In The Lab

[Doc Bud]

I havent gave them any growth energy or drenches yet as they dont have 5 sets of leaves. The ones that were really yellow and dry were just the bottom first set but the others seem to be headed that way. I've been spraying them with water with my mister to keep the soil moist... Unless I'm not supposed to do that? I've only watered them 3 times now including this morning with transplant.

Is there a way to post pics without a URL?

Did you mix up and cook your soil for a month?
Was it cold when you cooked the soil?

Please read the earlier pages of this journal and there are easy tutorials on how to water in veg, etc.

Give them a feeding like I instructed above, and keep the P1200's about 30 or more inches above the young ones.

 

[incontrol7]

Doc, you keep reiterating I re-read the instructions, which I have dozens of times. The soil cooked for about 6 weeks at about 63-70 degrees. It was cooler so I let it sit for longer.

When do you consider a seedling a vegging plant? Is it after 5 sets of leaves? I would say a couple plants are about there but some are a week or 2 apart.

 

[AlwayzBlazin]

From what your saying it does seem like your overwatering.
What size container did you plant your seeds in?

 

[Doc Bud]

Doc, you keep reiterating I re-read the instructions, which I have dozens of times. The soil cooked for about 6 weeks at about 63-70 degrees. It was cooler so I let it sit for longer.

When do you consider a seedling a vegging plant? Is it after 5 sets of leaves? I would say a couple plants are about there but some are a week or 2 apart.

OK...I don't see anywhere where I've advocated spraying them with water to keep the soil moist. I do advocate deep soakings, followed by letting them really dry out.

I did find this on page one of this very thread:

In The Lab

Watering Technique for Vegetative Growth

Vegetative growth is all about preparing the plant to bloom. Isn't that what it's all about, the bloom? Who cares how nice they look in veg....we want the finished product, period.

Having said that, the single most important thing to achieve prior to blooming is a robust, very large root system. I want a gallon sized rootball, nearly rootbound, when I transplant and bloom. Here's how I do it:

We'll assume the reader is using proper soil, good water, and is in a proper environment.

Back in my Hempy days, I learned very fast that it takes a week or so for the roots to grow about 10 inches down to the bottom of the pot. The plants really took off once those roots hit the moist reservoir at the bottom of the pot.

It's the same deal with soil. Most of the moisture is in the "perched water table" at the bottom of the pot.

1.)Soak the medium at the first transplanting of fresh, rooted clones into soil. Water very light again a few days later, just to moisten the top of the medium. Do not soak it again.

2.)Do not water again until the plants look like they're starting to droop. Give them a good watering at this point.

3.)Again, wait until they're starting to droop for lack of water (probably now a good 8-10 days after transplant) and this time place the pots in a tub of water and really soak the roots. As they drain, tilt the pots this way and that to try to pour off as much of the perched water table as possible.

4.)Again wait till they droop and this time give them a good feeding, making sure to add beneficials being careful to soak them.

By letting them dry out we're forcing the roots to really work at finding moisture and they'll quickly fill the pots, which is what we want. The growth you see up top will be far less spectacular, but there will be one important gain that experienced growers will appreciate:

The plants will be smaller with tighter internodes. This is because all the energy has been put into the roots, not the foliage.

At this point, the leaves will really take off, but the plant will be root bound pretty bad, so if you're trying to do a 2 plants SCOG or grow montrous trees, a second veg transplant will be needed. I like to prune up these small plants, take cuttings and put them into bloom pretty fast.

One of the worst problems you can have is a great big mass of green leaves with a substandard root system. Plants like that simply can't keep up with the demands of flowering their roots aren't up to the task.

On the other hand, having great roots and not so much foliage (you'll still have lovely leaves, just not as many) means the plant isn't wasting energy just trying to feed what's already there, or desperately trying to grow roots....it has all kinds of spare energy to concentrate on blooming!

Instead of doubling in size, my plants quadruple in size sometimes. The leaf to calyx ratio is better.....fewer leaves, more buds.

And best of all, there are so many roots that it makes it very hard to overwater and drown the roots.

Roots! That's the most important thing to accomplish for a vigorous bloom. These simple techniques aren't the ONLY way; they may not even be the best way....but they certainly work consistently.

Next up: watering techinique in bloom.

So your young plants have had the soil sprayed to keep it moist and they look just a tad ragged.....again, referring to the instructions:

In The Lab

These are the basic instructions for using the kit! A few pointers:

When in doubt about which drench to use, use Growth Energy.

If the plants seem weak and need a boost---almost never happens unless you made a mistake or there has been some environmental issue or circumstances beyond your control---try this:

1 oz. Transplant per gallon of water with 6 mils of Tea. Feed a solution with this composition to all the plants. It will re-colonize the roots and get things back on track. Do not do this if you aren't having any problems.

I hope this clears up the trouble! The answers are there....

 

[Neiko]

Doc, speaking of roots, what is a tell tale sign that the 1 gallon potted plants are root bound and ready for transplant into the final flowering container? I know you like to start in 1 gallon pots but with all the issues I had germinating, I started them in much smaller containers and then transplanted them to 1 gallon pots, it's been almost 5 weeks since going into 1 gallon pots (8 weeks since seed). They are now about to wilt after 2.5 days from watering/feeding. I was hoping to flip either this weekend or the middle of next week. So how do I know the root ball is ready to get busy?

 

[TheBoogyman]

When they need a refill basically every day or so.

 

[Doc Bud]

Doc, speaking of roots, what is a tell tale sign that the 1 gallon potted plants are root bound and ready for transplant into the final flowering container? I know you like to start in 1 gallon pots but with all the issues I had germinating, I started them in much smaller containers and then transplanted them to 1 gallon pots, it's been almost 5 weeks since going into 1 gallon pots (8 weeks since seed). They are now about to wilt after 2.5 days from watering/feeding. I was hoping to flip either this weekend or the middle of next week. So how do I know the root ball is ready to get busy?

I think you're pretty close....generally when they need a drink every day for a few days you're quite root-bound. You could probably do it now and be fine.

 

[Snoop429]

Is there a preferred time or a bad time to apply foliar sprays?

 

[Major PITA]

Is there a preferred time or a bad time to apply foliar sprays?

I believe best is early, lights-on.

 

[Doc Bud]

Is there a preferred time or a bad time to apply foliar sprays?

I believe best is early, lights-on.

"In the morning when the birds are singing the loudest"=Best time to foliar feed.

Within 10 minutes of the lights going on for indoor growers.

 

[SweetSue]

"In the morning when the birds are singing the loudest"=Best time to foliar feed.

Within 10 minutes of the lights going on for indoor growers.

Groan! Early mornings. Drat!

 

[MaxYields]

I usually smoke a blunt with the birds, so that'll be easy

 

[Vegas flower]

Oooops I forgot to mention for the first few weeks I was doing 18\6 of light. They are now on 11\13, I figured the p1200 was frying them. The light is 20" above the ladies.

Nobody caught this? Aren't you in seedling stage? Why are you using flowering lighting times when you should be
Pushing vegatative growth? 18-6 or 20-4 lights for now.

 

[Major PITA]

Nobody caught this? Aren't you in seedling stage? Why are you using flowering lighting times when you should be
Pushing vegatative growth? 18-6 or 20-4 lights for now.

Some grow using 12/12 or 11/13 right from the get-go for a quicker turnaround.

 

[Dutty Panty]

Max I book marked your Lil brix feeding list

 

[MaxYields]

Max I book marked your Lil brix feeding list

Right on man, hope it helps!

.....

Hey Doc,

So there has been a slight change of plans to my summer grow. I will only be doing one HB plant outdoors, and I will be running two HB plants indoors. Reason being is I may very soon become the owner of a new LED light, which I have reason to believe is much more powerful and better quality than my current lamp.

Regardless.

If I am running two plants indoors in 7 gallon pots, how much of the tea would you recommend I serve with my Drenches? I did the math and 14 gallons is about 28% of the soil if your directions are followed... so that comes out to about 4.5 mils of the drench [1oz = 30 mils] between the two and like... .1mils of the tea

Obviously I'm not going to measure that out haha. Just curious what you would recommend! Thanks in advance, I know the directions are general, which is why my math was pretty loose. I figured about 1mil of the tea would be fine, just want a second opinion.

 

[Doc Bud]

Right on man, hope it helps!

.....

Hey Doc,

So there has been a slight change of plans to my summer grow. I will only be doing one HB plant outdoors, and I will be running two HB plants indoors. Reason being is I may very soon become the owner of a new LED light, which I have reason to believe is much more powerful and better quality than my current lamp.

Regardless.

If I am running two plants indoors in 7 gallon pots, how much of the tea would you recommend I serve with my Drenches? I did the math and 14 gallons is about 28% of the soil if your directions are followed... so that comes out to about 4.5 mils of the drench [1oz = 30 mils] between the two and like... .1mils of the tea

Obviously I'm not going to measure that out haha. Just curious what you would recommend! Thanks in advance, I know the directions are general, which is why my math was pretty loose. I figured about 1mil of the tea would be fine, just want a second opinion.

That sounds about right. You may find you'll want to adjust up a bit on the drenches, but let the plants tell you that. Post pics in the Q and A journal with your questions and I and the gang will help you get it right.

 

[SmokeyMcFly]

Right on man, hope it helps!

.....

Hey Doc,

So there has been a slight change of plans to my summer grow. I will only be doing one HB plant outdoors, and I will be running two HB plants indoors. Reason being is I may very soon become the owner of a new LED light, which I have reason to believe is much more powerful and better quality than my current lamp.

Regardless.

If I am running two plants indoors in 7 gallon pots, how much of the tea would you recommend I serve with my Drenches? I did the math and 14 gallons is about 28% of the soil if your directions are followed... so that comes out to about 4.5 mils of the drench [1oz = 30 mils] between the two and like... .1mils of the tea

Obviously I'm not going to measure that out haha. Just curious what you would recommend! Thanks in advance, I know the directions are general, which is why my math was pretty loose. I figured about 1mil of the tea would be fine, just want a second opinion.

I think the basis of your math is being based on the wrong soil measurement. Remember the feeding directions are based on 6 plants in 7 gal pots not based on feeding all of the soil that the kit makes. You are running two 7gal plants you should be at 1/3 of the standard amounts

I don't bother with the math anymore if I am doing a normal dose I just do .5ml per gal if I want to go heavy they get 1ml per gal. Its close enough for gov work

 

[Graytail]

This question about dosing rotates through the thread on a regular basis as new people come onboard.

I think the confusion comes from two different ways of looking at watering. If you're growing several plants of the same age and type, you tend to think in terms of concentration in the feed water, because you're going to mix up a bunch and feed 'em all. But if you have different plants of different ages, you'll be feeding each plant separately, so you need to calculate how much each plant needs.

The instructions are written for one feed to multiple plants, so it's given as a concentration - so much per gallon of water. Everybody gets a bunch of properly mixed feed water.

To feed individual plants, you calculate how much per gallon of soil, added to as much water as the plant will take. I feed on the low side, and for my 6 gallon pots, I use ~ 2.5 ml of drench and 0.3 ml Tea. But that's just the mark on the vial that I aim for - sometimes it slops up to 4 ml. No big deal. An easy way to dose individual plants is to mix the drench and Tea in individual 16oz solo cups, pour them each into the soil and follow with 1/4 Transwater until they're soaked. When I have a complicated feeding, I mix up a dose for each of 7 plants, and then fill a big bucket with transwater. I might have two Energy feedings and one CatDrench, with two just transwater and two Transplant. Five of those will need Tea, so I put 1.5 ml into a gallon or so of water and let it steep. Then I'll mix up five individual cups of the various drenches. If everyone needs the same drench, I'll mix it in a gallon pail, and evenly distribute it.

It sounds complicated when I lay it out like that, but feeding 7 individual plants is complicated. If you're doing a batch, you just fill a big bucket and pour in the right amount of drench.

So, calculate how much dosage for your pot size, and that's always how much each plant gets. Add water as needed.

Benchmark dosages:
1 Gallon pot = 0.5-1.0 ml Drench, 0.05-0.1 ml Tea
7 Gallon pot = 3-7 ml Drench, 0.3-0.7 ml Tea
10 Gallon pot = 5-10 ml Drench, 0.5-1.0 ml Tea

 

[MaxYields]

That sounds about right. You may find you'll want to adjust up a bit on the drenches, but let the plants tell you that. Post pics in the Q and A journal with your questions and I and the gang will help you get it right.

Right on, once I get started my posts will be common on your Q&A Thread. Thanks a lot for the response.

I think the basis of your math is being based on the wrong soil measurement. Remember the feeding directions are based on 6 plants in 7 gal pots not based on feeding all of the soil that the kit makes. You are running two 7gal plants you should be at 1/3 of the standard amounts

I don't bother with the math anymore if I am doing a normal dose I just do .5ml per gal if I want to go heavy they get 1ml per gal. Its close enough for gov work

It was my understanding that the Drenches and Tea feed the soil, and that in turn feeds the plant. I may be wrong but no one has corrected me yet. I have three 18 gallon totes filled almost all the way up with soil, if I was to guess I have probably 54 gallons of Kit Soil. For easy math I rounded down to 50 gallons. As far as I can see my math should be perfect based on the directions Doc has given.

I just went up and re-read your posts and 1/3 = 33% so our math is basically equal. I guess percentages aren't appropriate here because the amount of HB soil you end up with depends on how much EWC you put in. I used 30lbs of it and got ~56 gallons. And 6 pots with 7 gallons of soil is 42 gallons total. Which is how I got 28%.

Thanks for the response, I will do .5 ml of Tea per gallon, plus I will start at 5ml of the Drenches and see how the plants react.

You guys are awesome.