Usul's Grow 2.1: Red Cherry Berry, Indoor 250W MH/HPS, 2'x2' ScrOG in soil

[Setting Sun]

Sounds like a good nute plan usul.

The general rule when using a finger to check soil is to water if it's dry 2" deep, but I don't think that's a reliable method.

Here's a link to a product I plan to order that confirms that once the plant is large enough to have a developed root system, where you want to check moisture is near the bottom of the pot.

I like to judge by how much the pots weigh, but sometimes I also like to confirm things with a moisture meter, and I push it down almost to the bottom but not quite. I also take at least 2-3 readings in different places because sometimes the water doesn't soak in evenly.

Here's the link:

Inside Urban Green: A Better Way To Check Soil Moisture

 

[OldMedUser]

Man those plants are looking nice and sturdy. They're going to have to be to hold up those monster colas! I'm really interested to see how much they stretch. Hopefully you'll get nice tight internodes and fat, tight buds to match. +reps for your girls!

Looking fabulous so far.

 

[usul]

Thank you SS and Lab Rat! I am honored and humbled to have growers of your calibre checking in on my journal. And your advice is so very helpful. Ultrasonic, thanks so much for hanging in there with me from the very beginning - the grow you've got going is phenomenal.

SS, your link to the soil tester is great - I'll order one asap, they're cheap - and knowing I should measure moisture near the bottom of the pots helps a lot. It's been nine days since the last watering and they're just about ready for a drink - probably tomorrow or Sunday for sure.

Lab Rat, thanks so much for your support. The plants really are looking good - you'd never know the pots are almost dry; they've never looked so perky.

Ya know, I made my first attempt at growing three months ago, had that horrible experience with hydroponics and only now am I getting the feeling I might actually be able to harvest some buds. This is finally starting to feel like fun.

Growth rate is accelerating so I'll get some new pics posted this weekend.

 

[usul]

Weekend Update:

Moisture meter readings finally indicated it was time to water. The last watering 11 days ago (during the transplant to the large containters) was a flush with just pHed water, Cal Mag Plus and Hygrozyme. This time they got half strength nutes on the Fox Farm week 5 (first week of flowering) feeding schedule, plus Hygrozyme:

Tiger Bloom - 5ml/Gal
Big Bloom - 7.5ml/gal
Hygrozyme - 6ml/gal

Each plant took about half a gallon of water. They were looking fine before the watering, which I did right after the lights came on. Should be interesting to see how they look at the end of this light cycle.

Here are pics of the girls - 50 days old, day 5 flower:

A few grower's notes:

1. Since switching to 12/12 flowering I've noticed a significant difference in the color of the older leaves and the new growth. Older leavers are a lush, glossy deep forest green. The new growth is very light green - almost the color of a tennis ball. Mid-stage leaves are noticably varigated; deep green on the edges and light green in the center. At first I thought it might be due to a nutrient imbalance but am now thinking it's an early sign of flowering. We shall see.

2. The plants are really getting their skunk on - whew! The big exhaust fan runs all the time when lights are on and 15 minutes every hour during lights off. More than that and humidity and temps become an issue. One of my (many) goals is to be as stealthy as possible. This is technically a legal grow but laws in my area are not quite sorted out yet so stealth is prudent. Top of mind are control of noise and odor - there is only a thin door seprating the grow closet from the living room so even the slightest noise and odor are noticable. I've found a source for very quiet DC fans with AC power supplies and speed controllers. I'll be adding some of these in soon and we'll see how it goes. Ultimately, if the LED test grow Setting Sun has going can produce a reasonable harvest I may be able to shelve my big/noisy exhaust fan, use super quiet DC fans and have a completely invisible operation.

3. Now that it looks like I'll actually be able to bring these plants to harvest I am starting to think about drying and curing. As soon as I harvest I'll want to get the next grow going so I need a separate space for drying. Odor control is going to be a huge issue. So, I'm working on plans for an odor-free drying cabinet; carbon filter, ultra-quiet low-flow fan, temp and humidity controls, etc, etc... Should be interesting...

 

[mary_juana420]

Looking great Usul !
MJ420

 

[kailpot]

Hey Usul, your plants are looking good bro'

Question 1: How often should I run the exhaust fan?

I run my fan 24/7. This keeps the temps and humidity down during the day, but also keeps CO2 replenished since I don't add any. Will also keep any smells from escaping since I'm creating lots of negative pressure in the tent. All the best looks like you got them sorted and happy!

 

[Stealthy1]

Hey Usul I was pretty sure I had subscribed But apparently not.... oh well I just read up and they look awesome good to see such beautiful plants after all the slime.
Such a nice dark green color....

If its a standard size door I would replace it with a solid core door to reduce noise or get some of that foam insulation board and line the back of the door with it should keep noise down and the negative pressure should keep the smell from traveling.

 

[OldMedUser]

Your plants and setup are looking GREAT!

Here's a little wiring diagram in case you want to make a combination humidity/heat controller. I'm using the same thing in my room but a commercial setup. The heat controller works opposite to a thermostat on a furnace and turns on when the heat gets up to the the set temp and is the hard one to get. You may have to pick it up at an electrical supply store. The dehumidistat is the same as ones used in bathrooms. This will turn on the exhaust fan when either the heat or humidity gets too high. Can be used in the grow room or a drying box for buds.



\

C'ya.

 

[usul]

Thanks Stealthy for checking in - hope you're having fun in Mexico! As always, I appreciate your ideas and suggestions. I've tried lining the inside of the door with insulating foam, and it helps a little, but the noise is still very noticable. I can hear it right through the walls. I think my efforts are best spent combining a low-heat light source (c'mon LEDs!) with very quiet fans. One of the new DC fans should arrive soon and it'll be interesting to see how much airflow it can produce and how quiet it runs. I'll post test results soon.

Lab Rat - I love the schematic, thanks so much! I'd no idea there were such things as heat controllers and dehumidistats, let alone that they could be wired together to control an exhaust fan. Twiddling with these gadgets is going to be fun.

A few quick notes about the grow:

1. The girls are looking great and loved the last watering with 1/2 strength nutes. Growth has exploded and the stretch is on - they've grown almost 50% in height since switching to flower 5 days ago and foliar growth is going crazy. I feel like that guy in the movie Jaws when he sees how big the shark is... I need a bigger tent! While I'm happy with all the new growth I'm also worried these plants are going to outgrow the space I have available. I'd start bending the plants over and doing LST but horizontal space is as limited as vertical space. Hmmm...

2. From the "It's Always Something" department: it appears I have some univited guests. In the last week or so I've noticed small black flying insects I thought were fruit flies but after some research I'm pretty sure they are fungus gnats. There are very few of them - I'm seeing (and squishing) only one or two a day, and some days I don't see any at all. But I've read horror stories about what can happen if they get our of hand so I've called in backup. Nematodes are inbound...

I'll get new pics posted in a day or two.

 

[Green Utopia]

Doing great! Be careful changing anything, but you're getting great advice here so far. Lets hope mine doesn't break a good streak.

You said you're not having any trouble with temps, but humidity is low. I was amazed how much having the fans going can affect the humidity. The fact that you need a piece of wood to counteract the neg pressure, prolly means you're sucking out so much air, there will be no way to get the humidity where you want it. I had this same issue for a few weeks.

In order of least expensive to most:

If your fan can be put on a dimmer/fan speed control - this will help greatly. Make sure it can use variable speed before buying the gizmo though - some can't.

A thermostat is your next option, just kick the fan on when it gets too hot - the day/nite ones are more expensive but would let you set a lower temp at nite to try to combat nite time humidity.

Last but not least is a controller like LabRat showed - that's your best option. Your fan is far more energy efficient than your A/C - so if it can be used for both dehumidifying and temp, then you'll save $ in the long run.

Getting the air right is tricky, but you've got a good situation - too much air, and control of your temp. Now with a little finesse you'll have the atmosphere dialed in 100% where you and the plants want it.

Keep up the good work.

 

[usul]

Thanks WP - love the good advice! I have a speed controller that works with my exhaust fan but I need the fan running full time at full power when the lights are on just to keep temps under control. Of course, as you've mentioned, this causes low humidity which is why I run humidifiers when the lights are on. I seem to have achieved a delicate balance for now using the humidifiers/timers/etc. but it's certainly less than elegant. I totally agree with you and Lab Rat that a thermostat/dehubmidistat (with day/night feature - thanks for that!) is the way to go. It's my next R&D project. Fortunately, I think stuff like that is fun.

Getting the temp/RH right is indeed tricky. Doubly so when growing in a very small space, and double it again when using a very hot light! A worthy challenge

Just looked at the plants - they're about an hour away from the end of this light cycle ... and ... holy crap! They are growing like mad. One of 'em stuck a side leaf up in to a circulation fan and got a quick haircut - haha! Again, all good problems to have but - woa - it's like Jack and the Beanstalk. Fungus gnats seem to be on holiday but I'm not fooled...

 

[CocoJoe]

Usul, looks really good! Your name is it from Dune? Keep it green.

 

[usul]

Usul, looks really good! Your name is it from Dune? Keep it green.

Good catch cocoJoe - yes it's from Dune. Usul translates to "the base of the pillar". Gotta start somewhere My avatar image is the planet Arrakis - home of the Spice. And so here we have The Greening of Arrakis.

And speaking of green, here's a mid-week update:

As I mentioned in a previous post, growth has been explosive. Let's get right to the pictures. Here are the girls at 53 days old and starting day 7 flower:

Here's a picture of Betty showing a side-by-side comparison of her size at day 50 and day 53. I've tried to keep the scale of the images the same but, to be honest, the day 53 pic is a bit small. For god's sake, they only got half-strength nutes at the watering three days ago. I'm almost afraid to see what will happen when I go to full strength. Maybe I should back off on the Hygrozyme...

There's no obvious sign of flowering yet, but I didn't expect it after just 7 days. Growth patterns have changed though: new growth is becoming increasingly light in color and the nodes are becoming asymetric. Side branching is extensive and I'm counting about 25 potential bud sites. Should be interesting to see how things develop. I'm still running the Metal Halide and will switch to the HPS in one week.

I saw one adult fungus gnat today so they're still hanging around but certainly not a big issue. Beneficial nematodes will join the party at the next watering which, by the way, will be coming up soon. My trusty moisture meter shows the plants are sucking up water more quickly now.

 

[mary_juana420]

Looking really nice !

MJ420

 

[OldMedUser]

Looking real good there Usul! +Rep for the girls.

I gave my tubs the last of the Big Bud a few days ago then went to ANs nute calculator and found out I should have given it to them the second week of flowering not the 7th. So it might be prime time for you to heavy up the nutes and give them some bud booster if you've got it. My ppms were dropping 150 - 200/day during stretch then slowed to 50/day after the stretch was over. Sure shows how much more they eat during the stretch.

What you're doing seems to be working fine so don't go ODing your girls on my say so. Maybe check with your nute maker to see what they recommend. I wish I had of done that first but I'll make up for it the next go round.

Cheers.

 

[CocoJoe]

Thanx for the answer, I love the movie and need to read the book.
Yeh, your plants are adorable!

 

[usul]

I gave my tubs the last of the Big Bud a few days ago then went to ANs nute calculator and found out I should have given it to them the second week of flowering not the 7th. So it might be prime time for you to heavy up the nutes and give them some bud booster if you've got it. My ppms were dropping 150 - 200/day during stretch then slowed to 50/day after the stretch was over. Sure shows how much more they eat during the stretch.

Great info Lab Rat! I'm using Fox Farm nutes and the girls are getting the flowering formula but at 1/2 strength. From what you say it seems they need full strength during the stretch. You haven't steered me wrong yet so I'll throttle up to full power at the next feeding. How long should I expect the stretch period to last?

In other news, the new DC fan arrived today so I hooked it up and am testing. Early results look great! The fan is super quiet and, so far, seems to keep humidity right at 50% - which is perfect. And it keeps just enough negative pressure in the tent to completely eliminate ordors. I've attached it to the end of the exhaust duct and it's on a timer that turns it on when the big exhaust is off, then turns it off when the light and exhaust come on. Having the fan at the end of the exhaust line will introduce some resistance but I'm hoping the big fan can handle it. I'll know more tomorrow.

Here are some pics of the new fan setup:

Pardon the funky setup with all the duct tape - I like to make sure everything is going to work properly before fabricating more premanent fittings. For now, double-wall cardboard and duct tape offer a quick and easy way to prototype new ideas.

 

[OldMedUser]

The stretch is supposed to be 40% of the total flowering time. If you don't know the total flowering time then keep track of the stretch time and you can figure the total time to harvest fairly accurately. I'll have to wade back through my journal to get the end of stretch date to figure my total flowering time. I never kept track of this stuff the last time I grew these plants.

Don't worry about the duct tape. I'm an old Red Green fan from way back! lol If astronauts can use it for repairs at the space station who are we to shun it's use.

 

[usul]

More good info Lab Rat. Barney's Farm says flowering time for Red Berry Cherry is "medium". I'll assume that means 8 weeks and that I've got about another 2 weeks of stretch.

Next question(s): How much should I expect a plant to grow during the stretch period? How much more will it grow from the end of stretch until harvest?

I ask because I have very limited vertical space. It'd be great if I could estimate their final height. If it might exceed what I have available I'll want to do something ScrOG-ish right away.

Disclaimer: I totally realize every strain behaves differently and the environment, which is infinitely variable, makes a huge difference as well. All advice is very much appreciated and encouraged... the final decision, and responsibily for the outcome, is mine alone. So, keep that advice coming in!

 

[OldMedUser]

I switched to my HPS lights right when I went to 12/12 and had huge stretch. They went from 12" to 34 ", almost 3X the height. I've read since that leaving them under MH or grow lights with a higher ratio of blue light for the first 2 weeks of 12/12 helps to limit stretch. I'll be trying that next time myself. Keeping the day/night temps closer together is supposed to help limit stretch too. Like no more than 10 degrees difference.

C'ya.