Euphoria Unchained

[Fuzznutter]

I sure hope someone has an answer for you. The better lighting and varying shots should help a lot. If noone has a better suggestion, I would flush and feed as normally recommended and just roll with it for the rest of the grow. At least you're already well into flowering. It may not be ideal, but you should still get a decent harvest from the ladies. Though with this being an ongoing issue, you might want to consider changing to a different soil mix for the next round.

Edit: As an after thought...when you harvest the plants, take a close look at the roots. See if they're white and healthy or if any parts are brown and sick looking. Maybe something is going on there that is causing these issues???

 

[Tomula]

I personally think it is phosphorus deficiency. Or something that locks out phosphorus. PH is ok I guess, right? 5.5 sounds bit harsh. Go 6.5 or even 7 and test the output water too! Note, that phosphorus is not taken well by the plan under 6.5 PH. Do not give up yet! Cheers!

 

[1ofaKind]

My current thought are just a combo of what everyone is saying: Mg and P deficiency caused by nute lockout, I am still pondering the 8.0 ph of the runoff, so more of a ph nut lockout than overferted.

@ Tomula: Maybe so... then all I would need is one of those really high P ferts. Easy fix, and that would explain why it is happening with the best bloomers....

Leaning towards top dressing with lime and flushing.

Possibly sledgehammer....

I'll consult with the local hydro if possible...

Thanks everyone.

 

[1ofaKind]

Confessions of a cannabis farmer:

My idea of flushing a 7 gal pot was 4 gallons of water as apposed to my normal 1.5 watering...

I'm finally learning that more is more and less is less...

I'm about 28 gallons into a flush here, and her runoff is still 7.5... molasses gone bad?

I thought all those organics were good for em'. Guess they were just gunking up the roots...

So this took forever and I'll be up late waiting for serious 6 to drain. Maybe I'll do one plant a night for the whole week...

A little damage to a side stem after pulling her out.

Now I am concerned: Nutes locked out, now nutes flushed out, and it will take a while for her to dry out... se la vi

 

[Fuzznutter]

Hmm...they say organic stuff does not work well in hydroponic setups. With that hydroton at the bottom of the pot, maybe it's creating a little hydroponic pocket. How often did you use molasses? Is your pot elevated off the ground so air reaches the bottom of the pot or is it sitting flat against a solid surface? The more I think about it, the more I suspect the hydroton may be "at the root" of your problem. Sorry, I know this is a serious situation. I don't have any experience with fixing root issues though and, being so far into flowering, I have no idea what to suggest if that is the case. Anyone know?

Did you give the plants nutes after the flush? Technically, I believe the idea with flushing is to use 3 gallons of water per gallon pot size. So with a 3-gallon pot you'd run 9 gallons of water through it, 21 gallons for a 7-gallon pot. It's a lot of water, but what is most commonly recommended last I checked. I think with some mediums such as Hempy's perlite/vermiculite you can probably get away with using a little less. I did. Soil mixes need a lot of water though. However, I don't even know if flushing is the right thing to do with root issues. It seems like it would be a good idea to clean up the roots, though likely not an actual fix to the problem, but I really don't know.

I'd love it if you could take a peek at the roots, but with the hdyroton in there, I doubt that would be possible without damaging them. *Sigh* Someone needs to make peak-a-boo pots.

 

[1ofaKind]

The hydrotons are not at the bottom of the pot. They are evenly mixed in. It was a 10 liter bag in 7 pots, so 1.5 liters of hydrotons in 7 gallon pots: so 5% of the mix is hydroton, evenly mixed, less than 5% rice hulls, and maybe 15% pearlite.

I was just pouring in some molasses every other water or so.... to the bucket / tea 24 hours before. I have used about 1/3 gal on 7 plants, so 3/4 of a cup in each plant over the course of 2 months... Not too extreme. That is 12 tablespoons, or, at most, 2 tbs per week per 7 gal pot...

I have used a half gallon of Budswell and 1.5 liters of Big Bloom, and some Tiger Bloom. When I look at the actual figures, its not that much IMO.

Anywho, hope the big flush with 28 gal on Serious6 will pay off! I did add 1TSP of Beastie Budz to the last gal of flush, just to give back the P she seemed to need. Tonight I will flush Kali Mist and Blue Cindy. The others will be flushed Sunday if I can bubble enough water...

Kali is super wobbly / leggy. She is so tall and with the lockout, may have some problems keeping up / not falling over.

The pots are on saucers that have some ribbing. I believe this is a ph lockout based upon the 8.0 runoff and dark brown color. I believe the roots are fine, just needed to be cleaned. Yes, I would prefer to and planed to have them on fish line grates, but the tent got too full... Maybe I will try it on a couple...

It may take a while to see improvement. They have been overwatered for the past week as I kept trying to "add something" to fix a problem that needed me to take away. Now that they have plain water, the nutrient deficiency may continue until the next feeding, and with all that water, it may take 6 days to dry out... Sure don't want root rot.

So I went to the store and looked at the lime I have been hearing so much about... It says it raises PH, but I hear others say it will not raise it past 7.0. True or not? I'm my case, it would lower the ph... I also saw Sulphur. It said it acidifies or lowers ph..... Should I add both? I need lower ph with the RO water I am flushing with. I need higher ph when I add nutes... And I'm not sure top dressing will really work since I did not mix in these materials to begin with.

I am learning so much! This thread was particularly interesting:

Adjusting your pH when growing in soil damaging your plants!

Although it kinda knocks me as a noob. Se la vi. The guy at the hydro store said the same thing to me: I can't help you. I don't mix chemical ferts with organic soil....

here is S6 before the flush.

 

[Fuzznutter]

While there is a problem, the plants don't look all that bad. They appear to still be budding nicely. Such resiliency!

I know I said it before but, for myself, trying the coir-based soil mix with organic was challenging. All the problems went away when I just switched entirely to bottled nutes though. I haven't had a wrestling match with the plants since. The heavy salts and such in bottled nutes do nothing to support the microbial life in the soil that is the basis for organics. I believe the hydro store guy is right, you really can't have it both ways. One or the other is best.

I've never used RO water, but I've never heard of it requiring a different pH range to use. Considering the exact problem has yet to be identified, I'd be leery of adding things like lime or sulfur to your soil unless someone with more knowledge, taking into account your unique soil mix, can offer specific advice. (As an aside, the Epsom salt supplements sulfur as well as magnesium.) Is there a reason you don't want to just use bottled pH up or down for the remainder of the grow? It seems like it would provide more exact control over the pH at this point.

 

[Tomula]

Hey, it doesn't look that bad the new growth looks fine, cut off the damaged leaves/tips and watch her go on I think she will make it just fine. Good luck, you are doing great so far. Do not be worried with the mistakes, everyone makes them. I think you've made beautiful mistakes and I want to see more! No grade down from me, no, no. Have a nice weekend!

 

[1ofaKind]

More confused than ever...

Flushed 4 more girls yesterday. I swear, the runoff looked super dark to begin with, but didn't run clear, even after a lot of water (20 gal per pot)

Before

After

PH was more confusing:

before

after

ro water fill your own jug from pigglywiggly

The begin samples were takes after a few gal, but I cant tell if that is a blue green, yellow green? They kinda look both. Guess I should invest in a pen...

So before and after close. And the RO from the store is the same ph as my tap, which makes since because we are the same water source. I though RO would make it 7.0 though...

I did add some Beastie Blooms to the final gallon, which is where the yellow is coming from in the final after.

I hope the RO was not treated after with minerals... it didn't say it was, but it had a taste...

 

[1ofaKind]

Another piece of confusion was how the plants, well, as few branches at least, just fall over when the other plants are not there to support them... Maybe they lean on each other so much they are weaker than usual? Or maybe the lockout has weakened them.

I have been using silicon for my first time. I guess it didn't get in the plants. Possible contributed to the lockout.

Arjans Haze 3 is still the skinniest and the worst leaner.

Here is blue cindy. She had a few leaners, but looks healthy

Here is Kali Mist in the tent. I decided to put some string around her, like a Christmas tree...

Here is Utopia, looking sturdier than the others. She was always wet / heavy, so she was watered / fed less often.

The mostly empty tent

I will try to flush strawberry and Buddha in the tent, as they are now buried in the back...

 

[Fuzznutter]

If you're struggling to differentiate color then a good-quality pen would be a wise investment. The pH is one thing you don't really want to guess on. As an aside, did you know women can detect different shades of color better than men? My husband also struggles to make out the different shades of color with liquid pH testing - or anything for that matter. For once, being a woman has benefits.

 

[Hyena Merica]

The begin samples were takes after a few gal, but I cant tell if that is a blue green, yellow green? They kinda look both. Guess I should invest in a pen...

Just a random chime-in...

You HAVE TO HAVE a PH pen. They're about $30 online or hydro store. There are a lot of rules to successful growing, but here's a big one: Proper PH = Everything else added together. It's that important.

If plants are too far out of the proper PH range for a week you can set them back a month or even kill them because they can't uptake crucial nutrients outside that range. You can't guess, bro.

Best thirty bucks you will ever spend. Hope that helps. Keep it up!

Peace, Hyena

 

[1ofaKind]

Laughing Buddha and Strawberry got a flush with 13 gal each.

Not as much water as the others, but they didn't get as much ferts either...

But their runoff was really dark, just like the others.

Trying to get all the plants stand / leaning on each other in the tent again without strings.

Strawberry then Buddha

 

[1ofaKind]

S6 was dry yesterday. I gave her water with Beastie Bloomz (half strength) and a little MagiCal. And I sprinkled a tsp of lime on top of the soil. I did not ph the water after adding the fert. I'm trying to keep the TDS to a minimum while addressing possible mag or p deficiencies.

She looks a little yellow today... Need more? Needs less? I don't know.

Kali Mist, who is now leaning in the back, lookin shady, is light as a feather. She is getting the same nutes as S6 as we type.

The plants were rearranged. I would have to look at the tags to tell who is who at this point... aside from yellow S6 and tall girl...

 

[1ofaKind]

All right, these ladies were babies as of September 24. That makes them 75 days old.

The 12 / 12 flip was November 1, so 38 days since flip.

They took at least 2 weeks to really begin to flower, so I will call it 3.5 weeks in for the early bloomers!

So that is my call. Some would say it is 5.5 weeks into flower, but keep blooming 2 weeks past the breeder recommendation.

Restricting flower time to start when definite flowers are present results in the plant usually finishing in the breeders time frame!

Just my way of coping.

So S6 is the fastest finisher @ 55-60 days, or 30 - 35 days from now!

She is looking frosty! Or maybe it's just the camera? Yellow n frosty!

I'm not sure if the deficiency will affect the flower time.

 

[1ofaKind]

Just another day here. Utopia haze is dry today, so I have been watering just 1 plant each day.

Still documenting the plants. I feel like they are still yellowing more and more.

Maybe after a couple more days I will be able to see it in each days pictures.

 

[Tomula]

The damaged leaves will die eventually I think it almost stopped now the new growth looks good. But then I don't really use bottled nutes. I wish you good luck with them!

 

[1ofaKind]

I am still not sure it is over. Utopia is looking a little more yellow today, after I watered yesterday. Will continue to monitor.

 

[1ofaKind]

Not my best pics... I keep getting in there late, don't want to feel depressed... they are not looking better...

With all that said, they are not looking much worse, either. But some of these will not be ready for 8 more weeks...

Serious 6 has it bad, Kali Mist is loosing a lot, too, and falling all over the place.

Utopia is getting it worse and worse.

Blue Cindy has a few minor leaves showing.

All others look fine. Strawberry is immature and small in stature... Must have been an unusual seed???

Laughing Buddha has the thickest cola, surprisingly... she has been out of direct light most. Makes me wonder of there is too much light in there??? I don't think so, but I am open to anything at this point.

Arjan 3 lookin fine She has the most spicy aroma, the Kali. Utopia and S6 smell like candy and fruit. Some others have some nice smells, but fairly standard. I can't get to Strawberry to smell her, but she has so few tricomes still...

So I feel more distant from the garden.

Might go back to RO water...

Gave organic tea a couple days ago. With mild nutes. Did not help...

 

[1ofaKind]

Def. worse...

Guess I'll flush again...

Just hope they give a enough to taste each. Some are still perfectly green, which makes me wonder...

Since the last flush I have not ph'd the water. Thought I would go all natural

Guess they just needed straight water....