Utopian Submarine - 2000W, Indoor, Perpetual

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Awesome - that's helpful to know. It seems there are lots of folks doing it with success - and their reaction is why doesn't everyone do this. Its like someone started a bad tradition a long time ago and it caught on. So we'll see I guess.

I did a bit of research on it, and there are certainly other plant types that have been cloned from clones for thousands of years - grape vines being the first example, and I just read about a bush that had been cloning itself for thousands of years in a California desert since it had been isolated from others of the same species and was unable to sexually reproduce.

As fas as cannabis, I was not able to find any specific research, only anecdotal evidence... which is typically conflicting. However, I found nothing that gave any real, scientifically based reason why cannabis can't be cloned over and over. It's the same plant - even the term "mother" is misleading, since the clones are not offspring, but extensions of that same plant, just with new roots growing in a different spot.

Good thread Whiskey Papa!

 

[Green Utopia]

I saw a tissue culture kit for like 250$ The site looked kinda crappy but I saw the same company in a couple grow mags... It seems cool but to expensive for my blood at this point.

That's definitely outside my experimental range right now. But... tell me more I mean I know a little about what tissue culture is (in fact two months ago I happened to be someplace where they were building human ears in a machine in front of me - it was straight out of sci fi movie). And I know a little about why you would want to do it in a lab with cannabis. But how would a home medical user take advantage?

 

[Green Utopia]

I did a bit of research on it, and there are certainly other plant types that have been cloned from clones for thousands of years - grape vines being the first example, and I just read about a bush that had been cloning itself for thousands of years in a California desert since it had been isolated from others of the same species and was unable to sexually reproduce.

As fas as cannabis, I was not able to find any specific research, only anecdotal evidence... which is typically conflicting. However, I found nothing that gave any real, scientifically based reason why cannabis can't be cloned over and over. It's the same plant - even the term "mother" is misleading, since the clones are not offspring, but extensions of that same plant, just with new roots growing in a different spot.

Good thread Whiskey Papa!

Whooly crap that's a great summary - I read for like 8 hours and you just encapsulated all of it!

Had to edit cause that bit about the isolated plant in the desert is an awesome little bit of info. I really find its that kind of stuff that fills in soooo many little gaps in my understanding. A nice practical example is soooo cool.

And BTW I've tried to +rep all of you.

 

[OldMedMan]

Whooly crap that's a great summary - I read for like 8 hours and you just encapsulated all of it!

Had to edit cause that bit about the isolated plant in the desert is an awesome little bit of info. I really find its that kind of stuff that fills in soooo many little gaps in my understanding. A nice practical example is soooo cool.

And BTW I've tried to +rep all of you.

OBX does it again

Hi WP

I copied that to a file as soon as I read it. Now, I think I'll be trying Clones. Everyone (well almost everyone) has trouble with them. I think this is as fool proof as possible. Well, done OBX

 

[Stealthy1]

That's definitely outside my experimental range right now. But... tell me more I mean I know a little about what tissue culture is (in fact two months ago I happened to be someplace where they were building human ears in a machine in front of me - it was straight out of sci fi movie). And I know a little about why you would want to do it in a lab with cannabis. But how would a home medical user take advantage?

(From Wiki)

Modern plant tissue culture is performed under aseptic conditions under filtered air. Living plant materials from the environment are naturally contaminated on their surfaces (and sometimes interiors) with microorganisms, so surface sterilization of starting materials (explants) in chemical solutions (usually alcohol or bleach) is required. Mercuric chloride is seldom used as a plant sterilant today, as it is dangerous to use, and is difficult to dispose of. Explants are then usually placed on the surface of a solid culture medium, but are sometimes placed directly into a liquid medium, particularly when cell suspension cultures are desired. Solid and liquid media are generally composed of inorganic salts plus a few organic nutrients, vitamins and plant hormones. Solid media are prepared from liquid media with the addition of a gelling agent, usually purified agar.
In-vitro tissue culture potato explants

The composition of the medium, particularly the plant hormones and the nitrogen source (nitrate versus ammonium salts or amino acids) have profound effects on the morphology of the tissues that grow from the initial explant. For example, an excess of auxin will often result in a proliferation of roots, while an excess of cytokinin may yield shoots. A balance of both auxin and cytokinin will often produce an unorganised growth of cells, or callus, but the morphology of the outgrowth will depend on the plant species as well as the medium composition. As cultures grow, pieces are typically sliced off and transferred to new media (subcultured) to allow for growth or to alter the morphology of the culture. The skill and experience of the tissue culturist are important in judging which pieces to culture and which to discard.

As shoots emerge from a culture, they may be sliced off and rooted with auxin to produce plantlets which, when mature, can be transferred to potting soil for further growth in the greenhouse as normal plants. reference: Plant tissue culture: theory and practice By Sant Saran Bhojwani, M. K. Razdan
[edit] Choice of explant

The tissue obtained from the plant to culture is called an explant. Based on work with certain model systems, particularly tobacco, it has often been claimed that a totipotent explant can be grown from any part of the plant. However, this concept has been vitiated in practice. In many species explants of various organs vary in their rates of growth and regeneration, while some do not grow at all. The choice of explant material also determines if the plantlets developed via tissue culture are haploid or diploid. Also the risk of microbial contamination is increased with inappropriate explants. Thus it is very important that an appropriate choice of explant be made prior to tissue culture.

The specific differences in the regeneration potential of different organs and explants have various explanations. The significant factors include differences in the stage of the cells in the cell cycle, the availability of or ability to transport endogenous growth regulators, and the metabolic capabilities of the cells. The most commonly used tissue explants are the meristematic ends of the plants like the stem tip, auxiliary bud tip and root tip. These tissues have high rates of cell division and either concentrate or produce required growth regulating substances including auxins and cytokinins.

Some explants, like the root tip, are hard to isolate and are contaminated with soil microflora that become problematic during the tissue culture process. Certain soil microflora can form tight associations with the root systems, or even grow within the root. Soil particles bound to roots are difficult to remove without injury to the roots that then allows microbial attack. These associated microflora will generally overgrow the tissue culture medium before there is significant growth of plant tissue.

Aerial (above soil) explants are also rich in undesirable microflora. However, they are more easily removed from the explant by gentle rinsing, and the remainder usually can be killed by surface sterilization. Most of the surface microflora do not form tight associations with the plant tissue. Such associations can usually be found by visual inspection as a mosaic, de-colorization or localized necrosis on the surface of the explant.

An alternative for obtaining uncontaminated explants is to take explants from seedlings which are aseptically grown from surface-sterilized seeds. The hard surface of the seed is less permeable to penetration of harsh surface sterilizing agents, such as hypochlorite, so the acceptable conditions of sterilization used for seeds can be much more stringent than for vegetative tissues.

The site I saw was Plant Tissue Culture planttc.com but you can check vendors many hydro sites have same kit.

 

[Green Utopia]

Very cool. Thanks for cutting that in for me.

 

[Green Utopia]

Pics Update

OK - been a while since any pics of the girls. All's well in the Sub. I found 1 male out of 8 so far. I'm actually hoping for another cause I'm running out of room. If there's a male it will save me any debating about what to do.

And now some pics. No real order, and no labels, I'm feeling lazy.

 

[Green Utopia]

Just noticed there are 420 threads in this forum right now. Gonna take a bong hit - I think everyone should!

 

[HealingKronic]

lookin good on the sub! hows the smell? kickin up yet?

 

[Green Utopia]

lookin good on the sub! hows the smell? kickin up yet?

I have a 10" fan sucking on a carbon filter - so that pulls all the smell inside the room and kills most of it. Can't smell a thing outside the door.

It reeks inside! It soooo very pleasing! Everyone that goes in comments on the smell, even before the actual plants, and usually again.

 

[Green Utopia]

Seeds Info

Hi All - nothing new here - just wanted to get this info here from Barney's site. Makes it easier for me.

Utopia Haze

Cannabis Cup & Sativa Cup Winner 2008.
Our friends in Brazil have been raving at us about a special strain of sativa cannabis - indigenous to Brazil. After much cajoling and hunting, we got our hands on seeds.
Thus began a 3 year selection process. Infusing no other genetics, backcrossing selected plants with strong genetics in the same line to get the desired phenotypes stabilized. We were looking for something original, with power, volume and unique taste and flavor. Finally just two phenotypes were chosen to work with. Hardy high yielding plants, - mould and disease resistant, and most important the power, taste and flavor are indeed unique. The high has indeed a sense of utopia, long lasting cerebral and heavenly.


TYPE
Sativa dominant
GENETICS
Afghani. North Indian. Mexican
YIELD
Optimum indoor. 550 gr/m2
HEIGHT
80-90 cm (indoor)
FLOWERING
70 to 80 days (indoor)
HARVEST
Mid October (outdoor)
THC
22 %
CBD
0.6 %

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Plants are looking healthy and happy WP! Good job.

 

[Green Utopia]

Thanks obx.

Morning Update:

I think things are going well. I am debating about whether to Clearex the bunch. I am not seeing anything really wrong, but its been a month. At the very least gonna change the reservoirs out today.

I am also starting to get a nasty feeling that my ballast and/or lights are too old. I know the bulbs are supposed to be changed every year or two grows, and this is the 3rd or 4th on this set of bulbs. I'm just not getting the bulk or the crystals I would like to be seeing. Not terrible, and they still have 4-7 weeks to go, so I'm not freaking, but it is nagging at me.

 

[CocoJoe]

I am debating about whether to Clearex the bunch. I am not seeing anything really wrong, but its been a month. At the very least gonna change the reservoirs out today.

I am also starting to get a nasty feeling that my ballast and/or lights are too old. I know the bulbs are supposed to be changed every year or two grows, and this is the 3rd or 4th on this set of bulbs. I'm just not getting the bulk or the crystals I would like to be seeing. Not terrible, and they still have 4-7 weeks to go, so I'm not freaking, but it is nagging at me.

You have a good handle on what you are doing.

 

[Aberration]

Fantastic stuff guys! I love coming to this thread WP.

The air-cloning (rooting in a bag midplant) I have heard of. Also, I have read up on tissue culture. It's actually simple really. I'm going to repeat some of the above in simpler words.

Just about any part of a plant can be coaxed into a new 'clone'. Some parts are harder. Leaf is easier because it has the engines already. Regular clones are more susceptible to pests and disease than full plants during rooting. The smaller the bit you try to propagate with, the more vulnerable they become. There is less reserve. Sterility is very important.

You can also bend a branch, then bring the bend to the soil and use a wire loop to hold it down. Treat with rooting gel and bury in a little mound. Keep it moist. When the roots form, you can cut it loose from the main plant. If you rooted the branch in another pot, it's already potted.

Go to a good size bookstore and look in the gardening section. Look for propagation techniques. I found a great book that covers all different types of rooting, tissue culture, plus grafting and stuff like that. It shows how easy it would be to make clones a half dozen ways from bits of cannabis plant.

Your plants are looking very good WP. I learn here.

 

[Green Utopia]

Fantastic stuff guys! I love coming to this thread WP.

The air-cloning (rooting in a bag midplant) I have heard of. Also, I have read up on tissue culture. It's actually simple really. I'm going to repeat some of the above in simpler words.

Just about any part of a plant can be coaxed into a new 'clone'. Some parts are harder. Leaf is easier because it has the engines already. Regular clones are more susceptible to pests and disease than full plants during rooting. The smaller the bit you try to propagate with, the more vulnerable they become. There is less reserve. Sterility is very important.

You can also bend a branch, then bring the bend to the soil and use a wire loop to hold it down. Treat with rooting gel and bury in a little mound. Keep it moist. When the roots form, you can cut it loose from the main plant. If you rooted the branch in another pot, it's already potted.

Go to a good size bookstore and look in the gardening section. Look for propagation techniques. I found a great book that covers all different types of rooting, tissue culture, plus grafting and stuff like that. It shows how easy it would be to make clones a half dozen ways from bits of cannabis plant.

Your plants are looking very good WP. I learn here.

Wow - right on man. By coincidence I was just looking through yer Kaboom. Your stuff is so well thought out its fantastic. Man, those 3 paragraphs you just typed are all chock full of great stuff for me. Don't know why I didn't think of the bookstore - been there twice in a week.

That trick of tying a branch into another pot is super ultra slick. That's crazy cool. I never would have thought of that.

As far as the cultureing goes. I guess I understand if you're forced to use a tiny bit like from a 1000 year old plant, or if you're in a lab and need to accommodate 10,000 samples in a fridge - but I'm still not seeing any use for the medical home user. In other words - why wouldn't you clone? Is there a way to combine genetic information - use a little leaf from one and graft it to another? I know there's all kinds of work being done on grafting branches, and not very successful yet - but is this where the tissue culture is going?

Again - I'm not trying to be dim or obtuse - I am just thinking out loud.

Thanks everyone for poking in. I promise gonna get a little something done on the controller soon. The weather is changing and I have to monitor the conditions in there a little too much for my liking. Too easy to forget to turn up a fan before leaving or whatever. I was settling into the rhythm of not having to build or plumb something new every day.

 

[Green Utopia]

Nutrient Diagnosis

Yet another thing I found elsewhere - just wanted to have it here.

The page its from as some other good stuff as well. I don't want to hype the site, but but don't want to rob them either. Worth looking at.

Key on Nutrient Disorders

To use the Problem-Solver, simply start at #1 below. When you think you've found the problem, read the Nutrients section to learn more about it. Diagnose carefully before making major changes.

1) a) If the problem affects only the bottom or middle of the plant go to #2.​

b) If it affects only the top of the plant or the growing tips, skip to #10. If the problem seems to affect the entire plant equally, skip to #6.​

2) a) Leaves are a uniform yellow or light green; leaves die & drop; growth is slow. Leaf margins are not curled-up noticeably. >> Nitrogen (N) deficiency.​

b) If not, go to #3.​

3) a) Margins of the leaves are turned up, and the tips may be twisted. Leaves are yellowing (and may turn brown), but the veins remain somewhat green. >> Magnesium (Mg) deficiency.​

b) If not, go to #4.​

4) a) Leaves are browning or yellowing. Yellow, brown, or necrotic (dead) patches, especially around the edges of the leaf, which may be curled. Plant may be too tall. >> Potassium (K) deficiency.​

b) If not, keep reading...​

5) a) Leaves are dark green or red/purple. Stems and petioles may have purple & red on them. Leaves may turn yellow or curl under. Leaf may drop easily. Growth may be slow and​

leaves may be small. >> Phosphorous (P) deficiency.​

b) If not, go to #6.​

6) a) Tips of leaves are yellow, brown, or dead. Plant otherwise looks healthy & green. Stems may be soft >> Over-fertilization (especially N), over-watering, damaged roots, or​

insufficient soil aeration (use more sand or perlite. Occasionally due to not enough N, P, or K.​

b) If not, go to #7.​

7) a) Leaves are curled under like a ram's horn, and are dark green, gray,​

brown, or gold. >> Over-fertilization (too much N).​

b) If not, go to #8...​

8) a) The plant is wilted, even though the soil is moist. >>Over-fertilization, soggy soil, damaged roots, disease; copper deficiency (very unlikely).​

b) If not, go to #9.​

9) a) Plants won't flower, even though they get 12 hours of darkness for over 2 weeks. >> The night period is not completely dark. Too much nitrogen. Too much pruning or cloning.​

b) If not, go to #10...​

10) a) Leaves are yellow or white, but the veins are mostly green. >> Iron (Fe) deficiency.​

b) If not, #11.​

11) a) Leaves are light green or yellow beginning at the base, while the leaf​

margins remain green. Necrotic spots may be between veins. Leaves are not twisted. >> Manganese (Mn) deficiency.​

b) If not, #12.​

12) a) Leaves are twisted. Otherwise, pretty much like #11. >> Zinc (Zn)​

deficiency.​

b) If not, #13.​

13) a) Leaves twist, then turn brown or die. >> The lights are too close to the plant. Rarely, a Calcium (Ca) or Boron (B) deficiency.​

b) If not... You may just have a weak plant.​

​

 

[Green Utopia]

You have a good handle on what you are doing.

Thanks, man. That is calming from someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[Green Utopia]

Wow - great timing. Thanks! I will subscribe right now.

And thanks for the compliments. I take LOTS of pics - like 300 at a time - then I figure if I can't find at least 5-10 I really suck. But it does take some time and effort so thanks for noticing.

 

[Green Utopia]

Mid Grow Clearex and Nutes Schedule

I went ahead and did a res change and Clearex today, and I want to note the levels, so I can come back to this later.

There were no real problems, and the plants appear healthy, and I have seen good growth and development daily, so this was mostly a preventative measure. But there is some method to the madness:

First: Basically I think some of the plants are about 4 weeks from their finishing leach of Clearex. Once they are ready, I will leach, then disconnect them from the Ebb and Grow. They will get whatever water I decide to give them the last few days, but basically at that point they should be ready to literally dry on the vine. So, if I Clearex all the plants now, it will be about 4-5 weeks before the next and that is about right. If I wait a week or two - then I will just end up having to do it again in 2-3 weeks.

Second: I like the pre-emptive nature of the Clearex. I have beat the hell out of these plants from the get go. They literally have been soaked for days, completely dried for hours, 20% humidity, low light, too much light, no nutes, low nutes, high nutes, tied down then scrogged. So I am really convinced that with that much variation, a pre-emptive Clearex every 4-5 weeks has kept me out of troubles I don't even know about. I don't have the years of experience to handle complex issues like LabRat.

I have been draining the res about every 20 days, top off the nutes every 3-5 days, add water as necessary to maintain the level.

My tap water is 6.2 pH 50ppm - very handy. By simply adding tap water to the res it raises the pH after adding nutes, it lowers the temp of the res, and tops off the water level.

When the water is at the right level I check ppm first - usually it is right where I like it. If ppm is too high then I add more water and let the overflow DTW. When the ppm is right I add pH Up as needed to get to 5.6 - 5.8

Whenever I do something with the res I bring the pH to 5.6 to 5.8 Then over the next 3 days it will climb to 6-6.2. If it seems like its climbing too fast, it can usually be fixed by adding a little nutrients to the res.

Current Revision of my Nutes Schedule (this is constantly changing, but getting more dialed in daily.) Also, its not complete because I haven't grown this crop to harvest.

Clones and Seedlings Starter Week - 1 liter mix - tap water
1.5ml PBP Grow
1.5ml Olivias
1.5ml Hygrozyme.
2 drops pH Up
PPM should be 350-450.
pH 5.8

Clones and Seedlings 2nd Week - 1 liter mix - tap water
1.5ml PBP Grow
1.5ml Liquid Karma
1.5ml Cal Mag+
1.5ml Olivias
2 drops pH Up
PPM should be 450-550.
pH 5.8

Early Veg - 12 liter mix - tap water
100ml PBP Grow
50ml Liquid Karma
50ml Cal Mag+
3.5ml pH Up
PPM should be 650-750
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
25ml PBP Grow
15ml Liquid Karma
15ml Cal Mag+
1ml pH Up
PPM should be 650-750
pH 5.7-5.8


Mid Veg - 12 liter mix - tap water
120ml PBP Grow
60ml Liquid Karma
60ml Cal Mag+
2.5ml pH Up
PPM should be 800-950
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
25ml PBP Grow
15ml Liquid Karma
15ml Cal Mag+
1ml pH Up
PPM should be 800-900
pH 5.7-5.8

Late Veg - 12 liter mix - tap water
150ml PBP Grow
75ml Liquid Karma
75ml Cal Mag+
3.5ml pH Up
PPM should be 1000-1100
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
25ml PBP Grow
15ml Liquid Karma
15ml Cal Mag+
1ml pH Up
PPM should be 1000-1100
pH 5.7-5.8

Early Flower 1st week- 20G Res but I use 15G for calc and works for ppm - tap water
125ml PBP Grow
125ml PBP Bloom
125ml Liquid Karma
125ml Cal Mag+
75ml Sweet
10ml pH Up
PPM should be 1100-1200
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
60ml PBP Bloom
30ml Liquid Karma
30ml Cal Mag+
3-5ml pH Up
PPM should be 1150-1250
pH 5.7-5.8

Early Flower 2nd Week - 20G Res but I use 15G for calc and works for ppm - tap water
60ml PBP Grow
235ml PBP Bloom
150ml Liquid Karma
150ml Cal Mag+
75ml Sweet
10ml pH Up
PPM should be 1250
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
60ml PBP Bloom
30ml Liquid Karma
30ml Cal Mag+
3-5ml pH Up
PPM should be 1250-1350
pH 5.7-5.8

Mid Flower 2nd Week - 20G Res but I use 15G for calc and works for ppm - tap water
350ml PBP Bloom
175ml Liquid Karma
175ml Cal Mag+
75ml Sweet
10ml pH Up
PPM should be 1350-1500
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
60ml PBP Bloom
30ml Liquid Karma
30ml Cal Mag+
3-5ml pH Up
PPM should be 1400-1550
pH 5.7-5.8

Full Flower - Start - 20G Res but I use 15G for calc and works for ppm - tap water
230ml PBP Bloom
120ml PBP Bloom Soil
230ml Liquid Karma
175ml Cal Mag+
120ml Sweet
30ml Hydroplex
10ml pH Up
PPM should be 1550-1650
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
60ml PBP Bloom Soil
30ml Liquid Karma
30ml Cal Mag+
20ml Sweet
5ml Hydroplex
3-5ml pH Up
PPM should be 1550-1650
pH 5.7-5.8

Full Flower - Mid - 20G Res but I use 15G for calc and works for ppm - tap water
120ml PBP Bloom
230ml PBP Bloom Soil
230ml Liquid Karma
175ml Cal Mag+
120ml Sweet
30ml Hydroplex
10ml pH Up
PPM should be 1550-1650
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
60ml PBP Bloom Soil
30ml Liquid Karma
30ml Cal Mag+
20ml Sweet
5ml Hydroplex
3-5ml pH Up
PPM should be 1550-1650
pH 5.7-5.8

Full Flower - 20G Res but I use 15G for calc and works for ppm - tap water
350ml PBP Bloom Soil
230ml Liquid Karma
175ml Cal Mag+
120ml Sweet
30ml Hydroplex
10ml pH Up
PPM should be 1550-1750
pH 5.7

3-5 Day topoff
60ml PBP Bloom Soil
30ml Liquid Karma
30ml Cal Mag+
20ml Sweet
5ml Hydroplex
3-5ml pH Up
PPM should be 1550-1750
pH 5.7-5.8

Full Flower Pre-Harvest - TBD