Dick23rk's Fresh Start: Mantis Nutrients Featuring MedicGrow's New Spectrum X+ 880w Light Panel

We'll get this fixed- I've seen it before. I'm just stumped on my memory and if GG can't help or isn't around, we'll find someone.

If I may be so bold? In the meantime- turn your light down a tad, and raise your reservoir temps closer to 20C
I did have the light turned right down to 30%, that it's the lowest setting for it, was set there for 4 days. I just turned it up some this morning.

I should be able to get the res Temps up a couple degrees though, if inturn my exhaust up it will pull in warm air from the basement which the furnace is set at 20 or so. I had them at 19 at one point. Not sure how accurate these thermometers are either, my pen gives a slightly higher reading
 
I did have the light turned right down to 30%, that it's the lowest setting for it, was set there for 4 days. I just turned it up some this morning.

I should be able to get the res Temps up a couple degrees though, if inturn my exhaust up it will pull in warm air from the basement which the furnace is set at 20 or so. I had them at 19 at one point. Not sure how accurate these thermometers are either, my pen gives a slightly higher reading
My apologies, I didn't catch that it was there for days.
Sometimes I've seen in my grows that a few degrees of warmth in the roots can perk them up. Its a fine line to inviting pathogens at 21C ? and above (and isn't always recommended), but at that temp and the way things are going I'd say raise it- at this point it won't hurt and might be what they need.
 
I’ve spent way more time thinking about this problem and researching it than I’d like to admit. It’s frustrating to have plants that appear otherwise healthy but are listless and not progressing. Don’t drop new seeds yet. We got this. I’m sure one of us will have an “aha” moment. I doubt it’s water temp since I keep mine at 19C, but it sure won’t hurt to try. Maybe those plants are just sensitive to temp.
 
My apologies, I didn't catch that it was there for days.
Sometimes I've seen in my grows that a few degrees of warmth in the roots can perk them up. Its a fine line to inviting pathogens at 21C ? and above (and isn't always recommended), but at that temp and the way things are going I'd say raise it- at this point it won't hurt and might be what they need.
I had it up to 19 before lights out but back to 18 overnight. I'd hate to have to put a small heater in there as it's not going to help with the humidity. I will drop a mercury fish tank thermometer in there today after work to see how accurate my digital thermometers and pen are before going crazy over a degree or 2
I’ve spent way more time thinking about this problem and researching it than I’d like to admit. It’s frustrating to have plants that appear otherwise healthy but are listless and not progressing. Don’t drop new seeds yet. We got this. I’m sure one of us will have an “aha” moment. I doubt it’s water temp since I keep mine at 19C, but it sure won’t hurt to try. Maybe those plants are just sensitive to temp.
I very muchly appreciate the help you are providing and the time it's taken you. It certainly is frustrating though to not know what's causing the issues. It's one thing to have an issue, know what it is and then accept whether you can beat it or not.. but to have something going on that no one can quite put their finger on makes it more brain racking.
What ever is going on it's starting to make the lower leaves curl and get kind of dry but deficiencies of some sort start showing first. Spots are working up to the top leaves now. I'll get better pics when I'm home from work.
 
I had been talking to the rep previously about the calcium spots I was seeing but not about this issue in particular.

@MANTISmike you have any ideas what could be going on here? Ph and tds seem to be staying within range every time I check it. Res Temps stick around 18-19 pretty steady. New light has been up for 5 days now, had it turned all the way down, tried turning it up, no difference. Added a little h2o2 to the res yesterday to make sure nothing is growing. Humidity is a big issue, but the potted plants are ok aside from growing slow, a couple have deficiencies starting on lower leaves.

Thanks guys
 
Hey, Dick! :ciao:

I'm all caught up (again) and find myself intrigued by your DWC issue.

I'm reluctant to weigh in because I haven't done DWC in several years and I honestly would need a refresher to remember how to go about it properly. But I'm not going to let that stop me from putting in my 2 cents worth! :Rasta:

When I saw the pics of your bubbles several pages back I thought, "Wow. That's a lot of bubbles!" When I was running DWC I had fairly good results and I never generated that amount of bubbles, nor did I use an air stone as large as the one you are using.

Back when I was first researching how to go about DWC I "think" I remember reading that too much bubbling can be a bad thing. (Don't hold me to this, as I said, I "think" I remember reading that.)

Anyway, take that for what it's worth, which may not even be 2 cents. :laughtwo:


You may want to try using smaller air stones to see if that helps. I grew in 5 gallon buckets and used these air stones with satisfactory results:
IMG_2621.jpg


Good luck and happy growing!
 
Hey, Dick! :ciao:

I'm all caught up (again) and find myself intrigued by your DWC issue.

I'm reluctant to weigh in because I haven't done DWC in several years and I honestly would need a refresher to remember how to go about it properly. But I'm not going to let that stop me from putting in my 2 cents worth! :Rasta:

When I saw the pics of your bubbles several pages back I thought, "Wow. That's a lot of bubbles!" When I was running DWC I had fairly good results and I never generated that amount of bubbles, nor did I use an air stone as large as the one you are using.

Back when I was first researching how to go about DWC I "think" I remember reading that too much bubbling can be a bad thing. (Don't hold me to this, as I said, I "think" I remember reading that.)

Anyway, take that for what it's worth, which may not even be 2 cents. :laughtwo:


You may want to try using smaller air stones to see if that helps. I grew in 5 gallon buckets and used these air stones with satisfactory results:
IMG_2621.jpg


Good luck and happy growing!
Hey there GDB, thanks for stopping by. Your 2 cents is welcome anytime my friend, feel free.

Now that you mention this, I believe I read that as well but could never find a solid answer on the question of "how much is too much."

Do you think maybe there's too much turbulence down in the res where the roots are sitting?

This is a good observation, because most things we read about dwc is to get a big pump, big stones and tons of bubbles. So maybe there is a fine line there somewhere and I've found it? I won't rule out the idea GDB and I thank you for the input.

When I get home, I will switch to a smaller stone, I have some skinny 4 inch bars and also some small round stones. If 1 x 4" bar still looks like too much, I will try 1 or 2 of the small 1" stones. Kind of glad I have a fish tank to have all these extras lol
 
I had it up to 19 before lights out but back to 18 overnight. I'd hate to have to put a small heater in there as it's not going to help with the humidity. I will drop a mercury fish tank thermometer in there today after work to see how accurate my digital thermometers and pen are before going crazy over a degree or 2

This was what concerned me. You may be having periods of lower temp hitting 17 (maybe colder while your sleeping) prior to you seeing the rise back to 18?
Anyhow it's my 2 cents. Cold temps in the root zone in Hydroponics causes certain nutrients uptake to be inhibited and/or lockouts. It will leave you scratching your head.



I won't raise the temp idea again, cause Rider and others on here are WAY more experienced, just wanted to better explain my reasoning.

Hope it gets solved my friend :Namaste:
 
@Grand Daddy Black you son of a gun! You just might have been right. I completely forgot to tell you guys that this morning when I noticed nothing had changed from the night before, I actually reduced the air going to the stones by closing the valve slightly.

I just got home and went in to check on the plants and noticed that the top sets of leaves have started to lift back up some, mostly on bucket 1. (I will post comparison shots below)
After that I thought hey, I'll just close the valves a little until I change out air stones and bam, it hit me, I already shut them a little in the morning just to see what happens because I was reading up on too little DO as well as how much is too much bubbles.

It's been a hell of a couple days around here so I completely forgot I did that and even didn't clue in that I was reading about it last night.

So I closed the valves about half way on my air pump manifol, checked the buckets to see that they were at least still making a decent amount of bubbles and set everything back in place. Now we will wait and see.

Bucket #1
After

Before

Bucket #2
After

Before


And here is the difference in new node growth from the last 3 days in order on bucket #1. They are still growing.



 
I hope I was right, Dick! That you could adjust the valves is a plus. Now you can leave those stones in place. :Rasta:

Who knows, when that root ball is nearly filling up all the space you may need to turn it back up!
 
I read an excellent article on turgor pressure on Wikipedia yesterday trying to suss out this problem. Plants that exhibit low turgidity are wilted and slow growing, just like yours, Dick. There are a number of mechanisms at play that can affect the turgid pressure, also known as the hydrostatic pressure, but an overabundance of bubbles in hydro... whoda thunk?

 
@Grand Daddy Black was spot on. :thumb: :thumb:

Excessive Bubbling​

A bubbler hydroponics system needs to have plenty of bubbles, but it is possible to get too much of a good thing. A lot of vigorous bubbling, such as might be caused by a pump that’s too strong for the system, can actually damage the plants. The bubbles will get in and around the delicate roots, shifting them about and possibly breaking off bits and pieces. Too much of this can end up killing the plants in a bubbler system.
 
Props for thinking outside the box, GBD. I would have never in a bazillion years considered that as a culprit. Learned something new today!
That's what I figured too, people all.over the internet saying you can never have too many bubbles. But never mention the turbulence it makes too.
How high does the water sit in the buckets?
When I top up its just below the net pots and inch or so.
I hope I was right, Dick! That you could adjust the valves is a plus. Now you can leave those stones in place. :Rasta:

Who knows, when that root ball is nearly filling up all the space you may need to turn it back up!
Yeah that's a bonus, as long as it's not effecting my air pump we good! Let's hopenthey start lifting some more over the next day or so.
Hey Dick,

Great to see the little ladies perking up a bit! I think that this is because you upped the light intensity a bit but whatever it was it looks as though they are heading in the right direction :)
Thats what I'm hoping. I was trying to gather as much info as possible.
I read an excellent article on turgor pressure on Wikipedia yesterday trying to suss out this problem. Plants that exhibit low turgidity are wilted and slow growing, just like yours, Dick. There are a number of mechanisms at play that can affect the turgid pressure, also known as the hydrostatic pressure, but an overabundance of bubbles in hydro... whoda thunk?

I will check this out, that's one I haven't heard of before. Thank you
@Grand Daddy Black was spot on. :thumb: :thumb:

Excessive Bubbling​

A bubbler hydroponics system needs to have plenty of bubbles, but it is possible to get too much of a good thing. A lot of vigorous bubbling, such as might be caused by a pump that’s too strong for the system, can actually damage the plants. The bubbles will get in and around the delicate roots, shifting them about and possibly breaking off bits and pieces. Too much of this can end up killing the plants in a bubbler system.
This makes a lot more sense as well.


Thanks so much to all of you who helped out with this issue in any way possible. It is greatly appreciated!! This community is wonderful.

On another note just so you all know.. I will be starting a new journal for my dwc projects/trials. I figure it's a better way to go to keep them separate, also since the system may change, it would be nice to.keep all my hydro stuff in one place. Hopefully I can get something rigged up by the weekend and I will post the link here for you all. Until then, I will still keep you all updated on this.

:thanks:
 
**Quick DWC Update**

Morning folks. Just stopping in with a quick note on the dwc buckets, I'll get another full update done tonight.

I checked on the bucket plants this morning before work and it appears we have some more movement from the leaves. The lower sets of leaves (although very unsightly) on both plants are starting to lift off the bucket lids! Another step in the right direction I'd say. The node growth is still pushing out nicely.

Not much difference in the upper set of leaves since last night. Bucket 2's top set is still nice and green, hoping they will perk back up soon. Bucket 1 is just full of deficiencies or so it looks, new growth looks good. Let's hope it slows down as they get back on their feet.

We may never know exactly what it was as there were a few changes during this time. The biggest 2 being the new light with its intensity and possible damaged roots from too much turbulence in the res. I'm leaning more towards the turbulence, I will have to experiment in the future. Anyways, here's a few pics from this morning.






 
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