Northern Lights Autos: FoNz's Fabulous First Grow

Since you are approaching this with a scientific background, what do you think of this:

I took a pretty thorough skim of that post and at a glance there is a lot to unpack, I can post a comment in that thread with my personal breakdown based on formal education and experience. Some of the info from the rep seems a little questionable, kind of like said individual has heard some chemistry and biology concepts and then just mashed them up.

That's an at a glance look, I'm gonna give it more time later Shed.
 
The pH of the medium is the most relevant factor, but those can and are influenced by the introduced acids and bases in a solution. The exact behavior and influence is going to vary based on the specific compound.

To be clear, the pH of the water is not changing. The solution's pH changes (which is made up of the water and every other compound in your solution). When you are pH balancing nutrient solutions you are adding an acidic compound. Very commonly phosphoric acid.

Completely pure water is going to have a pH of 7.0, but in the real world you are never watering with completely pure water - there are always dissolved solutes (even in rain water) - therefor you are always 'watering' with a solution that will interact with the environment it is added to both chemically and biologically.

The significance of pH is that it effects the performance and effectiveness of the active-transport chains found in the endodermis and the diffusion of some molecules depending on the polarity (which is the electrical charge referenced in your abridged discussion) of the solution the roots are exposed to. High enough or low enough pH's can permanently damage roots (or your skin) by denaturing (detroying the secondary functional shape) the proteins present and, depending on the acid or base, by breaking down other compounds.
 
His point was the the type of nitrogen and the alkalinity of the water are the two things that will affect the pH of the medium over time.

The real question is whether you believe that the acid or base solutions we add to do water pH balancing changes the pH of the medium over time. That's assuming you believe the immediate pH of the water is immaterial to the plant's ability to uptake specific nutrients.
 
Luckily, I don't have to worry about believing one thing or another in this case, an understanding of chemistry allows me to know that compounds in the watering solutions do and will have an effect on the pH (potential of hydrogen is what pH means) of the medium. Those acids, bases and salts are going to continue to interact with the composition (and organisms) of the medium as they interact and change over time.

As far as alkalinity of water goes, this is also a misnomer. As stated before pure water has a specific pH or 7.0, solute in solution along side that water (effectively acting the same way as any introduced solute) is what would make water alkaline. Calcium, iron, chlorine and flourine are very common solutes in tap water for example.
 
I have stopped pH'ing my nutes and haven't seen any negative effects on my plants that would indicate any elements are being locked out.
Except your nutes introduce pH changes, all this means is that your solution is balanced appropriately. After adding nutes to my water the pH changes from nearly 8.0 pH (alkaline) to 6.5. You can add lime to raise pH in a medium because it is introducing alkaline solutes into the area when it is hydrated (when plants can uptake nutrients). There are thousands of ways you might encourage plant growth and introduce the required elements of life, but that doesn't change the basic biochemistry occurring regardless of what we might believe.
 
This was my point exactly! I didn't pH balance my nutrient water and yet the soil has no trouble taking up the nutrients because the soil pH remains in the correct range. The content of the nutrients my change the pH of the soil over time. But the pH of the water doesn't matter to the plant in terms of uptake.
Regrettably, this will not work for everyone either. Because the solutes in the water people have access to varies. If I didn't drop the pH of my water, my plants would still be alive (probably) but they wouldn't be doing as well because my water is simply too alkaline. Some people have water that is perfect, other people would need to take action to improve the water if they wanted to maximize their plant's health.

You still talk about the pH of the water, which is irrelevant because the pH of the solution changes but the pH of the water does not. If separated out at a later time and purified, the water would be 7.0 pH. What you are doing clearly works for you (I've even seen photographic evidence) and that is perfect, but an absolute statement like "pH balancing does not make an impact" is not only incorrect - but it could also negatively effect someone else's grow if they accept that as an absolute truth but they're water is too acidic or to basic to facilitate nutrient absorption.

If you want to get further into it, then you'd learn that the same pH of nutrient solution will act differently in different medium due to natural pH buffers - which reduce how much a quantity of acid or base can effect the local pH.

I'd like to make it clear that you don't need a single biology or chemistry class to be a fantastic gardener and use compounds (organic or otherwise) to your advantage. In fact, I often remind my peers (especially the plant biologists) how much they owe the cannabis cultivation culture for advancing indoor growing techniques and guiding hard research with novel discoveries. I'm surprised NASA hasn't written a thank you letter to 420 magazine. People are clever regardless of how much they realize it.

The biggest difference is the language used.

TL;DR, in some situation a grower may be able to merely add nutrients and water and have satisfactory results, on another situation the same recipe can yield failure due to unseen or unknown differences. Do what works for you, share with the community, encourage other individuals to find what works best for them and how to think and troubleshoot problems themselves.
 
Please don't misread my use of the word "water" to mean plain water. I'm referring to the nurtient water we use to water our plants.

My plants have never looked better and I'm sure the solution of nutrients dissolved in water runs at least a full point over the recommendation for that medium. The pH buffering of the medium itself is what makes this possible, but that will diminish over time with the compounds in the the solution I am pouring through. This is what the research I was pointed to indicates, and it's working for me and others who have stopped pH'ing their nutrient solutions since my conversation with Mr ProMix.

It's entirely possible we're lucky, though I'm not sure how that's possible pouring a solution at 7.4 into a medium that supports uptake at 5.5-6.0.
 
So pH controlling with "buffer" materials is one of the methods that were mentioned, it seems that what you are saying is that your pH balancing is done in your potting mix (promix?) instead of in your nutrient solution. A big difference is that watering with a pre-balanced solution allows for immediate nutrient availability and the ability to control your pH long term, even over several grows without significant amendments to the medium.

If I were a medium vendor I would encourage people to use no pH balanced nutrients because then the medium eventually loses it's buffering properties from the lime, mosses, etc., leaving the customer to decide between adding amendments and testing the medium or buying more of my product.

Both are ways to adjust and control pH, both have their perks.

I think I am tracking what you are trying to get at now, @InTheShed , does it sound about right?
 
Not exactly but closer. I'm going to leave it there because I only have the research I read and the confirmation of the product director at ProMix. I doubt the profit motive because he said the same concept applied to soil.

Next time I have two clones to run side-by-side I will pH balance one and not the other. At the end of the grow I'll slurry test the soil and see what the results are (assuming no pH related deficiencies show up earlier!).
 
I look forward to seeing the results, Shed.

You inspired me to take a lot of time on a post. I've added it to my signature under helpful links.

As you may or may not know I am a simple guy in a far off land. ( sometimes we take two steps back and one step forward ) My simple approach is two types of water with no PH testing. One comes from the dam on the farm and the other from the tap in the house. ( a drinkable borehole supply ) I try to alternate these and add nutes to the dam water. I understand there is plenty of science involved and cannot comment either way but man my plants love this water. I also use as close to a neutral soil as i can.
Just a simple guy loving these plants. Maybe it's time i tried to test the actual PH of the water to see why the plants dig it so much.
I am going to get some more of our local potting soil today, perhaps I should get a PH tester while I'm there.
:thumb:
I have enjoyed this read though
 
The plants are at least a month old now having just hit 31 days since they hit soil. They are all seem to be in pre-flower but none in full-blown flower quite yet. Wasn't sure how fast the change would happen given how fast the growth pattern changed when they started putting on calyxes and pistils.
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Their size has been increasing rather rapidly recently. I have been having to adjust lights and inch the pots away from each other so they aren't too close to each other.

Some closer ups.
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