Tranquilgreen
Well-Known Member
You are amazing using Doc's kit GT. Inspiring! When you post pictures it helps me decide what next to grow. Thanks!
Graytail's 3rd: 4x4, HiBrix, Latest LED Tech, Lots Of Light!
- Thread starter Graytail
- Start date
Lumen is a measurement of how bright the human eye perceives the light and has little if nothing to do with the spectrums that the various chlorophyll absorb. Looking at spectrum reactivity charts comparing eye and leaf, the two charts are nearly inverse, totally opposite. If 'he' is lighting his kitchen, then he should be worried about lumens. If he's lighting a grow then he should be more concerned with PAR or PPFD.
Amazing nugs Graytail!!
Thnks for straightening me out, Heirloom. I inserted the word lumens when I should have said PAR.
- Thread starter
- #1,705
And in answer to the initial question ...
The big white COBs have the advantage of very high efficiency when you run them at about half power. It looks to me like he was running these at full power, something that you can only do for a few minutes at a time before you get thermal runaway and reduced output. They emit a lot of yellow/green spectra that aren't very PAR useful, but their efficiency makes up for it, so they actually have a higher PAR/watt than blurples.
And @ SweetSue ... I still have 'im by 65 watts and I can run all day!
The big white COBs have the advantage of very high efficiency when you run them at about half power. It looks to me like he was running these at full power, something that you can only do for a few minutes at a time before you get thermal runaway and reduced output. They emit a lot of yellow/green spectra that aren't very PAR useful, but their efficiency makes up for it, so they actually have a higher PAR/watt than blurples.
And @ SweetSue ... I still have 'im by 65 watts and I can run all day!
Underdriven COB's + blurple supplement for the win!
Kalimaki420
New Member
All LED are under driven COB or not, most LED run at 40% to 70% for the reason Grey described.
The spectrum is more green as white is made of blue diodes with some yellow coating.
Main problem still is the heat with COB.
To much watt for a small space is very hard to cool.
The spectrum is more green as white is made of blue diodes with some yellow coating.
Main problem still is the heat with COB.
To much watt for a small space is very hard to cool.
By "Too much watt for such a small space", do you mean the size of the light cabinet, Darkgrow?
- Thread starter
- #1,709
It's Update Monday! 
For those of you who haven't already noticed, I tend to be a rather careless grower sometimes. Every single day of a plant's 150+ day life isn't wonderful and/or fulfilling or exciting, etc. There are days when I don't love having a bunch of different plants to take care of. Sometimes I say fuggit. I'll check 'em tomorrow, they'll be fine. Sometimes they aren't fine. I regressed this week and didn't give the plants their couple quarts between waterings and blew it off, and a few limped on me ... and then promptly yellowed a bunch of fans. The thesis seems confirmed - don't let flowering plants dry out.
On the plus side, it's looks like DrGrinspoon is finished after all.
She might have come to life again, but she looks pretty sweet right now and I need the room. I'll do the chop n trim tomorrow. Rio2 took her place.
DrGrinspoon - 156 days old - 84 days 12/12 - 74 since pistils
I'm really glad I grew this Y Griega - it's a very nice plant.
I have it scheduled for 2 more weeks - should be interesting.
Y Griega - 150 days old - 68 days 12/12 - 58 since pistils
I'm considering letting this Tikal go as long as she might choose to bloom. The strain just keeps blooming in waves ... maybe I'll just watch this time. It's nice and compact, won't take up much space ... I already have ounces of it ...
Tikal2 - 175 days old - 63 days 12/12 - 51 since pistils
Rio1 is frosting up nicely. Heheh, I got lazy training this one and the top couple colas annoy me, but it's a pretty little bush, and the few inches won't make a lot of difference, except that I'll get a couple especially good buds. One of the things I'm realizing about having this much light is that penetration is great. I always tried to be very sure to get an even canopy before, because I was always underpowered. Now, I get another good 4-6 inches of depth and I can get away with stuffing eight bushy plants into a 4x4.
Rio - 117 days old - 35 days 12/12 - 25 since pistils
Now I get to see how well this second Carnival pheno does. The cuts from this one root like they were bred for it! And the stocky strong habit is very useful. I'm going to grow the next one a lot bigger.
CarnivalB - 113 days old - 28 days 12/12 - 18 since pistils
Here's Grin1, still coming into shape. Her mother was a lot more compact. This one is stretchy, gaining 6+ inches the past week. She set pistils a week ago though, so she should slow down soon.
DrGrinspoonCut1 - 88 days old - 18 days 12/12 - 8 since pistils
It doesn't look like Taskenti is going to stretch much at all. I'm so used to sativas that I just haven't found the rhythm of this indica yet. It's so slowwww ...
Taskenti - 83 days old - 7 days 12/12
I'm looking forward to Grieg1 after seeing what the mother has managed. I have her at the size I like and it's in the fabric pot. I wasn't all that pleased with the performance in veg, but it may make a positive difference in bloom.
Y GriegaCut1 - 88 days old - 7 days 12/12
And here's Rio2 in the fabric pot, going into the bloom room today. She got nice and bushy in veg.
Rio2 - 117 days old
Vegging plants next .................
For those of you who haven't already noticed, I tend to be a rather careless grower sometimes. Every single day of a plant's 150+ day life isn't wonderful and/or fulfilling or exciting, etc. There are days when I don't love having a bunch of different plants to take care of. Sometimes I say fuggit.
I'll check 'em tomorrow, they'll be fine. Sometimes they aren't fine. I regressed this week and didn't give the plants their couple quarts between waterings and blew it off, and a few limped on me ... and then promptly yellowed a bunch of fans. The thesis seems confirmed - don't let flowering plants dry out. On the plus side, it's looks like DrGrinspoon is finished after all.
She might have come to life again, but she looks pretty sweet right now and I need the room. I'll do the chop n trim tomorrow. Rio2 took her place.DrGrinspoon - 156 days old - 84 days 12/12 - 74 since pistils
I'm really glad I grew this Y Griega - it's a very nice plant.
I have it scheduled for 2 more weeks - should be interesting.Y Griega - 150 days old - 68 days 12/12 - 58 since pistils
I'm considering letting this Tikal go as long as she might choose to bloom. The strain just keeps blooming in waves ... maybe I'll just watch this time.
It's nice and compact, won't take up much space ... I already have ounces of it ...Tikal2 - 175 days old - 63 days 12/12 - 51 since pistils
Rio1 is frosting up nicely. Heheh, I got lazy training this one and the top couple colas annoy me, but it's a pretty little bush, and the few inches won't make a lot of difference, except that I'll get a couple especially good buds. One of the things I'm realizing about having this much light is that penetration is great. I always tried to be very sure to get an even canopy before, because I was always underpowered. Now, I get another good 4-6 inches of depth and I can get away with stuffing eight bushy plants into a 4x4.
Rio - 117 days old - 35 days 12/12 - 25 since pistils
Now I get to see how well this second Carnival pheno does. The cuts from this one root like they were bred for it! And the stocky strong habit is very useful. I'm going to grow the next one a lot bigger.
CarnivalB - 113 days old - 28 days 12/12 - 18 since pistils
Here's Grin1, still coming into shape. Her mother was a lot more compact. This one is stretchy, gaining 6+ inches the past week. She set pistils a week ago though, so she should slow down soon.
DrGrinspoonCut1 - 88 days old - 18 days 12/12 - 8 since pistils
It doesn't look like Taskenti is going to stretch much at all. I'm so used to sativas that I just haven't found the rhythm of this indica yet. It's so slowwww ...
Taskenti - 83 days old - 7 days 12/12
I'm looking forward to Grieg1 after seeing what the mother has managed. I have her at the size I like and it's in the fabric pot. I wasn't all that pleased with the performance in veg, but it may make a positive difference in bloom.
Y GriegaCut1 - 88 days old - 7 days 12/12
And here's Rio2 in the fabric pot, going into the bloom room today. She got nice and bushy in veg.
Rio2 - 117 days old
Vegging plants next .................
- Thread starter
- #1,710
It's starting to ease up a but in the veg space. I started too many young ones in order to keep the bloom room supplied, and that takes up extra room in veg, so it was getting kinda crowded. Now I'm down to just two large pots for awhile - makes everything better.
Next into bloom will be Chan1. After the recent chop I'm really excited to work with it again. This is a damned nice strain!
Channel+Cut1 - 69 days old
Freddy's Best is finally looking like a plant that cares about living but sheesh, it took her a long time! I don' think Ima gonna run me no mo' DP strains. I'm fed up.
Freddy's Best - 76 days old!
The CarnivalA cut that limped along half dead for weeks on end has finally gotten a grip. The fun part is that it stalled enough to let the CarnB cut catch up and now I can run them in parallel.
CarnB on the left - 44 days old and CarnA - 88 days old
In the foreground is another CarnB cut at 44 days old ...
On the left, a recently potted Grinspoon cut at 14 days old and another Rio at 34 days
And that's it. I have recent Taskenti and Y Griega cuts soaking in cups, some DrGs that better root something soon, as well as another CarnB that I'll probably put in soil. It's been in the cup for 44 days now,
I thank you for all your support folks!
It's a pretty special community we have here and I frequently feel fortunate (or lucky ) to be a part of it. 
Next into bloom will be Chan1. After the recent chop I'm really excited to work with it again. This is a damned nice strain!
Channel+Cut1 - 69 days old
Freddy's Best is finally looking like a plant that cares about living but sheesh, it took her a long time! I don' think Ima gonna run me no mo' DP strains. I'm fed up.
Freddy's Best - 76 days old!
The CarnivalA cut that limped along half dead for weeks on end has finally gotten a grip.
The fun part is that it stalled enough to let the CarnB cut catch up and now I can run them in parallel. CarnB on the left - 44 days old and CarnA - 88 days old
In the foreground is another CarnB cut at 44 days old ...
On the left, a recently potted Grinspoon cut at 14 days old and another Rio at 34 days
And that's it. I have recent Taskenti and Y Griega cuts soaking in cups, some DrGs that better root something soon, as well as another CarnB that I'll probably put in soil. It's been in the cup for 44 days now,
I thank you for all your support folks!
It's a pretty special community we have here and I frequently feel fortunate (or lucky ) to be a part of it. 
420Brother
Well-Known Member
lovely update there GT
i must say, ive grown particularly fond of that DrGrinspoon of yours, its just so frosty and colourful.
i see that you top your 5th nod there and then let it veg for a while. Is it worth it for a perpetual grower to veg for so long in exchange for a bigger yield when you can harvest with a lower veg cycle and get less product faster? It's a legitimate question cause ive never went perpetual but im going to so im kinda weighting my options here.
id love your input on that one, thanks again for bringing it everytime bud.
i must say, ive grown particularly fond of that DrGrinspoon of yours, its just so frosty and colourful.
i see that you top your 5th nod there and then let it veg for a while. Is it worth it for a perpetual grower to veg for so long in exchange for a bigger yield when you can harvest with a lower veg cycle and get less product faster? It's a legitimate question cause ive never went perpetual but im going to so im kinda weighting my options here.
id love your input on that one, thanks again for bringing it everytime bud.
- Thread starter
- #1,712
Y'know, I was thinking that this is one of those questions that are argued repeatedly without a clear answer, and then I realized it's because it depends on the setup.
I use grams per day as one of my yield measures, so I'm in a position to track the results of different veg times, and I don't see a clear correlation between veg time and yield. I track total days, and the bloom time stays the same, so the difference is in the veg time. Yes, fewer days in veg reduces yield, but it doesn't necessarily reduce grams/day.
What affects grams/day most is tailoring your methods and timing to your own space, pot size, lighting, temps, humidity, etc. If you can't control all these, you'll find that you'll do best by adapting to them. A smaller pot requires less veg time, for instance. If your lighting is weak, or your temps or humidity are low it'll take longer. If you don't time things right, you have to stall plants in veg, ruining your grams/day.
DrZiggy ran some numbers and found that he got over 1 gram per day on his bloom-from-seed grows in small pots - no veg at all. He routinely got twice the grams/day I do with my 70-80 day veg.
I only have a vague motivation for yield, though. I already grow 4 times as much as I can make good use of.
... I think I'm still only getting 0.6-0.8 grams per watt, too ...
I sure do enjoy your updates Gray! I'm looking forward to your smoke report for Dr. G. I just put mine into flower. That Tikal nug looks very greasy, is that the strawberry pheno?
I love that Y Griega, looks so good in your garden. One of the great things about following and paying attention is that it is like getting growing experience on certain strains. That is one I am super interested in.
On the subject of long veg times and gram per watt or gram per day I look at it like this. For example I have a 600W hps I have dedicated for veg right now. It's just there doing its thing. 18/6 day in day out. It will get replaced with LED after a few months but that will be dedicated as well and less power at that. I treat it as a fixed expense like people do with AC or a dehumidifier. The time that plants take in veg is immaterial because like many others I take clones of plants going into flower that need a good bottom trimming. If I need more of a certain plant I will take some in veg as well to get numbers up. Any veg plant may get bonsai treatment for awhile, it's like keeping them in suspended animation. I would hate to do a gram/day analysis on those plants lol.
Most of these clones root in 7-10 days and are planted. They are forced to be in veg for two months+ because that is the time it's going to take to get them into flower. So they grow and do their thing and then it's time to flip. So as I see it that is a necessary evil and wouldn't penalize them for me having lack of flowering space. I am sure some would like it if they could get in there at six weeks but it is the nature of the business you know?
Now flowering time, that is different. That is where a strain can throw a wrench in the works. Flowering room is precious and if a strain takes 10-12 weeks it better be worth it. There are other girls waiting for their chance to shine. Flowering is the rate limiting step. In a good perpetual the veg is never the limiting step, in fact I end up having to cull some veg plants because there isn't enough room to flower them all. It's like a graduation process. Only straight "A" veg students need apply for flowering college.
So I agree with grams/day but only as a flowering metric. By examining grams/watt/day flower you can really find out who gets sumo cum loude and who barely scraped by with a "C" average.
On the subject of long veg times and gram per watt or gram per day I look at it like this. For example I have a 600W hps I have dedicated for veg right now. It's just there doing its thing. 18/6 day in day out. It will get replaced with LED after a few months but that will be dedicated as well and less power at that. I treat it as a fixed expense like people do with AC or a dehumidifier. The time that plants take in veg is immaterial because like many others I take clones of plants going into flower that need a good bottom trimming. If I need more of a certain plant I will take some in veg as well to get numbers up. Any veg plant may get bonsai treatment for awhile, it's like keeping them in suspended animation. I would hate to do a gram/day analysis on those plants lol.
Most of these clones root in 7-10 days and are planted. They are forced to be in veg for two months+ because that is the time it's going to take to get them into flower. So they grow and do their thing and then it's time to flip. So as I see it that is a necessary evil and wouldn't penalize them for me having lack of flowering space. I am sure some would like it if they could get in there at six weeks but it is the nature of the business you know?
Now flowering time, that is different. That is where a strain can throw a wrench in the works. Flowering room is precious and if a strain takes 10-12 weeks it better be worth it. There are other girls waiting for their chance to shine. Flowering is the rate limiting step. In a good perpetual the veg is never the limiting step, in fact I end up having to cull some veg plants because there isn't enough room to flower them all. It's like a graduation process. Only straight "A" veg students need apply for flowering college.
So I agree with grams/day but only as a flowering metric. By examining grams/watt/day flower you can really find out who gets sumo cum loude and who barely scraped by with a "C" average.
I grow in 2(4x4 ) tents with approx same watts in each. tent1 (light 11/13) is about 1300, ..its vertical..i have a shelving uniting in back i use for seeds/seedlings on top and then move to lower shelf with stronger LED (450), then moved to area in front where 600wLED is.
I'm using bigger pots to start/ finish in now than before.. using mostly softees ..
in my tent 2(light 10/14) i have approx 1200W all same height give or take.
--I dont flip since they are in bloom from seed. both with light schedule and lights..
I now have 15 seedlings of various strains.
-15-20 plants of various stages in bloom.. By Christmas most should be completed..i have 1 weds..a Blue Kush coming down.
-several Auto JH x Auto PineappleExpresses ready in week/10 days.
i packed my tents this time more than usual..
I better start smoking more..
I'm using bigger pots to start/ finish in now than before.. using mostly softees ..
in my tent 2(light 10/14) i have approx 1200W all same height give or take.
--I dont flip since they are in bloom from seed. both with light schedule and lights..
I now have 15 seedlings of various strains.
-15-20 plants of various stages in bloom..
By Christmas most should be completed..i have 1 weds..a Blue Kush coming down.-several Auto JH x Auto PineappleExpresses ready in week/10 days.
i packed my tents this time more than usual..
I better start smoking more..
justabluez
New Member
Hahaha! I've been so stoned today that I thought I posted this way back before noon. Two breakfast brownies are.....wow!
I've been laughing all day at the image of you looking at that Taskenti sternly insisting that it behave and "Grow already!" Don't you love the spunky ones though?
Are you finding the fabric pots in crates as convienient as I have? It's definately a staple in my garden from now on.
Great update, as always. You have a string of Carnivals coming along, you lucky man. Think I'll give mine a decent fresh taste tomorrow. Being out of town means I'll get a three month cure on some of it. Well, maybe. Hopefully. You know me, so maybe not three months.
Alright, birthday's over and I wore myself out. Goodnight Graytail.
I've been laughing all day at the image of you looking at that Taskenti sternly insisting that it behave and "Grow already!" Don't you love the spunky ones though?
Are you finding the fabric pots in crates as convienient as I have? It's definately a staple in my garden from now on.
Great update, as always. You have a string of Carnivals coming along, you lucky man. Think I'll give mine a decent fresh taste tomorrow. Being out of town means I'll get a three month cure on some of it. Well, maybe. Hopefully. You know me, so maybe not three months.
Alright, birthday's over and I wore myself out. Goodnight Graytail.
Kalimaki420
New Member
That looks outstanding Grey.
Hope one carnival grow like yours the first has double the leaf you got.
Hope one carnival grow like yours the first has double the leaf you got.
Shoot Gray, I wouldn't of thought you could get any better but here you are turning it up a notch!
By the way, I'm just about ready to start the side by side run of PJ's Organic Soil Mix & Doc's Kit. As soon as I order the Promix I'll be calling on your assistance.
By the way, I'm just about ready to start the side by side run of PJ's Organic Soil Mix & Doc's Kit. As soon as I order the Promix I'll be calling on your assistance.
Man... all your girls have such nice, even, flat-top canopies. I shoot for that goal but often miss the target. Jealous.
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