Jon's New Pared Down Setup Soil Grow: 3 Photo & 1 Auto With New Dedicated Auto Rig

[Jon]

Sledgehammer is one of those extra products that while being helpful, isn't totally necessary. It is even easy to create your own sledgehammer by putting some aloe in your flush water. It will allow you to do an effective flush using less water, as it normally takes about 3x the container size to wash the salts out of the soil, a little less if you use warm water. I always got an effective flush by going the full 3x volume and warm water, and found my water was running clean out of the soil at the end.

Ok that makes complete sense and thank you. I can save a few dollars. Lol. What would be the definition of "warm" water?

 

[Emilya Green]

2. I assume that the first flush in the FF feeding chart is situated right before the switch to 12/12 due to the desire to flush before budding begins. I get that, I do that anyway. But in light of extending the veg cycle to around 9-10 weeks, is it a safe assumption that I should still execute the first flush in the FF feeding chart at whenever my last watering before flipping to 12/12?

Yes, I would not recommend multiple flushes in veg simply because the nute load is not nearly as high and lefterover salts will not accumulate like they do in bloom. That last flush to clear out the veg nutes should be done right before flip, just as you assumed.

 

[Emilya Green]

What would be the definition of "warm" water?

lol... not cold, not hot... body temperature.

 

[Jon]

Yes, I would not recommend multiple flushes in veg simply because the nute load is not nearly as high and lefterover salts will not accumulate like they do in bloom. That last flush to clear out the veg nutes should be done right before flip, just as you assumed.

Gotcha, thanks again. Interesting you say that about not flushing in veg multiple times. I didn't so much do that last time as much as a number of extra and unnecessary flushes during flowering. I know now that was unnecessary and likely not the reason I was seeing growth at that time, ie, what I attributed to a positive response to the extra flushing was not that. All I was doing was leeching the soil of expensive nutrients that the plant would have been able to uptake had I not washed them out with the frequency I did. In fact, it's possible that my extra flushing is the reason the scrog went hermie. My Yoda was right, but he didn't tell me the whole story, which is the flushing I was doing extra should ONLY be done in an "emergency" situation. You WANT the nutes to stay there, unless you get some significant problem. Damn Emilya, when does the damn learning curve get a little less steep? Lol.

 

[Jon]

lol... not cold, not hot... body temperature.

Lol - you'd think it would be a dumb question, but I have no idea at what temperature my plants will instantly wilt, and everyone's definition of "warm" is subjective, ie, not a numeric response. So I had to ask.

 

[Emilya Green]

You also didn't mention foliar spraying at all. This is listed as Flower Kiss in the orange part of the feeding chart. I get that it is not considered part of the official "whole" of the soil system. My understanding, however, is that it can also be used as an additive in conjunction with the entire system, and it will provide whatever benefits the foliar feeding thing provides. I really don't WANT to foliar spray, for whatever reason I am averse to it and have yet to do it. But if it's essential to the whole I will do it. So I'm not even sure what my specific question is, other than would you mind speaking on this for a second or two, as it applies to this/my specific circumstance (you're plenty familiar enough with what I have going on)?

Foliar feeding is just another way to supercharge these plants by using another path to force feed more nutrient into them. Using their other products will increase some aspect of the grow, allowing you to produce more and better quality at the end. Yes, all these are parts of the "system" but the entire system is not needed to produce adequate product. They know that most people are not willing to spend this much to produce their pot, but those who are willing to spend a little more, should be rewarded for each dollar they add to the cost of the grow, and Fox Farms is good at providing products that can do this. You don't need all of the products. You can grow perfectly fine pot just using the basic 3 part trio. I found a dramatic increase in quality/quantity when I combined it with the 3 solubles. I was not willing to go any further than that, but you may want to go all in, and by doing so, I am confident that your grows could be even more spectacular than mine were. Or, you can be totally happy with what happens by not doing the foliar and the root treatments, and microbe brews, and boosters of several types... I am confident that at least some of the benefits that all these other products bring in is also available in the base nutrients. But, like I said before... looking at how much they offered to allow me to spend on a grow using all of their products, was a deal killer for me. I knew there had to be a better, and cheaper way to give my plants the same benefits, naturally. But for those who don't want to find a way to send targeted microbes with exactly the right raw materials into an organic grow, here is the way to buy success... simply buy into the system, as much of it as you can afford, and you too can have a prize winning grow, even without a clue as to what you are doing.

That being said, please don't think that a grow done with just the basic trio is going to be crap as compared to a grow where all the stops were pulled out and luxury nutes flowed from golden faucets... this beautiful plant adapts to whatever it finds available to it and will still produce as best as its genetics will allow. The plant grown with more options available to it, might be a little bit bigger, the buds a little bit beefier and stronger smelling, but it might cost twice as much to produce too. It's all about compromises, and which we are willing to accept.

 

[Diatomacious]

Slurricane (Purple Crunch) - this girl is going to be the test photo plant for the Sohum living soil.

This one gets my vote.

I'd take Emilya's advice. She could tutor me if she wanted to.

 

[Jon]

Foliar feeding is just another way to supercharge these plants by using another path to force feed more nutrient into them. Using their other products will increase some aspect of the grow, allowing you to produce more and better quality at the end. Yes, all these are parts of the "system" but the entire system is not needed to produce adequate product. They know that most people are not willing to spend this much to produce their pot, but those who are willing to spend a little more, should be rewarded for each dollar they add to the cost of the grow, and Fox Farms is good at providing products that can do this. You don't need all of the products. You can grow perfectly fine pot just using the basic 3 part trio. I found a dramatic increase in quality/quantity when I combined it with the 3 solubles. I was not willing to go any further than that, but you may want to go all in, and by doing so, I am confident that your grows could be even more spectacular than mine were. Or, you can be totally happy with what happens by not doing the foliar and the root treatments, and microbe brews, and boosters of several types... I am confident that at least some of the benefits that all these other products bring in is also available in the base nutrients. But, like I said before... looking at how much they offered to allow me to spend on a grow using all of their products, was a deal killer for me. I knew there had to be a better, and cheaper way to give my plants the same benefits, naturally. But for those who don't want to find a way to send targeted microbes with exactly the right raw materials into an organic grow, here is the way to buy success... simply buy into the system, as much of it as you can afford, and you too can have a prize winning grow, even without a clue as to what you are doing.

That being said, please don't think that a grow done with just the basic trio is going to be crap as compared to a grow where all the stops were pulled out and luxury nutes flowed from golden faucets... this beautiful plant adapts to whatever it finds available to it and will still produce as best as its genetics will allow. The plant grown with more options available to it, might be a little bit bigger, the buds a little bit beefier and stronger smelling, but it might cost twice as much to produce too. It's all about compromises, and which we are willing to accept.

Interesting. Ok, I understand there's a point of trade off related to quality of end product vs. cost of every single additive the company has. I understand it comes down to what's acceptable to me. So for this grow, I'm going to take your advice as financially best I can and get the three initial additives we first discussed, and leave the stuff in orange on the feeding chart for the next stimulus check. Lol. That should, following your train, noticeably increase my quality VS. if I just used the trio. At least I'm a ton closer to using the actual system and it's where this discussion began, so I'll go with it. So you gave me two things I'll have to watch and hope/expect you're right about, one being using the FF feeding chart as prescribed without dilution or altering timelines (except for extending veg/flower) and flushing when and as prescribed, and the second being using the three additives and taking note of the difference in quality vs. using just the trio. I'm excited! Thanks so much Emilya, I greatly appreciate your help.

 

[Jon]

Sledgehammer is one of those extra products that while being helpful, isn't totally necessary. It is even easy to create your own sledgehammer by putting some aloe in your flush water. It will allow you to do an effective flush using less water, as it normally takes about 3x the container size to wash the salts out of the soil, a little less if you use warm water. I always got an effective flush by going the full 3x volume and warm water, and found my water was running clean out of the soil at the end.

Forgot to ask....why does aloe have the effect you describe? And are you talking about the clear gel type aloe that basically comes in a round makeup type jar? If so, what does one do, simply put a glob of aloe in a volume of water (of course I'll want to ask how much of each, lol) and shake it hard until it's all dissolved in the water? I haven't even seen this one in a year of info surfing. Very interesting. You're hitting my Spock nerve, thanks.

 

[Jon]

This one gets my vote.

I'd take Emilya's advice. She could tutor me if she wanted to.

What strain of weed is the seed in your photo?

 

[Emilya Green]

Forgot to ask....why does aloe have the effect you describe? And are you talking about the clear gel type aloe that basically comes in a round makeup type jar? If so, what does one do, simply put a glob of aloe in a volume of water (of course I'll want to ask how much of each, lol) and shake it hard until it's all dissolved in the water? I haven't even seen this one in a year of info surfing. Very interesting. You're hitting my Spock nerve, thanks.

Aloe has many benefits for our grows and until getting on the Geoflora train, I would give 1 tbl/gal of it with just about every watering. In the flush, the aloe acts as a wetting agent because it contains high amounts of saponins, allowing the left over salts an easier time in dissolving and moving out of the soil with the flush water. In the grow, these saponins allow for greater absorption of nutrients. Aloe is also full of amino acids, enzymes, micro nutrients as well as two major hormones: Auxins which are a powerful growth hormone and Gibberellins which help regulate many plant developmental processes such as stem growth and flower development.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Update #1

Ok, the Ghost Train Haze, Chunkadelic auto, and Slurricane (Purple Crunch) are all popped and in their respective one gallon pots. The Hulkberry doesn't seem to want to pop just yet. Never had a seed not pop, ever. My perfect streak of 24 for 24 may end there if she doesn't come out soon. I have two more just in case, but damn. I like that undefeated streak. Lol. See how she does in another 24 hours. So as stated, the girls are beginning life in one gallon pots. This is how fast I get cocky. I already, after using @Emilya's watering method for one grow, am just as certain as I can be that I can bypass the DIxie cups and get just as good a root ball in the one gallon pot before transplanting to a five. Lol. We'll see if my confidence is justified. All four plants will begin their lives vegging in the auto rig station. The par level with the meter (phone) sitting right on top of the pots is 380. I have one blurple on full spectrum and one on just VEG (blues). The temperature in the garage ranges from about 68 at night to about 80-82 during the day. The RH in the garage tends to be around 65%. This will work fine for veg, and the auto will grow in any conditions, so I'm not all that concerned about this garage RH level. I also have now two unused AC units, and if I need to I will simply plug one in and blow cool dry air right onto the auto when she gets into budding. She'll be fine. The photos, as soon as they are a few leaves tall, will go into the Gorilla tent with the Sour Apple. The way my light is designed, it will work to both bud the Sour Apple and not burn my little girls, cuz the par level drops off pretty dramatically (on purpose) as the light gets further from the plants. So par level right now at pot height of the babies in the Gorilla is around 400, while at the top of the cola of the Sour Apple it's around 1200. Point is I can bud her out and finish her at the same time as we begin vegging the photos cuz the cycle is 18/6. Once we harvest the Sour Apple the three photos have the Gorilla to themselves. The photos get no nutes for their first two weeks. The auto will start on nutes as soon as she's sprouted pretty much. I water only with bottled water for the first week, maybe two. And until they get topped it's basically watch them sprout and watch them grow. I don't really plan to touch them at all before they get topped. LST will begin post topping.

So that's where we are. Hulkberry better get her ass in gear.

I start mine in 1 gal. pots & the Root Ball is way better. In 30 days the pot will be filled like this.

 

[Jon]

Aloe has many benefits for our grows and until getting on the Geoflora train, I would give 1 tbl/gal of it with just about every watering. In the flush, the aloe acts as a wetting agent because it contains high amounts of saponins, allowing the left over salts an easier time in dissolving and moving out of the soil with the flush water. In the grow, these saponins allow for greater absorption of nutrients. Aloe is also full of amino acids, enzymes, micro nutrients as well as two major hormones: Auxins which are a powerful growth hormone and Gibberellins which help regulate many plant developmental processes such as stem growth and flower development.

Fascinating. Gracias.

 

[Jon]

I start mine in 1 gal. pots & the Root Ball is way better. In 30 days the pot will be filled like this.

Thanks Buds Buddy, that's EXACTLY what I'm hoping for. That is a thing of absolute beauty right there. WOW.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Thanks Buds Buddy, that's EXACTLY what I'm hoping for. That is a thing of absolute beauty right there. WOW.

That was at 30 days exactly & all 9 plants were like that.

 

[Jon]

That was at 30 days exactly & all 9 plants were like that.

Cool. Well, before when I went from Dixie cups the Dixie root balls looked just like that, and I still got the root ball to fill the three gallon (this is my first auto project I'm referring to, last grow) just like that. But now I use fives for autos, and I figured going one to five beats Dixie cup to five. I also saw no need for Dixies with the photos, as my goal with the ones relative to them was to generate in the one exactly what you have going on in that picture. Thanks, it gives me confidence.

 

[Tokin Roll]

Just got caught up; very interesting journal @Jon .
You are getting great answers from @Emilya , because you are asking the right questions.

Funny thing is you said the members of the band are spread from Pittsburgh to Philly, some one in my back yard.

Stay safe, and grow well my friend,

Tok..

 

[Jon]

Just got caught up; very interesting journal @Jon .
You are getting great answers from @Emilya , because you are asking the right questions.

Funny thing is you said the members of the band are spread from Pittsburgh to Philly, some one in my back yard.

Stay safe, and grow well my friend,

Tok..

Hey, thanks Tok...not sure which is your backyard, Pittsburgh or Philly. But if you're somewhere in the realm of Pittsburgh, one of my best friends and former rhythm guitar player for my band is now the lead guitar player for the top (and basically only high quality) Dead band in Pittsburgh. They're called theCAUSE, spelled just like that. You can find them easily on YouTube or Facebook. My friend's name is Eric Weingrad. If your backyard is Philly, that's my former backyard too, and although my lead guitar player (and second born brother), drummer, second drummer, and keyboard player are all relatively in that area, the easiest one to find live right now is likely my second keyboard player, who's name is John Bigham. He is formerly Chubby Checker's keyboard player, and is also likely an easy find. He plays out with all kinds of bands and is amazing. My original keyboard player is CR Gruver. CR has since sat in with Widespread Panic at Red Rocks. No shit, you can find it easily on YouTube under "CR Gruver with Widespread Panic at Red Rocks." He is now based out of New Orleans and his regular band is the New Orleans Suspects, another easy find wherever you look. He's also amazing and has also sat in with bands like the Dirty Dozen Brass Band and Jah Love. It's funny, a lot of the guys in my band did really well once we stopped playing together. Lmao. All these guys have so much talent, including my brother on lead guitar, that all I did was basically hold on for dear life and try not to screw anything up. I had only been playing bass for a year and a half when the band started, so I was competent but wasn't going to impress anyone most of the time. I tried to be invisible while I learned on the fly at gigs and in the basement by myself, playing along with bootlegs and the Dead to learn the tunes (this is 1991). If you're interested, you can find my band, Double Dose, on archive.org. That's the best place for us and the best time frame is 94-96. Search Double Dose West Chester on archive.org and you'll find several live shows that sound great. So there's some actual information rather than just grandiose statements, LMAO. Enough to mess around if you have any interest.

 

[Tokin Roll]

Sounds great, I will have to checkout all those leads.

I'm on the west side just north of Pittsburgh.

I did sound boards many years ago, but it was more party then play.

 

[Jon]

Sounds great, I will have to checkout all those leads.

I'm on the west side just north of Pittsburgh.

I did sound boards many years ago, but it was more party then play.

Awesome. You'll find them no prob if you look. They place places like the Thunderbird Cafe, and I forget the name but that really sweet, small venue in the city. I lived there for three years, from 89 to 91. Used to wait tables at Hemingway's Cafe in Oakland, on campus, right next door to the O. I love Pittsburgh. We used to play G's Cheesesteak place, and Hemingway's, and the Artery in Shadyside - lots of fun back then.