Usul's Grow 2.1: Red Cherry Berry, Indoor 250W MH/HPS, 2'x2' ScrOG in soil

[Green Utopia]

I switched to my HPS lights right when I went to 12/12 and had huge stretch. They went from 12" to 34 ", almost 3X the height. I've read since that leaving them under MH or grow lights with a higher ratio of blue light for the first 2 weeks of 12/12 helps to limit stretch. I'll be trying that next time myself. Keeping the day/night temps closer together is supposed to help limit stretch too. Like no more than 10 degrees difference.

C'ya.

That's great info. I will be using my MH for the first part of flower next run. I see some plants go from 12" to 36" in two weeks under the HPS. Wouldn't be so bad, except the internodal lengthening. LR - do you think the MH would help that as well, or just slow the overall growth. Not sure if I'm making my question clear, but I bet you figure it out.

I had to edit cause I just saw the comments on Duct Tape. Using tape is no big deal at all. Using duct tape in grow room - not your best option. While its awesome for so many things - dt is neither heat nor moisture resistant. If used in a grow room it will lose its stickyness very quickly. I tried it to hold up mylar - big mistake.

 

[OldMedUser]

Hey WP.

Internodal length should be shortened as a result of keeping the stretch down and I can't see growth being stunted as the MH is best for growth. I'm definitely going that way next time and will use the 1000W MH to give them lots of light. Lower light levels will make them stretch more too.

Duct tape has it's uses but hanging mylar isn't one of them I see. I use a stapler and would put a small square of cardboard like that from a cereal box at each staple to prevent the mylar tearing. The radiant heat from the lights probably warms it up so the adhesive gets too soft. It was never designed for permanent repairs anyhow but has saved my ass many times over the years. lol

 

[Green Utopia]

Hey WP.

Internodal length should be shortened as a result of keeping the stretch down and I can't see growth being stunted as the MH is best for growth. I'm definitely going that way next time and will use the 1000W MH to give them lots of light. Lower light levels will make them stretch more too.

Duct tape has it's uses but hanging mylar isn't one of them I see. I use a stapler and would put a small square of cardboard like that from a cereal box at each staple to prevent the mylar tearing. The radiant heat from the lights probably warms it up so the adhesive gets too soft. It was never designed for permanent repairs anyhow but has saved my ass many times over the years. lol

I was about to comment on Usul's name - I never even put 2+2 together. I love those books, and the movie was pretty darn good as well. Good stuff bringing the symbolism of Arakis and Spice to 420.

Re the DT - was meant to be a two day fix til I could staple everything. Next day I came in and mylar draped everywhere. Actually, now that I think about it - it was the Easy Grow reflective.

As a side note, and not to harp on tape, but I can tell Usul is like us and likes the right tool for the job and likes getting hands on DIY - there are two types of tape I love in there now: 1 - the Silver metal tape used for ducting. Holds great. Has been holding the same thing that fell in a day for 8 months now. Two grows. (BTW had to use tape cause there is the tile from the bathroom behind it - no staples there). The other tape is called Gaffers Tape - by 3M. It is a black cloth tape that is light tight. It sticks to anything, but comes off easily when you want it to. It can hold cloth to corners, or just about anyting else. It is also my preferred splint now as well.

Long paragraph about tape, but I really find its the small things - that when you have them they make the big things sooooooo much easier.

 

[OldMedUser]

Good stuff about the tape. I've never heard of that gaffer's tape. I plan on adding a veg room in the near future with some upgraded ventilation on a low budget and tape of some sort will figure into the plan for sure. +reps for the tips.

PS: If you're having trouble getting staples into those tiles, pre-drill them with a masonry bit and fill the holes with epoxy!

 

[Tiger Balm]

hay usul and labrat, i posted a smoke report, start on p41!

 

[usul]

Thanks guys for all the info about growth during stretch (and I've gotta get me some of the gaffer tape). The plants were about 9" when I started flowering. Nine days later they are 13.5". So, a little less that half way through stretch they've grown by 50%. Not bad considering some of you experienced 300% growth during stretch. Then again, they're going to get a blast of full strength nutes at the next watering (probably tomorrow) so who knows what'll happen after that. Pretty sure I'm going to do some ScrOG-ish training to try and keep height under control.

In other news, the new DC auxilliary exhaust fan has been installed for 24 hours now and is a huge success. It doesn't reduce flow of the big exhaust fan one bit and does a fabulous job ventilating the tent when the light and big fan are off. It's almost completely silent and there is no odor whatsoever. It's running at maximum speed right now -12 volts - and humidity is 46%. I'm considering dropping the speed down a notch to reduce noise even further, but the pots are pretty dry so I want to see how it handles things right after watering. Anyway, I'm one step closer to a completely silent and odor-free setup! I'll be ordering a smaller version of this fan for ventilating the soon-to-be-built drying cabinet.

Finally, I feel like an expectant father pacing back and forth in the waiting room... After 9 days of 12/12 there is still no sign of flowering.

p.s. to Tiger: I want some of what you're smokin!

 

[CocoJoe]

After 9 days of 12/12 there is still no sign of flowering.

p.s. to Tiger: I want some of what you're smokin!

About 18 to 20 days. Can be longer tho.

 

[usul]

About 18 to 20 days. Can be longer tho.

Thanks CocoJoe - It's a bit of a relief to know it can take that long for flowering to show - especially when Setting Sun is getting flower sign after just 2 days with Violator Kush under LEDs! I was feeling so less-than...

The girls and I have been busy. Here's a weekend update:

Given the strong growth and my limited vertical space I decided to try my hand at ScrOG-ish training. It was now or never so I used the materials I had on hand - nylon twine. It's not pretty but it seems to work. Here's a picture of the girls, 56 days old, just beginning day 11 flower.

I've been looking for signs of flowering for a while now and think I finally found something. Here's a pic. Maybe. Maybe not.

Anyway, after intalling the twine last night I checked moisture and, hokey smokes! the girls where totally dry. It took 11 days for them to dry out last time. Took just six days this time. I mixed up a new batch of nutes - full strength Fox Farm Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom, plus full strength Hygrozym. Also added the nematodes. Fungus gnats are still hanging around but very minimal. I'll know more about the efficacy of nematodes in a week or so.

The new DC fan is working like a champ. Airflow, temps and humidity in the tent are perfect. And I've started work on the drying cabinet - More about that soon.

 

[usul]

Just checked the girls right before lights out at the end of day 11 flower and there are little white hairs poppin out all over. So, they are girls for sure (whew) and they're gettin' horny. They liked those full strength nutes and growth is very strong so things should get much more interesting from here on out.

 

[CocoJoe]

Pistils always a joy to behold.

 

[mary_juana420]

Day 11 flower
Little white hairs poppin out all over.
So, they are girls for sure

Awesome !

Buds coming your way soon !

Congrats ! ( Would +Rep you if I could )
MJ420

 

[BassBong]

Looking forward to seeing a full net of buds. Very Nice.

 

[ultrasonic]

Man usul, i've been away from the forums for a while, but i've been lurking your thread... You need a big congrats man - you're going to be smoking that deliciousness soon enough! You'll be surprised how quickly the buds form and how intricate they are... at least I was.

And yep, that pistil is a sure sign of a female. 1 of those, and you know you're good (unless you've got a hermie )

MMMMMMM can't wait for more shots

ps- something I noticed with my bulb is that the stretch wasn't nearly as bad as people had said it was supposed to be when using hps: I found the nodes to be fairly close together, and stretch only lasted a couple weeks, and seemed... predictable.

2 cents for someone with height concerns... we'll be talkin soon usul!

 

[usul]

Thank you CocoJoe, MJ, BassBong and Ultra - your support and insights are very much appreciated!

All is well in the garden! Growth remains strong, pistles are popping outeverywhere and stretch is well under control. A few notes:

- The makeshift screen is working well. I've been able to do a fair amount of training and have limited vertical growth a lot. I've only had to raise the light 2" in the last 10 days or so.

- The plants like it close to the light. I was concerned their tops might get burned if they got close to the light but they're only 2 or 3 inches from the light now (250W HID) and are lovin' it. I think the fans blowing air between the plant tops and the light are making a big difference. This gives me a little more vertical space than I'd planned.

- Speaking of the light, the girls are now basking under the golden glow of HPS. Seemed like they were ready for it.

- Thirsty girls, they're about ready for a drink. Tomorrow for sure - that'll be six days again. I'll stick with full strength Fox Farms Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom.

Here's a pic of the gilrs at 60 days old, day 15 flower:

I'll get better pics up later - still trying to figure out how to take good photos under this new light.

 

[OldMedUser]

I'm a bit confused. I thought that you threaded the vegging plant through the net and once it was half full you went 12/12 and threaded the stretch to fill up the canopy. Out of a 60 day flowering cycle 24 will be stretch. 40% stretch, 60% fattening up.

I gotta watch this grow to see how it turns out!

Usul is a busy boy. ;0)

 

[Green Utopia]

I love the trellis! I think that's gonna do you well. Not quite a scrog per say but that plant looks like it wants a trellis more than a scrog anyways.

Lookin great!

+Reps for a good decision!

 

[mary_juana420]

Usul,
Can you give us a rundown on what your plan is for training those into the screen and your plans on trimming ?

Looks like some of those lower branches may not make it to the screen.

Are you going to run the tops to the front of the screen ? ( Front as in closest by the picture ! )

Looking great !
MJ420

 

[usul]

I'm a bit confused. I thought that you threaded the vegging plant through the net and once it was half full you went 12/12 and threaded the stretch to fill up the canopy. Out of a 60 day flowering cycle 24 will be stretch. 40% stretch, 60% fattening up.

Hey Lab Rat What you describe is exactly what I'd have done if I was more experienced and planning ahead. As it turned out, I saw how crazy things were getting and threw in the "screen" one week after flowering stretch began - what Papa Green calls an "emergency ScrOG".

I love the trellis! I think that's gonna do you well. Not quite a scrog per say but that plant looks like it wants a trellis more than a scrog anyways.

Thanks Papa Green - it really is working out nicely.

Usul,
Can you give us a rundown on what your plan is for training those into the screen and your plans on trimming ?

Looks like some of those lower branches may not make it to the screen.

Are you going to run the tops to the front of the screen ? ( Front as in closest by the picture ! )

Good questions MJ. My plan is to continue tucking tops and big fan leaves under the twine and directing flower tops into empty areas and up above the twine. But I'm running out of room and wished I'd have either started flowering sooner (hint, hint or had only two plants. As it is, some of the tops are going to have to grow without further training while I wait for a few of the lower side branches to make their way up above the screen. No matter how it works out I'll learn a lot!

Here are a few more pictures showing how things have grown since I started 12/12 flowering, and another showing a frontal fiew of the tent.

Here's a front view of the tent. I've raised the light up a bit for a better view...

That's a 2 foot wide tent there folks - tight quarters for three healthy plants. My next grow will definitely be two plants, or maybe even one.

Just an hour until the light comes on and I've got a new batch of nutes all mixed up. In addition to the full strength FF Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom and Hygrozyme I've added a full strength dose of CalMag Plus.

C'mon Flowers!

 

[Setting Sun]

I started out thinking I was going to grow 10-12 plants in my tents, lol.

Only way to do that would be a 12/12 from seed grow in maybe one-gallon pots. I could pack far more than 12 in there.

My thinking has changed though, after seeing that fewer plants can provide very nice yields.

I like your trellis screen! Looks like it's going to work great!

 

[ultrasonic]

Haha! Progress! Love seein' shots of that tent- it's so nicely packed it capacity: you can see why I warned against too many plants Those suckers get pretty large, quickly. Great screen too: I gave up on my scrog because I had trouble finding a screen, but I guess this proves that a little effort and some string could be all that's needed.

Would like to hear your plan for "ungrowth" removal. alot of people clear-cut under the screen, and I can see that being a good option for your lower-wattage lamp. I like to clear some undergrowth regardless of the method: I find it assists in air circulation, and makes the plants easier to work with.

Have you considered how you're going to be flushing them, all locked into the screen? No pressure, just a thought that popped into my mind....