Sqwheels' Perpetual 2L Hempy + Moms

[sqwheels]

Hey Astonr,

Thanks... I thought they looked pretty good too. Hopfully I can keep them that way.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi X

You're early, there's not much to catch up on. but I'm real glad you're here.

The more the merrier. And I feel like I'm gonna need the help.

 

[sqwheels]

Thanks 420fied,

Ya, lots of great people here. I really love this place.

I'm sure you know what I actually meant by that KISS comment...but your Wife is always welcome to join in...like I said, the more the merrier.

How many nodes do you think I should let that Wonder Woman get before I cut a clone? I was planning on just watching and waiting for what looked like a good viable cut. Is there a secret to it? She's got about 8 nodes now.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi Goshawk,

Welcome to my journal

Thanks for the good vibes. Always appreciated. The Wonder Woman sounds really good and I know I like the White Widow...I'm just happy to be growing again...I'm so totally hooked.

 

[420fied]

Thanks 420fied,

Ya, lots of great people here. I really love this place.

I'm sure you know what I actually meant by that KISS comment...but your Wife is always welcome to join in...like I said, the more the merrier.

How many nodes do you think I should let that Wonder Woman get before I cut a clone? I was planning on just watching and waiting for what looked like a good viable cut. Is there a secret to it? She's got about 8 nodes now.

I knew what you meant.

It has nothing to do with nodes. It has to do with the Mother being large enough to support giving clones. I've found that it takes a Mother a good month from seed, to get to the point where she will be able to give you clones.

If you can see babies on there that will make 5-6" clones, then she's ready.

Here's a Mother of mine that's ready to give you clones.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi 420fied,

Wow, she's alot bigger than I thought necessary. I only have a 2.5x2.5 footprint and was hoping to keep two.

Did you top or fim this plant?

Couple other things I need to figure out...

Nutes. I haven't given any nutes yet, to either my clone or seeds. I have 2 different kinds on hand and because of finances I can't afford to buy anything I don't absolutely need.

You did your hempy with GH 3 part nutes if I remember right. I have GH floranova grow and bloom. They are one part nutes. And I have the Canna brand nutes...terravega, terraflores,and the additives they recommended, canazym,rhizotonic, pk13/14 and boost. I've read in alot of journals that say you also need Cal-Mag, Do I really need this? and can I buy this at a bigbox garden center? I've found it online but I'd rather buy local. I'm sure the hydro store has it but I think they overprice some things.

Medium Mix. Which vermiculite would be best? Fine or Course? I have both.

 

[420fied]

Hi 420fied,

Wow, she's alot bigger than I thought necessary. I only have a 2.5x2.5 footprint and was hoping to keep two.

Did you top or fim this plant?

Couple other things I need to figure out...

Nutes. I haven't given any nutes yet, to either my clone or seeds. I have 2 different kinds on hand and because of finances I can't afford to buy anything I don't absolutely need.

You did your hempy with GH 3 part nutes if I remember right. I have GH floranova grow and bloom. They are one part nutes. And I have the Canna brand nutes...terravega, terraflores,and the additives they recommended, canazym,rhizotonic, pk13/14 and boost. I've read in alot of journals that say you also need Cal-Mag, Do I really need this? and can I buy this at a bigbox garden center? I've found it online but I'd rather buy local. I'm sure the hydro store has it but I think they overprice some things.

Medium Mix. Which vermiculite would be best? Fine or Course? I have both.

I top, then LST my moms to keep them short and bushy. LST is more important than topping. LST keeps them short.

Cal-Mag isn't an absolute necessity unless you're using RO water. If you're using tap water, you don't NEED to buy CalMag unless your plants start showing a deficiancy.

You'll have to order it. I don't think it can be bought at a box.

For my Hempy's I use fine Verm.

Best of luck.

 

[sqwheels]

Thanks 420fied...appreciate the info.


Hey yall,

I've got a ??? what's the best way ???

Keeping a mother vs recloning the same plant over and over?

I read an article here somewhere, Damn oldtimers disease, I wish my memory wasn't shot, This article alluded to it's better to keep a mother and take clones from it over many years

vs

Growing a plant, taking clones then flowering the mother and grow the clones to make new mothers, and repeat that process over many years. My buddy has a plant that he's had 30yrs. by doing this

in essence you're either making a copy of an original over and over and over -- or -- you're making a copy from a copy from a copy over and over.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense I'm not so good at explaining myself.

If you know of any threads that explain this please let me know. I'm not quite sure what to ask the search engine for to find this info.

Thanks all

 

[Mr. Krip]

Thanks 420fied...appreciate the info.


Hey yall,

I've got a ??? what's the best way ???

Keeping a mother vs recloning the same plant over and over?

I read an article here somewhere, Damn oldtimers disease, I wish my memory wasn't shot, This article alluded to it's better to keep a mother and take clones from it over many years

vs

Growing a plant, taking clones then flowering the mother and grow the clones to make new mothers, and repeat that process over many years. My buddy has a plant that he's had 30yrs. by doing this

in essence you're either making a copy of an original over and over and over -- or -- you're making a copy from a copy from a copy over and over.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense I'm not so good at explaining myself.

If you know of any threads that explain this please let me know. I'm not quite sure what to ask the search engine for to find this info.

Thanks all

Sqwheels, this is a GREAT question and I would love to hear the scientific answer.

Be prepared to get different answers to this question from different growers.

I've heard some swear that it's best to stay as "close to the seed" as possible, so maintain a mother and clone her. They will tell you that after several generations, the plant loses it's vigor.

Others will tell you there is no difference and they've been cloning off clones for years and they've never had any issues.

I tend to believe the latter, considering a clone is a genetic replica of the mother. In theory, even a 20th generation clone should still have the same DNA makeup.

That being said, I'm sure environment comes into play on some level.

I don't know if, for example, feeding some brand of nutes may actually genetically alter the plants make-up, making it preferable to clone from a 1st generation mother. But, I am sure environment can ruin a grow of even a healthy & vigorous clone making it appear that a strain has lost its vigor.

 

[OG13]

I'm w/ Mr K....environment has most to do w/ genetic "drift" of mothers/clones. I've done both methods and both work fine. You are not planning to keep any one genetic for super long anyways, just do what works best for you. Start with a mother till you get good at cloning. When you are confident (90% success rate) just take a clone and make sure it is rooted before you put the veg plant into flower. Another reason I like to veg for a couple of weeks.

 

[OG13]

I was having a PM w/ Sqwheels earlier....talking about her layout/plan. She likes the idea of SOG like 420fied, but she can only have 12 plants. I suggested that she should veg them a while and try to bush each plant out to fill the space her 400 watt lamp would fill--about 8 sq feet. Keep them short but wide. I would flower 7 or 8 plants at a time and have 4 or 5 in veg/clone at a time. I would use a 1.5 gallon or 2 gallon pot for the hempy to cut down on watering demands (allow you to go away for a couple of days).

Here's the method ....

Talking about a perpetual grow now. I have a "formula" that I use to size the number of plants at each stage of growing based on what "resources" you have available--lights, space, time etc. I base it on the genetics I am using--white widow for example. If it takes 9 weeks to flower, 2 weeks to clone, and 2 or 3 weeks to veg, the whole "cycle" is 14 weeks long. She can have 12 plants total, so her timing would be 14 weeks (98 days) divided by 12 plants, or around 8 days. Once set up, she would take a new cutting each 8 days (once she harvests a mature plant). The clones (always 2 being rooted at a time, 8 days apart) would be potted up when ready (figure 2 weeks) and vegged for 2 or 3 weeks to generate good root growth. To me the veg period is mainly to grow roots to support the future buds. The plants are topped to encourage 4 to 6 main branches and total height of about 10 to 12 inches before flower. At 5 weeks from cutting, they go to flower. The process repeats.

I use this technique at a friends med grow and it works great. Only difference is size (resources), we veg for 4 weeks to get larger plants. I clone in seed starting mix and use a dome. It is easy and simple and reliable. I get much better than 90% success everytime. If a clone doesn't take, you just remove a lower branch from a veg plant before it goes to flower.

 

[OG13]

I'm guessing that 420fied's SOG has about 5 or 6 plants per square foot. Sqwheels can't have this many plants. SOG is very efficient, but she needs larger plants to utilize her available resources.

What do you guys think? She can have only 12 plants....wants mothers(or clones of clones) and already has a 400 MH for flowering. What would you do?

 

[Mr. Krip]

I'm guessing that 420fied's SOG has about 5 or 6 plants per square foot. Sqwheels can't have this many plants. SOG is very efficient, but she needs larger plants to utilize her available resources.

What do you guys think? She can have only 12 plants....wants mothers(or clones of clones) and already has a 400 MH for flowering. What would you do?

OG, I truly think all your advice above is great for anyone considering a SOG, BUT, I'm not so sure I'd recommend a SOG to Sqwheels, unless she really wants to grow some single cola plants.

SOG is typically used to maximize yield in a smaller space, which is the plus side of a SOG. In fact, I'm considering a SOG because my flower chamber is less than 2' sq.

On the negative side, it greatly increases the number of plants in the grow, which for people who are trying to stay within a legal limit, can be a big issue.

(BTW...420fied has a FANTASTIC SOG, but at over 100 plants, there's a BIG risk associated b/c of the Feds who basically let the states deal with everything under 100 plants, but get real interested when the number goes over 100. I actually suggested to 420fied that he knock the number of plants from 112 down to 99 just to be safe!)

So, if space isn't a problem for Sqwheels, but the number of plants is, why do a SOG?

 

[420fied]

OG, I truly think all your advice above is great for anyone considering a SOG, BUT, I'm not so sure I'd recommend a SOG to Sqwheels, unless she really wants to grow some single cola plants.

SOG is typically used to maximize yield in a smaller space, which is the plus side of a SOG. In fact, I'm considering a SOG because my flower chamber is less than 2' sq.

On the negative side, it greatly increases the number of plants in the grow, which for people who are trying to stay within a legal limit, can be a big issue.

(BTW...420fied has a FANTASTIC SOG, but at over 100 plants, there's a BIG risk associated b/c of the Feds who basically let the states deal with everything under 100 plants, but get real interested when the number goes over 100. I actually suggested to 420fied that he knock the number of plants from 112 down to 99 just to be safe!)

So, if space isn't a problem for Sqwheels, but the number of plants is, why do a SOG?

It was good advice too. I keep around 90 running at a time just incase.

 

[Mr. Krip]

It was good advice too. I keep around 90 running at a time just incase.

I'm giving you +Reps, too - not for agreeing with me, but for being smart!

 

[HomeMedGrower]

I think that 7 or 8 plants in 2 gallon containers under 1 400W light is to many.

I can have 15 plants, my thoughts are flower a couple in 3 gal and throw a couple clones in there after 2 or 3 weeks from rooting. that gets you through the first 5 weeks. Cut more clones, after the 2 bigger ones come out throw in 2 more big ones or 6 more clones SoG stlye.

My space for flowering is about 9 square feet, with a 400W HPS for flowering.

This keeps your numbers down under 15 or 12.

 

[sqwheels]

Hi All,

I started quite the conversation with this one.

The reason I liked 420fied sog so much is the size of the pot. Because I'm in a wheelchair I want to grow in something easy for me to deal with...lift, move, shower if necessary, in a 2 ltr pop bottle this would be a snap for me. With a 2-3 gal pot I can't do this by myself. Even a 1.5 gal pot with a 2' bushy plant is too big for me.

And a 400w mh doesn't have the penetration power to make big buds on a large bushy plant. 420fied's plants were only about 18-22 inches at harvest time, with minimal side branches and few big leaves...easy for trimming. The entire plant was nearly all cola and gave him about 1/2 oz ea. This would be perfect end results for me.

I've grown twice now and both times I veg'd too long, the plants were way too big and unruly at the end. I had nearly 5' plants this last time. If I clone and veg for only a week or two, long enough for it to get a good set of roots going and then flower they will stay small enough for me to handle.

OG - Your plan sounds good, but I don't want larger plants. I thought the bonsai idea was a good one. If I do that to a mother I can take the clones as I need them. A new clone every 8 days seems a little agressive, and sounds like alot.

The wonder woman I have now will be big enough to top in a week or so, I was going to top her, for 1 clone, and apply the bonsai method to keep her as a mother, once that top/clone has a root system I was going to flower it. I'll continue to take clones from the mother as they are viable. Using the bonsai method eventually she'll be big enough to take several clones at a time.

When the White Widow seedlings are big enough to top, I plan to do the same thing, take a top/clone and flower. Saving the best of the 4 for a mother and just flower the others.

Mr. K - plants with 1 main cola, that's what I want to do. I followed 420fied's sog and that's what got me started on this idea.

HMG has the right idea, but the pots are still too big.

Does the light matter that much? What does it matter if I'm only flowering 6 plants at once under that 400w light. Seems like they would just get more light...no competition.

OG - your perpetual grow plan sounds pretty good...I'll try to do something like this but veg only until they have a good root system then flower...smaller is better.

It's been a very long day for me, I can't think straight anymore...I'm headed to bed, I'll get up tomorrow and try to make better sense of all this info.

My husband keeps telling me I'm overthinking it...I tend to do that.

Thanks guys for all your thoughts on this, it's given me much to think about.

Much appreciated.

 

[420fied]

If your results mimic that of mine and Xare's ....... 12, SOG'd 2 liter plants should give you approximately 6 ounces of cured bud off of every run. This is going straight to 12/12 with no veg time.

How much were you hoping for?

If it's more than that, I'd say you'll have to consider vegging, and bigger pots. However, if 6 ounces will last you, I see no benefit in going any larger.

KISS

 

[OG13]

I'm with you 420fied.....I was trying to get her to NOT SOG cause her light is too BIG for that small number of plants. She could flower 12 two liters under a 250 watt (or even a 100 watt) since the pots are so small. May as well veg for a week or two and get some branch buds too. The veg period is really for the roots in my book. It is more important to develop the roots if you are growing from clones vs. seeds. You want to fill the container before flowering starts are root development slows.

 

[OG13]

Are you using tap water Sqwheels? Shouldn't need cal mag supplement.....