Fudo Myoo
Well-Known Member
Yep, blow up the pics, when your sugar leaves look like this…!
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I am SO doing this backcutting. Wow, what results. It's like you found a "bag appeal" button!Bloom - 5 weeks, 4 days
Geoflora Feed - Day 4
Wet/Dry Cycle - Day 4
Number of fast waterings - 3
30 Days since last SNS Foliar, SNS 209 given on each watering
Length of Grow - 3 months, 2 weeks, 5 days
We have entered a very interesting point in the grow and this fast watering cycle. Today was day 4 in the watering cycle, our expected long watering point where we were going to wait for the soil to completely dry out before watering again. This would let the lower roots get a hit of oxygen and also allow the plants to experience a bit of drought stress. I usually try to do this every 4th watering, for just the reason that we see today.
For today, before watering them I did the lift test, and found that there was still significant water in all of these containers. Consistently all around the BLOOM room, we have a slowdown. This can of course be explained by knowing that by pushing water, we have kept the lower roots under water for the better part of 12 days. The plants feel that this is too long, and they have started to protect the lower roots, and as a result, they were not able to uptake the water as quickly as they have been doing, on this round. Those roots absolutely need to dry out at this point or the plants will start suffering. Some would ignore this effect and be happy assuming that any future damage that might be seen is senescence, but we know better, and we know what is wrong and how to fix it.
Everything is still fine and there are no problems that have resulted yet from this temporary slow down, but by carefully monitoring water usage we are able to see what is going on and respond appropriately before the plants began to suffer. Just to keep the metabolism high, I watered with one quart, vs the 5 quarts they usually take, just to water the top spreader roots that are already in the dry zone at the top of the container. We will now wait a few more days so the plants can drain that water at the bottom and re-energize the big bottom feeder roots. The timing is perfect, and about the same time this happens we will be entering into the 6th week of the grow, exactly the time we want to do a flush in a synthetic grow so as to clear the pipes of salt buildup and get back to full uptake. We don't have the salt to deal with in this grow, but we have a very similar situation at the root level, this one caused intentionally by me from overwatering.
The backbuild cuts are continuing to impress and most of the pictures tonight will again concentrate on that. I have one picture set at the beginning that shows how the buds naturally foxtail at the top to build extra bud size at this point, compared to how the backcut buds are foxtailing in the middle. It really is fascinating how completely we can control this plant.
I will be back building on every future grow yep yep yepBloom - 5 weeks, 4 days
Geoflora Feed - Day 4
Wet/Dry Cycle - Day 4
Number of fast waterings - 3
30 Days since last SNS Foliar, SNS 209 given on each watering
Length of Grow - 3 months, 2 weeks, 5 days
We have entered a very interesting point in the grow and this fast watering cycle. Today was day 4 in the watering cycle, our expected long watering point where we were going to wait for the soil to completely dry out before watering again. This would let the lower roots get a hit of oxygen and also allow the plants to experience a bit of drought stress. I usually try to do this every 4th watering, for just the reason that we see today.
For today, before watering them I did the lift test, and found that there was still significant water in all of these containers. Consistently all around the BLOOM room, we have a slowdown. This can of course be explained by knowing that by pushing water, we have kept the lower roots under water for the better part of 12 days. The plants feel that this is too long, and they have started to protect the lower roots, and as a result, they were not able to uptake the water as quickly as they have been doing, on this round. Those roots absolutely need to dry out at this point or the plants will start suffering. Some would ignore this effect and be happy assuming that any future damage that might be seen is senescence, but we know better, and we know what is wrong and how to fix it.
Everything is still fine and there are no problems that have resulted yet from this temporary slow down, but by carefully monitoring water usage we are able to see what is going on and respond appropriately before the plants began to suffer. Just to keep the metabolism high, I watered with one quart, vs the 5 quarts they usually take, just to water the top spreader roots that are already in the dry zone at the top of the container. We will now wait a few more days so the plants can drain that water at the bottom and re-energize the big bottom feeder roots. The timing is perfect, and about the same time this happens we will be entering into the 6th week of the grow, exactly the time we want to do a flush in a synthetic grow so as to clear the pipes of salt buildup and get back to full uptake. We don't have the salt to deal with in this grow, but we have a very similar situation at the root level, this one caused intentionally by me from overwatering.
The backbuild cuts are continuing to impress and most of the pictures tonight will again concentrate on that. I have one picture set at the beginning that shows how the buds naturally foxtail at the top to build extra bud size at this point, compared to how the backcut buds are foxtailing in the middle. It really is fascinating how completely we can control this plant.
That photo tutorial thing she's got going on is real effective, isn't it? Like, why would we NOT do this now that we've actually SEEN how easy and effective it is, right? Seems like a total no brainer! And yo, @Mdlroad, I'm Jon. Nice to make your acquaintance.I will be back building on every future grow yep yep yep
Howdy. I'm still new to growing about to start my 3rd indoor grow. I wouldn't have been successful without help from this community.That photo tutorial thing she's got going on is real effective, isn't it? Like, why would we NOT do this now that we've actually SEEN how easy and effective it is, right? Seems like a total no brainer! And yo, @Mdlroad, I'm Jon. Nice to make your acquaintance.
Cool. Simpatico. I am also on my third indoor grow, and I also would not have been successful without help from this community. I wish I could show you the pics from my first ever grow, which was before I found this forum, and then compare to my last grow, which came with tons of help from the great folks here, and the difference is astounding. Do you have a journal or are you going to document grow #3 in a journal? If so, could you please tag me? I suspect as we are both on the identical level of experience and we both trust the folks here, we likely have similar questions and stuff at times and could possibly benefit from the same info. Thanks! Stop by my current journal if you're so inclined, would love to have your input.Howdy. I'm still new to growing about to start my 3rd indoor grow. I wouldn't have been successful without help from this community.
Explain foxtailing, please.I have one picture set at the beginning that shows how the buds naturally foxtail at the top to build extra bud size at this point, compared to how the backcut buds are foxtailing in the middle. It really is fascinating how completely we can control this plant.
I'd also like to hear your explanation of foxtailing. I also, if you don't mind @Azimuth, would like to add a related question about timing related to this back cutting. @Emilya, you said the sweet spot in terms of when to do this is the 5th week of flowering, yes? So is that week five post-stretch or including the stretch? (Sorry if I missed this info in the journal). Also, I am going to try this on my autos. If we go with a week to an auto is five days, and the timing is week 5 including or not including the stretch, then it would seem to reason that doing this to an auto should happen in the week of days 26-33 of budding or so, the days that comprise week five for an auto. Then there's just the pre or post stretch question. But take Chunky. She's been budding for days and stretched for about 11 days before she quit. So including stretch, she's been flowering say 18 days. In another week these buds will not be developed enough for back cutting, that's clear. That would be the beginning of her week 6 if you include the stretch in the 5 weeks. But in 18 more days they likely will be. That would be the 11 days of the stretch plus the 25 for the 5 weeks, or around day 36. So at least with the auto, I'm thinking post stretch and then in the 5th week. Am I on the right track? Thanks, and thanks Azimuth for letting me jump in with you on this. If back cutting is going to produce foxtail like growth to fatten up it certainly will be helpful to better understand it. I know what it looks like and that too much or too little light can cause it, and I know that certain strains kind of grow the buds in this fashion by design, but that's about it. Thanks. Good question.Explain foxtailing, please.
Yep, it sure does. Perfect. So lemme ask one clarification question - you say this: At this point in the grow, it just sends the growth points down lower in the bud, not lower in the plant.Every strain is different, but you want to do the backbuild cut around mid flower, just as the buds start taking on the pointed conical look. For most 8 week strains this happens right at the beginning of the 5th week. Stretch happens in the first 2 weeks after the flip. The first week of stretch happens during the transition to bloom and the second week happens on the first week of actual bloom. I do not start my bloom period at the flip... the plants are not yet blooming for 7-10 days, depending on the strain. I have never grown an auto all the way out, so I am not sure when the appropriate time for the cut would be, but again lets assume it is the middle of the bloom period, whenever that is. Look for the pointed conical appearance and you will be at the right point.
So I call this building out process foxtailing. That is both true and not true. Here are some pictures of out of control foxtailing, that can be caused by too much or not enough light, heat and other stressors. Sativas foxtail naturally and often develop spikey looking buds that dramatically foxtail when grown outdoors in the bright sun and hot temperatures. Usually indoors, the foxtailing does not get out of control and this building on the top of the existing bud is just the way the buds build out, usually vertically, but these little spires often develop at the very end of the grow in a process we call the final bud swell and appear all over the still developing bud as you can see in this first picture.
We are cutting the very tip top of the bud, which acts just like a topping... we are in fact topping the bud itself. This sends the growth hormones down lower, just as a normal topping would do earlier in life. At this point in the grow, it just sends the growth points down lower in the bud, not lower in the plant.
Not all foxtailing is bad. The pictures above show perfectly smokable buds that just look odd, because foxtailing got out of control. We are simply backbuilding, by convincing the bud to not grow vertically any longer because of the cut. Since the cause is not environmental, the stressors to produce out of control foxtailing are not there, so we don't get so dramatic response as these pictures, the buds just get wider.
Hope this helps!
I see no indication that this tip-topping affects any of the buds below it on the branch... only the buds getting the cut have this reaction.Yep, it sure does. Perfect. So lemme ask one clarification question - you say this: At this point in the grow, it just sends the growth points down lower in the bud, not lower in the plant.
Does this mean only the bud that you top is affected? So it's only the big colas that become all chunky like yours are? Or does the topping affect any buds below that, at least on the branch you topped the bud on? Does the effect maybe only go as low as a certain point?
Hope those questions make sense.
Now I think I know why my grows seem to take longer especially near the end. Watch and learn live and learnBloom - 6 weeks
Geoflora Feed - Day 7
Wet/Dry Cycle - Day 0
Number of fast waterings - 0
33 Days since last SNS Foliar, SNS 209 given on each watering
Length of Grow - 3 months, 3 weeks, 1 day
Today was watering day, finally, and the girls all took it like champs. No problems were noted as a result of this forced drought, but no obvious gains were noted either. As far as I can tell the buds just keep building. We are now in the magical last two weeks, at least for some of them, and in the next few days I will be centering in on some buds that are showing me that this is indeed the case. For some of them, consider me still very skeptical that they will be finishing out that quickly. That big bud we are keeping our eyes on... it is as airey as it can be... if it were harvested now it would dry down to nothing... but of course it is a long ways from harvest.
That was 7 days between waterings, with one mini watering at the 4 day point. If I had watered on the every 3 day schedule, all of these plants would be stalled completely at this point and I probably would have added 2 more weeks to the grow. I have learned to watch for these slowdowns... it can be critical to miss one.
The gnats are slowly coming back and I probably should have sprayed again last week when I started noticing more of them, but I don't think they are going to be a problem with the SNS 209 going in with the water every time. The gnats just aren't taking it seriously and I don't think that they are going to be able to do much by the end of the grow to take hold. Next time, at the 20 day point after not seeing hardly any bugs, I will do a PM spraying, to avoid getting back to this point later in the bloom and wondering about bugs. Live and learn as they say.
So there we go, the big one we have been all excited about may be an actual too much light foxtail... or not... we just don't know yet. At least she takes pretty pictures!
I am glad to have given you a clue. I suspect that a lot of folks who believe you must keep blooming soil wet, have the same problem at some point in their grows.Now I think I know why my grows seem to take longer especially near the end. Watch and learn live and learn