The Coco Clean Up (EM1 & MYCO)

[Greenvein]

Welcome welcome welcome... As the title says I'm looking to run some tests growing in Coco coir to try to clean up my root zone & clean up some correct but misused information that I struggled with finding my way. I have not confirmed my thoughts are 100% correct but will soon find out. Whilst I flower a few of my big ladies I will monitor my new hopefully improved results to help confirm the above and share my thoughts to hopefully create clearer pathways future Coco explorers.

Other goals during this grow:
Maintaining a stable rhizosphere
Fill my 3x3 with one plant
Fill 4x4 with three plants
Finally flower my exodus cheese clones
Minimize labour time with my plants
Avoid growing larf
Harvest a tonne of dank bud!

so short and sweet my set up is a standard:
drain to waste
3x3 & 4x4 tent
Down to two fans per tent
6" & 4" extraction
Mars bars fce6500 & fc3000
3 Gal plastic pots

I will be using General hydroponics maxi grow and bloom throughout with some seafuel bloom weekly. Unusually for me I plan on using mycorrhizal fungi (@up pot) and EM1 (weekly) to inoculate my Coco which will be my main focus to answer a lot of what's, how's & why's. I did plan to run a comparison separating the two to see if they worked individually but decided to use them together then if it works I can start to work backwards for minimal requirements.
The only downside to what I am doing now is I haven't added any Myco to my plants thus far so there is a chance it may not be as established as I would need for full support but we will see.

I think that's all I have planned so getting to the test subjects I currently have 4 large plants stuck in a 3x3.. proof?

This was their home for 24 hours as my last plant in a DWC bucket threw some naners so both tents and plants got a bath. Now that you've seen it for yourselves I plan on growing the three shorties (Exodus cheese clones X2 + a Mind Melter clone X1) in the 4x4 tent then in my 3x3 tent I hope to spread over grown Miami madness.

I will leave it at that for today.. I'll be back once they have new shoes, a fresh trim and in position.
throughout this thread feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Add any knowledge you feel fitting or just say hi and watch some flowers bloom

Peace and love

 

[Bill284]

Welcome welcome welcome... As the title says I'm looking to run some tests growing in Coco coir to try to clean up my root zone & clean up some correct but misused information that I struggled with finding my way. I have not confirmed my thoughts are 100% correct but will soon find out. Whilst I flower a few of my big ladies I will monitor my new hopefully improved results to help confirm the above and share my thoughts to hopefully create clearer pathways future Coco explorers.

Other goals during this grow:
Maintaining a stable rhizosphere
Fill my 3x3 with one plant
Fill 4x4 with three plants
Finally flower my exodus cheese clones
Minimize labour time with my plants
Avoid growing larf
Harvest a tonne of dank bud!

so short and sweet my set up is a standard:
drain to waste
3x3 & 4x4 tent
Down to two fans per tent
6" & 4" extraction
Mars bars fce6500 & fc3000
3 Gal plastic pots

I will be using General hydroponics maxi grow and bloom throughout with some seafuel bloom weekly. Unusually for me I plan on using mycorrhizal fungi (@up pot) and EM1 (weekly) to inoculate my Coco which will be my main focus to answer a lot of what's, how's & why's. I did plan to run a comparison separating the two to see if they worked individually but decided to use them together then if it works I can start to work backwards for minimal requirements.
The only downside to what I am doing now is I haven't added any Myco to my plants thus far so there is a chance it may not be as established as I would need for full support but we will see.

I think that's all I have planned so getting to the test subjects I currently have 4 large plants stuck in a 3x3.. proof?

This was their home for 24 hours as my last plant in a DWC bucket threw some naners so both tents and plants got a bath. Now that you've seen it for yourselves I plan on growing the three shorties (Exodus cheese clones X2 + a Mind Melter clone X1) in the 4x4 tent then in my 3x3 tent I hope to spread over grown Miami madness.

I will leave it at that for today.. I'll be back once they have new shoes, a fresh trim and in position.
throughout this thread feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Add any knowledge you feel fitting or just say hi and watch some flowers bloom

Peace and love

Hey Buddy
Just noticed this in your sig.
Advertising works.
I'm in.



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Greenvein]

Hey Buddy
Just noticed this in your sig.
Advertising works.
I'm in.



Stay safe
Bill284

Morning Bill your time and knowledge is always appreciated
really excited to run this I have been patient long enough

Hope your well

 

[024backwards]

Hope an old straggler like me can tag along? Hard to object with your goals, spot on!

 

[Greenvein]

Hey 420forwards always a pleasure my friend fancy a brew? Pull up a chair mate. Hopefully my plans work out if not well hopefully have some nice flower to admire

 

[Greenvein]

Another day another shift complete so I'm only spending a hour or two in my garden a day, as you know... life gets in the way but today I finished lollypoping all 4 plants then got them all up potted with some mycorrhizal fungi. After up pot they got a full feed to run off then I was out!
Originally my pots were only half full so I pulled them out filled the bottom and stuck them back in.

Cheddar cheese
Before trim

After trim

Some roots during up pot

Now my mind Melter back in with the
Settled for inoculation tomorrow

Finally Miami madness

​

This is the Myco I used, nothing special but hopefully gets the job done

The plan for tomorrow is to start pulling all my plants down as low as possible, give them a shot of EM1 & seafuel then finally get my light intensity up ready for flip.

 

[Greenvein]

Ok so me, Coco and my rabbit hole

In the beginning I never intended on growing in Coco I quickly bought some compost to get my clones planted. Through veg my plants were growing great but as I got closer to flip I could see slowed growth and deficiencies. After a quick read I realised my compost was actually coir based so I built myself my first drain to waste system, i flushed my plants and immediately I was back in range with my PH and EC. These previously were both drifting up. From here I just continued to feed until run off and grew some great flower.

Grow summary here

After such success I went all in! I bought some pure Coco coir and grew with synthetics this time. Growing the same as I did before my run off PH would always be slightly lower this time all through veg and then really drop to near 3PH In flower. Flushing worked for a day or two but daily flushes weren't doable so I let them run as according to the internet low PH is normal and it should be ignored. This caused a lot of leaf twisting and herm plants.
My second run I tried feeding more often 5x per day which worked ok, it basically kept my medium flushed so the PH drop wasn't as severe or for as long but I still think this was too much unnecessary waste and workload.

So I began to question:
why does soil pH around roots drop?
root exudates, Although the identified components differ in molecular weight, amount released, and biochemical role, the dominant exudate components have consistently been shown to be organic acids, sugars, and amino acids.

What's the purpose of root exudates?
root exudates serve as signals that initiate symbiosis with rhizobia and mycorrhizal fungi. In addition, root exudates maintain and support a highly specific diversity of microbes in the rhizosphere of a given particular plant species, thus suggesting a close evolutionary link.
Root exudates can serve as a food source and chemoattractant for microbes which then attach to the root surface and form microcolonies.

What does mycorrhizal fungi eat?
The mycorrhizal fungi want to eat too, and they prefer the sugars and fats that plants exude from their roots. So, in exchange for nutrients, mycorrhizae receive plant root exudates that are loaded with carbon

Aaah so will this have a positive affect on PH?
When researching to find out if whilst mycorrhizal fungi is feasting on root exudates this stops the sugars or acids from being released into the medium causing an acidic reaction. Most answers are talking about its ability to feed plants outside its PH range but not specify my questions.

So here I am testing to see if MYCO can reduce/slowdown or even stop the acidic effects root exudates Has to mediums. Whilst thinking about this I noticed my buddy @Bill284 using some stuff called bokashi bran a successful Coco grower that never checks run off was this his secret? so I looked into it

What's bokashi bran?
It's an essential component for successful kitchen waste recycling and composting. This specialized bran is infused with Effective Microorganisms (EM), which accelerate the fermentation and breakdown of organic matter.

What em is in bokashi bran?
(EM-1), molasses water, and an organic high-carbon carrier, is your key to a thriving and eco-friendly lifestyle.

What's in EM-1?
A whole host of good guys, dormant and waiting to activate, including photosynthesizing bacteria, multiple strains of lactic acid bacteria, yeasts and more. EM1 has also shown to increase growth of other beneficial soil fungi such as mycorrhizal fungi, help keep disease organisms in check. Other benefits LAB is being very effective at improving pore space in soil/soil ventilation. LAB increases the solubility of fertiliser.
Make your own effective microorganisms step by step.. 'OK'

Well if I can make it at home for free and it's going to boost my MYCO growth whilst protecting my roots and conditioning my medium why not

Now hopefully you can see why im testing on these lab rats. If managing my PH can be one less job I'm in. Again there's a possibility that I could have introduced MYCO too late to be effective, also whilst researching I'm thinking I should have gone with @DYNOMYCO for testing. Q4 was available in a standard hardware shop but should I fail this time I think Dyno will be my phase two as it's rated the best being a sponsor I probably could have just asked them posting this now

Happy weekend!

 

[Bill284]

Hey Buddy
I just received a new bag of Bokashi.
Bloom ?? I’ll post a pic.
It’s cheap enough that I just buy mine.
I have enough to do without brewing Bokashi too.
I mix it with a proprietary mix of insect Frass called Frass & Dazzle. Brilliant stuff
So many good things included in it.
And of course old faithful @DYNOMYCO
Remo nutrients has something called Natures Candy I use to keep the microbes well fed.
Healthy happy coco combined with my perlite layering creates a fantastic base for my girls roots.
I don’t prune or defol.
The big healthy root zone I create feeds huge amounts of nutrients to my girls.
Giving bud sites everything they need to produce a great big cola.
I always say I grow roots not plants.
For my efforts I’m rewarded with a great big healthy girl.
Oh yea here is the Bokashi pro bloom.
Have a great weekend my friend.

@Bill284 Method


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Greenvein]

Hey Buddy
I just received a new bag of Bokashi.
Bloom ?? I’ll post a pic.
It’s cheap enough that I just buy mine.
I have enough to do without brewing Bokashi too.
I mix it with a proprietary mix of insect Frass called Frass & Dazzle. Brilliant stuff
So many good things included in it.
And of course old faithful @DYNOMYCO
Remo nutrients has something called Natures Candy I use to keep the microbes well fed.
Healthy happy coco combined with my perlite layering creates a fantastic base for my girls roots.
I don’t prune or defol.
The big healthy root zone I create feeds huge amounts of nutrients to my girls.
Giving bud sites everything they need to produce a great big cola.
I always say I grow roots not plants.
For my efforts I’m rewarded with a great big healthy girl.
Oh yea here is the Bokashi pro bloom.
Have a great weekend my friend.

@Bill284 Method


Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks Bill I asked you a couple of weeks ago what's in the Bill Method Mix just to check it out.. if all works well I will definitely consider buying bokashi like yours as mine has a lower shelf life but looking more into recolonization rather then a complete fresh batch. Otherwise it's definitely cheap enough

I looked into frass n dazzle but that was special for Ontario so I checked again for insect frass and it's definitely amazing stuff I was weeks from pay day so I cheaped out but if this works I can see myself adding it to my mix

Insect frass:
Chitin, Plants detect the presence of this and are ‘tricked’ into thinking an attack is imminent; consequently, their in-built resistance to pests and disease is triggered and growth rates, productivity and immune response are all boosted significantly

chock full of micronutrients, with high levels of natural silicon, and very low levels of sodium and chloride. it causes the plant to produce its own defenses, which include insecticidal enzymes, alkaloids, and antifungal metabolites that aid in pathogen and disease resistance.

great balance of primary nutrients (NPK 2,2,2), these release slowly over a period of 3-4 weeks, and are easy for plants to take up. Insect frass is also packed full of beneficial bacteria that help plants access more nutrients from the soil.

I'm trying to mix as little as possible with my Coco I just want something to take this little job off my hands growing with synthetics I want to be able to use my Coco at least three times.

Thanks for all the help bud from day one you definitely grow some great plants that's undeniable

 

[Bill284]

Thanks Bill I asked you a couple of weeks ago what's in the Bill Method Mix just to check it out.. if all works well I will definitely consider buying bokashi like yours as mine has a lower shelf life but looking more into recolonization rather then a complete fresh batch. Otherwise it's definitely cheap enough

I looked into frass n dazzle but that was special for Ontario so I checked again for insect frass and it's definitely amazing stuff I was weeks from pay day so I cheaped out but if this works I can see myself adding it to my mix

Insect frass:
Chitin, Plants detect the presence of this and are ‘tricked’ into thinking an attack is imminent; consequently, their in-built resistance to pests and disease is triggered and growth rates, productivity and immune response are all boosted significantly

chock full of micronutrients, with high levels of natural silicon, and very low levels of sodium and chloride. it causes the plant to produce its own defenses, which include insecticidal enzymes, alkaloids, and antifungal metabolites that aid in pathogen and disease resistance.

great balance of primary nutrients (NPK 2,2,2), these release slowly over a period of 3-4 weeks, and are easy for plants to take up. Insect frass is also packed full of beneficial bacteria that help plants access more nutrients from the soil.

I'm trying to mix as little as possible with my Coco I just want something to take this little job off my hands growing with synthetics I want to be able to use my Coco at least three times.

Thanks for all the help bud from day one you definitely grow some great plants that's undeniable

Thank you my friend
Frass & Dazzle is difficult to get.
It's an old German fellow that makes it.
I was one of his first customers by chance.
Problem is an LP. figured out the benefits and bought his total stock and made a deal for a constant supply.
So he doesn't advertise or even need to sell anyone else anymore.
I'm lucky to have access still.
It's actually 0-0-0 and can go directly on the roots with DYNOMYCO and Bokashi.
Makes everything easier.
The benefits are numerous and so important to a big healthy girl.
I wish I had my notebooks still.
Lost in the fire.
I did hundreds of girls all logged , size weight and general health.
Once I added my combination the results improved greatly.
Nothing better than a huge healthy girl finishing up flower with out a single issue.
My biggest problem now is trying to hold the buds up.
Good problem to have.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Greenvein]

I'm lucky to have access still.
It's actually 0-0-0 and can go directly on the roots with DYNOMYCO and Bokashi.

Definitely lucky bud, over here we don't have nowhere near as much agricultural stuff as you guys or US.
Your probably right on the 0-0-0 I'd take your word over the net any day and that's part of the point of this journal alot of things can be slightly incorrect or only half explained
Just hope it pans out

I wish I had my notebooks still.
Lost in the fire.
I did hundreds of girls all logged , size weight and general health.
Once I added my combination the results improved greatly.

Yeah that sucks bud but no lives were lost and by the looks of it you have the important stuff still stored upstairs possibly a few gaps

Nothing better than a huge healthy girl finishing up flower with out a single issue.
My biggest problem now is trying to hold the buds up.
Good problem to have.

Highly agree

 

[Greenvein]

Its EM1 Time!
Part one lactobacillus
​

This was a fun little project making effective microorganisms. As explained above I'm attempting to condition my Coco this round and hopefully it takes care of its self.. watching closely to other growers who are on the don't check run off side of the fence are all inoculating witch quit expensive stuff like mammoth P, Tribus and cannazym. There's loads out there but getting my hands dirty is what I do and saving some cash is a bonus.

Phase 1 - Rice wash.
At home I eat rice quiet often so before before cooking I washed my rice a poured the starchy water into a mason jar and sealed it with an old odd sock and cable ties

A day later you could already see it begin to seperate..

Phase 2 grow & divide lacto

After three days I stuck my syringe into the centre of the separated rice wash and pulled out 60ml of water loaded with bacteria I then mixed this liquid with 600ml of milk and recovered with breathable lid.

This was put away In a cupboard, I checked daily but after one week this is how it looked.

24 mor hours were ready!

The last job is to seperate the lactobacillus from the curd. I managed to tip it slowly and the center liquid poured out unmixed

So that's all I made for now. I stuck it in the fridge and went away.. I think it lasts up to three weeks chilled in this state but can be diluted and used.

Continued...

 

[Greenvein]

EM1 Phase 3
Activating lactobacillus ​

To activate I mixed my previously made serum with equal parts molasses. I measured by weight but can be measured in ml/gallons.

That's my mixing completed I let it sit popping the lid open daily until it stopped creating loads of pressure inside the jar and she's ready to go! At one stage the solution was really bubble but seems to have finally settled.

Reading online this is further diluted for a soil drench anywhere from 1ml to 10ml/L so being in the middle I will inoculate with 5ml/L this time. Then hopefully I won't be using it again. If in mid flower my PH drops I will see if this helps at all but I'm hoping once I inoculate now I shouldn't have to use it again

That's me for today! Hope your all making the most of your weekends

 

[Bill284]

Good Work
I top dress with bokashi & frass every week to 10 days.
It may be overkill but works for me.
Hope your weekend is going well my friend.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[024backwards]

Another day another shift complete so I'm only spending a hour or two in my garden a day, as you know... life gets in the way but today I finished lollypoping all 4 plants then got them all up potted with some mycorrhizal fungi. After up pot they got a full feed to run off then I was out!
Originally my pots were only half full so I pulled them out filled the bottom and stuck them back in.

Cheddar cheese
Before trim

After trim

Some roots during up pot

Now my mind Melter back in with the
Settled for inoculation tomorrow

Finally Miami madness

​

This is the Myco I used, nothing special but hopefully gets the job done

The plan for tomorrow is to start pulling all my plants down as low as possible, give them a shot of EM1 & seafuel then finally get my light intensity up ready for flip.

Damn, now thats a root ball! I am scrolling up to read about Bokashi but had to stop/comment on these lovely pasta noodles in a dark soiled sauce.

 

[024backwards]

Its EM1 Time!
Part one lactobacillus
​

This was a fun little project making effective microorganisms. As explained above I'm attempting to condition my Coco this round and hopefully it takes care of its self.. watching closely to other growers who are on the don't check run off side of the fence are all inoculating witch quit expensive stuff like mammoth P, Tribus and cannazym. There's loads out there but getting my hands dirty is what I do and saving some cash is a bonus.

Phase 1 - Rice wash.
At home I eat rice quiet often so before before cooking I washed my rice a poured the starchy water into a mason jar and sealed it with an old odd sock and cable ties

A day later you could already see it begin to seperate..

Phase 2 grow & divide lacto

After three days I stuck my syringe into the centre of the separated rice wash and pulled out 60ml of water loaded with bacteria I then mixed this liquid with 600ml of milk and recovered with breathable lid.

This was put away In a cupboard, I checked daily but after one week this is how it looked.

24 mor hours were ready!

The last job is to seperate the lactobacillus from the curd. I managed to tip it slowly and the center liquid poured out unmixed

So that's all I made for now. I stuck it in the fridge and went away.. I think it lasts up to three weeks chilled in this state but can be diluted and used.

Continued...

I'll send you one of my old socks and it will curdle that milk in 2-4 hours max ......so you are going to use this to innoculate your Coco?

 

[Greenvein]

Good Work
I top dress with bokashi & frass every week to 10 days.
It may be overkill but works for me.
Hope your weekend is going well my friend.


Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks I have some food for EM that I was planning on feeding weekly but your usage is a help . I read somewhere it has great effects on yeild and brix but over inoculating late flower can have negative effects on brix. I'm not educated on brix but only negative I've seen mentioned. And I think quite alot of information is regarding growing organic so we wouldn't encounter any of the issues in Coco.

Damn, now thats a root ball! I am scrolling up to read about Bokashi but had to stop/comment on these lovely pasta noodles in a dark soiled sauce.

Cheers bro it's definitely alot better root ball then I'm used too but I usually fill this space with 15 plants instead of 4 these ladies got a much longer veg time.

I'll send you one of my old socks and it will curdle that milk in 2-4 hours max ......so you are going to use this to innoculate your Coco?

You keep your socks thanks mine are ok just the amount of holes was the problem but plenty of life left and yeah I usually don't add anything. Myco and Lacto this time and some other nutrients for the new workforce down there

 

[Greenvein]

Transformation Tuesday!

So I started to clean my plants up today. I pulled all of them down and cut off all the center new smaller weak growth. I still have one more plant to do and may leave a little more growth on that one then just see how they react. If they start coming back up and look healthy I will flip the 4x4 to flower. The 3x3 may be a extra week of veg as I'd like a gap between harvests.

3x3

4X4

The cheese go snap I filled it with some honey and taped it up.

 

[Greenvein]

Oh and first inoculation today!

I pumped 5L of veg mix into my sprayer bottle then mixed 1ml/L of seafuel bloom with 2ml/L of EM1. Once mixed I watered my plants from the resovoir to run off then they got just over a liter each of my inoculated mix.

Heres the seafuel bloom I used, its full of goodness for the microbes and plants..

I won't show you my jar of EMQ again but when mixing I mixed my seafuel first then EM. Looking at the em the microbes must have found something off the pipette I used and it was at the surface for 5 mins then disappeared I hope they work that hard iny Coco.
Also 1ml/L was recommended for hydro but I'm thinking that may mean DWC and as I'm only inoculating once a week I could add alot more as for soill they recommended up to 10ml/L.

Anywho big summer blow out (random)
Peace

 

[Greenvein]

Happy weekend

I was hoping to flip my ladies by tomorrow but we will see I lollipoped & super cropped very heavily so waiting to see a bit more positive growth from the last trained cheese plant then it's go time

I need to install drippers and timers as I'm only feeding once a day mid day but would prefer the mornings. PH run off results of a standard feed for me are -.2 to -.4 so if I feed at 6.4PH my run off will bee 6.0 to 6.2PH but the last three grows this difference in veg would stay consistent and has been the same through this grow too. I haven't consistently checked my run off as my main concern is mid flower but last night I thought I'd check where they are at and it looked promising since adding the Myco, EM1 & fish emulsion my run off was +.3 so feed was in at 6.1 & out the bottom at 6.4 . Very surprised but something is working! I will drop my feed to the recommended 5.8 and monitor a bit more. Hopefully this sits stable at +.3.

A few random recent pics of the plants. They look like they have been through a war but good signs of recovery