp meal, put a little more phosphorous into the soil in a form that can be mobilized by microbes, and provide food for the hyphae community I am trying to cultivate.

A note on Phosphorous in the soil:

Soil P is found in different pools, such as organic and mineral P (Fig.1). It is important to emphasize that 20 to 80% of P in soils is found in the organic form, of which phytic acid (inositol hexaphosphate) is usually a major component (Richardson, 1994). The remainder is found in the inorganic fraction containing 170 mineral forms of P (Holford, 1997). Soil microbes release immobile forms of P to the soil solution and are also responsible for the immobilization of P. The low availability of P in the bulk soil limits plant uptake. More soluble minerals such as K move through the soil via bulk flow and diffusion, but P is moved mainly by diffusion. Since the rate of diffusion of P is slow (10−12 to 10−15 m2s−1), high plant uptake rates create a zone around the root that is depleted of P.

Plant root geometry and morphology are important for maximizing P uptake, because root systems that have higher ratios of surface area to volume will more effectively explore a larger volume of soil (Lynch, 1995). For this reason mycorrhizae are also important for plant P acquisition, since fungal hyphae greatly increase the volume of soil that plant roots explore (Smith and Read, 1997). In certain plant species, root clusters (proteoid roots) are formed in response to P limitations. These specialized roots exude high amounts of organic acids (up to 23% of net photosynthesis), which acidify the soil and chelate metal ions around the roots, resulting in the mobilization of P and some micronutrients (Marschner, 1995).

source

The bit about cultivating hyphae might shed more light on what I am trying to do here. I'm going to be amending with more inoculant in the future. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do it tonight. I applied as much of the kelp mash from the Tea as possible, then top dressed with extra soil mix. It would have been good to get the inoculant in there between the new layer of soil, but I'll just have to coordinate with another topdress.

That's about it for tonight.

I'm wicked burnt out right now on some very dank Sour D from a Denver. Its funny, I was all down about that dirt bud I was telling you all about...a literally 2 nights later I am surprised with some very smelly heady stuff.

Things could be worse.

 

[TheRoach]

That was a very nice update ClosedCircuit, I really like what you did with the tea. A vortex brewer sounds cool. Mind sharing a pic of one and explaining a bit more about it? I have been aching to do an upgrade in my tea brewer. I will get a hobbyist microscope soon, would be interesting to check the before and after pictures, I really want to see by myself what's going on!

 

[SweetSue]

I love stopping at your place and learning about soil. That deserved reps +. I need to get back to doing that myself.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yes I second the request for info on the vortex brewer. I have no idea what that is. I use rainwater for my grow and lately I've been tossing a bubbler in the barrel just for the heck of it.
I do feel like a bubbler must oxygenate the water somewhat by it's movement if nothing else. But that's just a feeling. I think I know a way to test it, unscientifically. Take two containers of drinking water- let it sit for a while - bubble one of them- and drink some of each. It's quite easy to tell by taste when water has lost its oxygen and gone 'flat'. I tried an experiment once I read about where I poured a glass of 'flat' water back and forth from one cup to another. After a minute or so I tasted it and it was obviously better than it had been a minute before.
As for its effect on the plant - I don't know how to test or quantify that but it can only be a good thing I think.

 

[SweetSue]

Yes I second the request for info on the vortex brewer. I have no idea what that is. I use rainwater for my grow and lately I've been tossing a bubbler in the barrel just for the heck of it.
I do feel like a bubbler must oxygenate the water somewhat by it's movement if nothing else. But that's just a feeling. I think I know a way to test it, unscientifically. Take two containers of drinking water- let it sit for a while - bubble one of them- and drink some of each. It's quite easy to tell by taste when water has lost its oxygen and gone 'flat'. I tried an experiment once I read about where I poured a glass of 'flat' water back and forth from one cup to another. After a minute or so I tasted it and it was obviously better than it had been a minute before.
As for its effect on the plant - I don't know how to test or quantify that but it can only be a good thing I think.

What an interesting experiment. I'll have to try that. Tomorrow. Right now, I need to go to bed.

Good night Weaselcracker. I'd say goodnight to CC, but he's already asleep.