300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

[MJ Crescendo]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

These videos are getting exciting! I thought we had the same tent, but even with those big girls it looks like they fit very well. My 3gallon ladies are even budding on the walls and fought for space all the way to day 30 of flower. I'm sure yours love the space and high transpiration rates. Everything looks incredibly healthy thus far. My girls are starting to drop some fan leaves off in places where light intensity isn't as high. I don't think your girls will have the same trouble w/ those lights. Hope to see those buds start to fill out in the next couple of weeks. I have a good feeling that you may break your record on yield w/ these tents. I'm glad that the tents are neck-n-neck which thus far is proving that these lights compete really well with hid setups. Keep on teaching the masses the future! Best of luck and keep it green SS.

MJ

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

i will say my OC+ plants are much greener then the DM, but the DM plants are allot bigger and way more dense buds. maybe a mix of both will be a great one?

Could be, because one releases nutes mostly based on temps, and the other based on moisture, so together they may provide more consistent nutrition.

heat also seemed to effect my OC+ in a bad way but not my DM plants so much, all my plants were toped dressed in mostly perlite and some SunShine#4 soiless mix. maybe if i were using soil and the OC+ were down into the medium it would have been ok?

Hard to say, but they're all going to work better deeper in the medium because both temp and moisture levels are more consistent down there.

SS were ur last nugs with the OC+ very dense? my DM plants are very very dense.

Not real dense, or rock hard, but fairly solid. Nobody would call them airy.

i never got a N def until late flowering with the DM and have a few yellowing leafs with the DM purple but every thing els is good. i dont worry about yellowing late into flowering, but in ur case thats not good at all, way too early. its the DM red that is all out of whack for me, but thats because i never feed them with Cal/mag for the longest time and still barley feed them with it. to be honest i did care.lol. buds are still huge and frosty, i was just to lazy to mix up a different batch of food just for those plants to be honest.

Not sure what caused the N def. Could have been that I didn't use enough of the DM, although I used more than recommended, or it may have something to do with the flushing I had to do to wash the salt out of the coco.

Can totally relate to not wanting to mix up a special batch of nutes for different plants, since I don't like mixing up nutes for any plants, lol.

We're getting these CRF's dialed in, just gonna take a little while. Seems like lots of folks here are trying them, so that should help expedite the learning process.

thanks bro!

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS, those are some healthy honeys

Do you rotate them to get light to all sides?... they look so nice and even.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

What fun. Dancing buds!

hoping they turn into swaying buds in a few weeks

thanks Two Tokes!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS, those are some healthy honeys

Do you rotate them to get light to all sides?... they look so nice and even.

Nope, no rotation.

When I was taking them out of the tents, I wouldn't always put them back in the same location and orientation, but that's the extent of it and I haven't taken them out very often.

The even growth is due to the excellent light saturation from both of these lights in my 32" x 32" tents. These Secret Jardin tents use a very reflective material, and both of these lights, in particular the 400w HID, border on marginal for my DR80 tents, so it's *full* of direct and reflected light energy in there. The buds up against the walls in both tents are doing just fine.

I've seen even growth from the get-go, so I saw no reason to rotate them.

I'm very impressed, and very stoked, with the performance of both of these lights.

The LED tent has a much simpler and cleaner setup, and as it turns out, although the lights are fairly close in total watts, the LED light has been much easier to deal with as regards heat management. The 100cfm S&P exhaust fan in the LED tent is designed to be quiet, not powerful, and with the added drag of the carbon filter, it's probably down to around 50cfm, but it's still adequate for cooling the LED tent.

The HID light required the added complexity and hassle of air-cooling, and I still had to spend an additional $138 for a 200cfm axial fan, at double the cfm rating of the S&P and of more powerful design, to equalize temps between both tents.

The HID fan upgrade turned into a bit of a hassle too, because I had to cut off a couple of mounting tabs on the fan so that it would sit on top of the tent properly, which took a while to do, and then the connection in the HID tent between the 6"-4" reducer and the new fan kept slipping, no matter how tight I tightened the hose clamp, so I had to increase the diameter of the fan with some aluminum tape so the adapter fit snugly enough to stop slipping. That's one connection I don't need to slip.

It was a total pain. The garage was hot, the inside of the tent was hotter, and I was sweating like a pig in there for at least 1/2hr thrashing with the ducting and connectors to make things secure.

I'm not the youngest of whippersnappers, so it's stuff like that that makes me appreciate the simplicity of the LED light even more.

I was looking forward to installing the fan upgrade, because I enjoy doing stuff like that, but it wasn't an enjoyable evening.

I think I heard a snicker from the LED tent too, which pissed me off even more.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

ima get caught up on the journal tonight and do a pic update, but in the meantime, what do you guys think about putting a few of these together for a mom/clone/veg light?


MR16 LED Spot Landscape Light 12V 3w White 6500K


this one looks better and easier:

5 LED Spot Light Bulb Lamp 5W E27 110V 220V 6500K 450LM

 

[topcat1951]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Just wanted to drop in and say thanks, as all you guys doing the led grows are sure to be a big help for all of us that are just beginning. Will start my first grow ever later this month and you and Irishmans grows have taught me a lot. Thanks again.

T.C.

 

[The Lurker]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I'm not the youngest of whippersnappers...

+1 for using the word 'whippersnappers' in a sentence.

Us old curmudgeonly geezers appreciate it.

A message to the Cannibinoids of Earth from the Pot Head Pixies
and Octave Doctors on the Mothership, a.k.a. GONG​

Gong! More Canterbury Tales...didn't know they had a new one out. Nice JITL imagery, too. I suppose if 2012 doesn't turn into a Mayan s**tfest after all, some of us might actually make it to 2032 and find out for ourselves.

(in this incarnation, anyway - we shall see)

Ok, it's official, b - we can hang. Maybe even get some compatriots together and whip up a pot luck dinner.

You are one hip dude.

ima get caught up on the journal tonight and do a pic update, but in the meantime, what do you guys think about putting a few of these together for a mom/clone/veg light?

If the first actually uses Edixeon K-Series (#EDEW-KLC8), those aren't bad overall. Not exactly higher-end Cree's, but also not as expensive. Decent for the money.

The 5w? ...non-branded, and as astro would point out, all specs are just that. What's it really do?

The problem with eBay is - you never really know what you're getting. Even if they tell you it's a 'brand name'.
-----

Your call. Want to try out some cheap LED spots for a cycle or two, then it's an option. If you do end up using some spots though, lower watt ones like that are better thermal-wise - and whatever you do, do NOT enclose them. A cylinder makes a very nice heat trap. Open air only, and if you can get some circulation on them, all the better.

Anything over 5w in that profile, and make sure it's got some decent (active) cooling. Put a fan on 'em.

I get leery of any spot that costs too little, also. Makes me wonder exactly what's in it - since most retail electronics never sell for less than 30-40% gross margins - and LEDs tend to go for a lot higher.

Just sayin'.

 

[hydronewbie]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

SS: Looking very healthy. I appreciate the commentary about what it costs to cool down the HID vs. LED cost investment also more work with ducting. I can't wait to see the final numbers.

 

[dogsnova]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

I suppose if 2012 doesn't turn into a Mayan s**tfest after all, some of us might actually make it to 2032 and find out for ourselves.

Ha Ha.. The Mayan long calendar represents the earths current wobble (aprox 26 thousand + years) that was created when a planet, more specifically a (water Planet) smashed into earth with a nice glancing blow and the result was the creation of the MOON.. The moon is the result of the earths crust being thrown into space, then these fragments coalesced to form the Moon. That impact also gave the earth it's tilt. The creation of the moon is what brought Mother Earth to life.. Without this event.. The earth would of just been another rocky planet in space that eventually cooled down with no life on her.. At least not life as we know it.. Here is another example of how important the moon is.. The moon is what slowed the earth down to it's current 24hr a day rotation..

Dec 21st 2012 represents the end of the earths current 26 thousand + year wobble. In celestial terms, that day is how the planets were aligned when the impact accrued, thus scientist dub this as a galactic alignment.. This alignment accrues when the December solstice sun is aligned with the Galactic equator..

These wobble cycles have been going on with earth for millions of years.. Scientist say these wobble cycles have been different in the past based on how fast or slow the earth is rotating.. So as the earth slows down (because of the moon's pull on earth) the wobble cycle will become larger and larger.. When the wobble cycles reach aprox 50 thousand + years (like Mars currently is) humans will know longer be able to survive on Mother Earth... Remember it will be quite sometime before the earth slowes to 30/40+ hour days..


The 2012 dooms day scenario is just another example of modern day mankind getting the facts wrong IMO..


Dec 21st 2012 is the ultimate earth day.. It's a celebration day not a dooms day.. So yeah the earth will be here in 2032...lol... That is if mankind doesn't destroy it first..


Kind of off topic I know... But the earths wobble is a good study IMO...

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Nice videos Sun! They are really coming along.

That was a different song bmarduk... and I kinda liked it! Have to hit Mog for some more...

On the veg lights - any compelling reason to use those instead of T-5's, CFLs... or even just shop lights? I use t-8 shop lights for all my vegging with a couple CFLs hanging to fill in - there's a 27 watt cfl out with a real nice 5500 "daylight" spectrum, and seems more intense than the larger sizes.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Like I said, now you have a real lamp.

I took the defective Lumatek bulb back to the hydro shop, where we were able to reproduce the failure; but not with a magnetic ballast, only with a digital, which is interesting since these bulbs are designed specifically for dig ballasts.

I'm thinking the digital ballasts are "smart" enough to recognize the bulb as defective and shut it down before it blows.

With a digital ballast, the lemon 400w bulb fires up fine and then just gets brighter and brighter for about 30-60sec, until it's probably at least as bright as a 1000w bulb or more, and then things shuts down for a few minutes, and fires back up and repeats the cycle.

With the mag ballast, it just got *very* bright and stayed on until the ballast was unplugged after approx 5min. I don't think it would have had a very long lifespan.

possibly to your chagrin, however, I did not return the Lumatek bulb, but exchanged it for another .

I'm not, however, considering replacing the Ushio with it on this grow .

The Sharkies did the same, I did the 180 degree turn on the tops right b4 and right after I flipped them and it pushed them more out than up.

I think it distributes the stretch more to the 2ndary growth by temporarily inhibiting apical growth and lateral inhibition.

yup, that's a very familiar shape. I've been bending them over one week before the flip, and that seems to be good timing in the grow cycle for this lateral effect in stretch.

It's like the ladies are thinking (in their chemical plant language of course, as far be it for me to anthropomorphize) "oh yeah mofo, go ahead and tie me down right before I start stretching, we'll see how you like it when I get fat!"

pimpin' in the grow room, if nowhere else

Fired up and vented the 2nd 400 Watt Phillips CMH in the floratorium today which is now complete and fine tuned.

a journal would be splendid!

I know you're not shy about posting

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Damn!

You're a gifted grower SS. They just look amazing! I'm always here lurking. This is a thread where I just shut up and learn. Not much for me to say.

Keep up the good work. Also, I really like the early frosting on some of those buds! Maybe someday I'll find a way to grow that strain!

 

[GrowLEDHydro]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

ima get caught up on the journal tonight and do a pic update, but in the meantime, what do you guys think about putting a few of these together for a mom/clone/veg light?


MR16 LED Spot Landscape Light 12V 3w White 6500K - eBay (item 250721244518 end time Nov-06-10 0257 PDT)


this one looks better and easier:

5 LED Spot Light Bulb Lamp 5W E27 110V 220V 6500K 450LM - eBay (item 180579007484 end time Nov-24-10 0426 PST)

If you wanna wait about a week or two ill send you out some pretty cool clone/veg/mother plant lights

Awesome videos by the way!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

K.I.S.S Rules, complexity is added cost in terms of time/energy [kungfu], blood, sweat, tears, dollars, attitude, and possibilities for failure.

Absolutely, simple is better.

I had thought I had that hose clamp finally tight enough to hold, and I had zipped up the tent and was walking away when I heard the hose slip off the fan.

If that had happened a few seconds later, it would have been crispy critters in the HID tent because I thought I was done for the night.

now I feel like going out there and checking that hose clamp

Heat management with HIDs has always been an issue, I'm running two 400 W Phillips CMH retros in a 40' X 70" X 7' floratorium in a shed with 2 6" air-cooled enclosed hoods vented to the great outdoors. Ballasts outside the box, intake air drawn from a shaded concrete enclosure, and I'm running 81 degrees in the flower room when it was 90 degrees outside! These bulbs throw off significantly less heat than other 400 watters and I'm able to drop the lights down closer. Other than the vertical, this room is about the size of your two tents pushed together. If you have the right ballast [400 W HPS magnetic] I would highly recommend this lamp. Your Ushio is very good, it would be interesting to compare and contrast.

I noticed when I ran my 250w CMH that it ran a few degrees cooler than MH or HPS.

I don't have a magnetic 400w HPS ballast, just an MH, but I do have all the gear I need, including identical hoods, to compare a 250w CMH to another 250w HID bulb, so I could do that.

Ladies looking good as always,

thank you bel

"it doesn't get any easier, you just go faster"

lance armstrong

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Just wanted to drop in and say thanks, as all you guys doing the led grows are sure to be a big help for all of us that are just beginning. Will start my first grow ever later this month and you and Irishmans grows have taught me a lot. Thanks again.

T.C.

thank you T.C.!

like your name, I used to watch that cat when I was a kid .

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Damn!

You're a gifted grower SS. They just look amazing! I'm always here lurking. This is a thread where I just shut up and learn. Not much for me to say.

and I'm pretty sure I've learned more following your journals than anywhere else on this site, but I'm still working on keeping my yapper shut .

Keep up the good work. Also, I really like the early frosting on some of those buds! Maybe someday I'll find a way to grow that strain!

thanks bro, they're frosting up nicely!

I'd love to see you grow some PPP

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

If you wanna wait about a week or two ill send you out some pretty cool clone/veg/mother plant lights

Awesome videos by the way!

wow, don't know what to say, thank you Michael!

I think I can manage to hold off

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

29 DAYS FLOWERING

THE HID PLANTS:

THE LED PLANTS:

All the ladies are happy and healthy. Temps are equal in both tents. The stretch is over and they're filling in nicely.

I'd like to correct something I said earlier when I mentioned that both lights are 17" off the canopy.

What I should have said is that both lights are 17" off the tallest plant, because one of the LED plants is about 1/2" shorter than the tallest HID plant, but averaging things out, the LED light is farther from the canopy by a few inches, probably around 3" or thereabouts.

So, averaging the canopy, the LED light is at about 20", and the HID light is at 17".

The LED buds look slightly fatter and frostier to me at this point, but things are still remarkably close.

I thought these two lights would be a good match-up, and I had no idea as to which would do better, but I didn't think things would be this close this far along.

On the next update in 2-3 days I'll take a couple of plants out for pics, because after that it won't be doable.

to all for following!

 

[Troublesome2]

Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID

Im soo sold on the led lighting. Ill be pickin one up for $400 for my next grow
I seen one at my local shop and it was in a 3x3 tent rockin out some tomato plants with the thickest leaves iv ever seen it was sooo healthy. So i remember what you said about the leaves seeming a lil bit thicker SO IM SOLD I GOTTA HAVE ONE...No ventalation, less electricity straight simplicity SAAAAAWEEET!!! Thank you Mr. Sun for this side by side and im sure the led lighting companies are gonna owe you millions for this grow HAHa LOL