I never tracked runoff, it was like chasing ghosts.
COCO DTW Multi-Feed White Widow GH Maxi CFL
- Thread starter BluePhoric
- Start date
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
I'm happy to still be in soil...it seems much less complicated.
It can be but coco is pretty simple if folks don't try to over complicate it.
Remystemple
Well-Known Member
Had some similar issues starting my grow. currently having the yellow leaves like you described. Just last night and today did a pretty big flush.
Subbed up! i'll be watching and learning, buddy. good luck.
Subbed up! i'll be watching and learning, buddy. good luck.
Hempy isn't bad either... BTW. I love your avatar.
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- #26
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
Coco is not complicated, and not much work Mota. I monitor/adjust things frequently, but it doesn't take much time. I was tired of hand watering soil and dealing with gnats, etc. THAT was time consuming and tiring for me.
It's actually a lot of fun, and it's very quick to react, so at first sign of a problem, it can be fixed in a matter of hours.
(I hated running into a problem in soil, and waiting a week to see if a little change did good or bad).
It is true that on a first grow in coco (and new nutes, new watering system, calmag, etc), witch is my case, there are many things to dial in.
Using my tap water (160ppm)... it already contains some amount of Cal+mag. I relied on that to be enough at first, but ran into a Cal deficiency. Fixed within 24 hours.
I went overboard and gave full dosage CalMag supplement... Was too much on the long run. Dialed back to 50% dosage for now. We'll see exactly how much would be best. Maybe 1/4 instead of 1/2.
Dialing the reservoir... knowing how many days it can last before bacteria takes hold... etc.
But making a DETAILED spreadsheet like I'm doing, It's gonna get simpler and simpler. I note everything I do, and yes, runoff EC is one of the things that show tendencies.
On a next grow, all this data will steer me to the right amount of nutes at different stages. What watering frequency, how many ml of runoff is ideal, etc. All that will become INTUITIVE and I'll be able to play it by ear, like PW, I guess.
BTW, I'm not over-complicating anything. I like to have a scientific approach and understand what I'm doing. It's my favorite pass-time to learn things, more than the grow itself.
BP
It's actually a lot of fun, and it's very quick to react, so at first sign of a problem, it can be fixed in a matter of hours.
(I hated running into a problem in soil, and waiting a week to see if a little change did good or bad).
It is true that on a first grow in coco (and new nutes, new watering system, calmag, etc), witch is my case, there are many things to dial in.
Using my tap water (160ppm)... it already contains some amount of Cal+mag. I relied on that to be enough at first, but ran into a Cal deficiency. Fixed within 24 hours.
I went overboard and gave full dosage CalMag supplement... Was too much on the long run. Dialed back to 50% dosage for now. We'll see exactly how much would be best. Maybe 1/4 instead of 1/2.
Dialing the reservoir... knowing how many days it can last before bacteria takes hold... etc.
But making a DETAILED spreadsheet like I'm doing, It's gonna get simpler and simpler. I note everything I do, and yes, runoff EC is one of the things that show tendencies.
On a next grow, all this data will steer me to the right amount of nutes at different stages. What watering frequency, how many ml of runoff is ideal, etc. All that will become INTUITIVE and I'll be able to play it by ear, like PW, I guess.
BTW, I'm not over-complicating anything. I like to have a scientific approach and understand what I'm doing. It's my favorite pass-time to learn things, more than the grow itself.
BP
- Thread starter
- #27
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
I ain't afraid of no ghosts... so I like to read articles like these, written by agronomists/horticulturists, etc. :
How to Manage Run-off EC - Coco For Cannabis
This morning, on first watering, my EC in/out was : 544/690 : diff + 146.
Between +150 and +300 and I'm very happy. It's just when it goes +400 it gets me worried. And at +400 the plant shows signs that something is wrong anyway.
Today, I'll try to go from 3 to 4 waterings, and also give a little more runoff. I think I was having around 10% runoff... I'l try to have more around 20-25% each time, and see if EC stays more stable instead of climbing.
Have a nice Monday !
BP
How to Manage Run-off EC - Coco For Cannabis
This morning, on first watering, my EC in/out was : 544/690 : diff + 146.
Between +150 and +300 and I'm very happy. It's just when it goes +400 it gets me worried. And at +400 the plant shows signs that something is wrong anyway.
Today, I'll try to go from 3 to 4 waterings, and also give a little more runoff. I think I was having around 10% runoff... I'l try to have more around 20-25% each time, and see if EC stays more stable instead of climbing.
Have a nice Monday !
BP
This is what growing is about, you are testing to see where you will feel best with growing
I know you will do well.
I know you will do well.
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- #29
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #30
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
I remember that some previous grows in soil were not all that un-complicated... ;-)
MotaFina
Well-Known Member
Ain't that the truth!!
NOOOBIENOT
Well-Known Member
Hey B.P. the plant looks great white widow is a nice strain to grow I have done 3 plants and they yielded well , just my 2 cents but if you have $200 bucks kickin around buy yourself a R.O. system. I installed 1 about a month ago ($200 on Amazon -5 stage ) took my water ppm from 600 to 45 ppm and all my headaches pretty much went away when it comes to nutes and ppm.All I needed were a couple of fittings and some 1/4 in tubing , now I fill 4 ltr bottles and nutes and dump in to my reservoir, good for a whole week , just check my numbers on reservoir every morning and good to go , good luck !!P.S. we have a water softer too the reason for such high ppm to start with .
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- #33
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
Thanks Nooob...
RO Could be interesting in some future... But my tap water is at 150-160 ppms and PH 7.2, witch is not bad. Plant looks amazing. I'm just fiddling a bit with every parameter to find some sweet equilibrium in my system. I'll re-evaluate at the end of the grow, to see if an RO system would have made things better/easier.
- Thread starter
- #34
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
Runoff update, 8 waterings later;
After mini-flush and dropping % of CalMag in solution and augmenting watering frequency and % runoff.
Runoff ppm differential is stabilizing around +100.
I think I could safely bring that up to 200-240.
I'm certain that I had some excess of Calcium in the media. Excess Calcium was contributing to the accumulation of salts in my coco (runoff ppms staying high), and limiting uptake of nutrients (mostly Potassium, Iron, Magnesium, Manganese). I had a few (3-4) lower leaves turning yellow and dying very quickly during 2 days, but that has stopped and not progressed.
I will top my reservoir with a little more nutes. I'll try to adjust for ~600ppms and see.
BP
After mini-flush and dropping % of CalMag in solution and augmenting watering frequency and % runoff.
Runoff ppm differential is stabilizing around +100.
I think I could safely bring that up to 200-240.
I'm certain that I had some excess of Calcium in the media. Excess Calcium was contributing to the accumulation of salts in my coco (runoff ppms staying high), and limiting uptake of nutrients (mostly Potassium, Iron, Magnesium, Manganese). I had a few (3-4) lower leaves turning yellow and dying very quickly during 2 days, but that has stopped and not progressed.
I will top my reservoir with a little more nutes. I'll try to adjust for ~600ppms and see.
BP
NOOOBIENOT
Well-Known Member
Ps , anything over 100 ppm is not a good water to grow with , it has too many different elements in it, you don't know what they are , iron , calcium , chlorimide salt etc , I like r.o. water because I have total control as to what my plants get and it is easier to get the ph correct and just the exact amount of nutes to your plants not 160 ppm of who knows what ad 300 ppm of the nutes I know they need .
NOOOBIENOT
Well-Known Member
great job on the ppm drop keeping around 100 ppm difference is perfect , the salt could also be in the 160 ppm of your original water .I ph my water at 5.8 and the run off is 5.9 -6 .0 , see if you can get your ph a little bit closer on the run off .Glad to hear you plants are doing well great job !!!
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- #37
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
I think "my" coco is buffered to "stay" at 6.5
From the start, it's always been at 6.5 (with mini variations), independently of what I put in.
Also, I read many-many times that runoff PH is highly unreliable.
Never did the wet-coco-sample-test-thing.
I presume, from the runoff, that the PH in the root-zone is higher than the PH going in.
That is why I keep my PH in the lower range (5.5 - 5.8) most of the time, and it's going very well since being doing that.
The PH in my Res has a climbing tendency, and I presume that this PH-rising-tendency continues once in the growing media.
This doesnt seem uncommon; I read it on several forums. (stubborn runoff in the higher 6s). Read several growers feeding at 5.5 and having their best results in that range, and no so much if going 5.8-6.2.
You are right, tap water is what I used from the start, and it may be responsable for some things, like a more awkward PH management.
Then again, once the interactions in the environment are understood and controlled... it's all good for me.
Switching to RO right now... that would completely change the current balance of things, and I wont go there.
If plant was unhappy, that'd be different.
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- #38
BluePhoric
Well-Known Member
11 days after flip...
NOOOBIENOT
Well-Known Member
yes you are correct those plants look great , the old saying is if it isn't broken don't try to fix it , my comments on the r.o. thing were more for future grows , it would be to much of a change now for these plants.Get your pipe ready as these plants look like some nice smoke yum yum !!
Healthy looking happy girls 
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