Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spectrum

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Day 33 flowering (from the flip) in my feminized seed project tent:



Well I couldn't be happier on how the feminized seed project is coming along I checked today and looked closely at all the buds on each of the plants, and all of them are covered in maturing seeds Some strains don't even have any bud and its pretty much all seeds, where others are about 1/2 bud and 1/2 seeds. I should have a nice plentiful seed stock to work with after this grow.

I am so happy that it all worked out so far, and making seeds is actually much easier than I had anticipated. I definitely look forward to finishing this one out and starting the next seed project


Well not much else to report but here are the photos

 

[Mr. Krip]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Nice job, Ice!

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

You guys are seriously tempting me with the seed projects. Once I get tents back up I should start paying closer attention. Just for the experience, mind you. The idea of identifying strains that I use regularly and then breeding my own seeds is mighty attractive. I'm coming up on two years growing, so I still have a bit to learn before I get there. How nice to have so many experiences to draw on.

ShiggityFlip left a post on his grow journal today on far-red light that would make you proud Icemud. I stopped to say good morning, check up on your grow and share that bit of information.

Good morning Mr. Krip. I'm not really following you around, just happened to be right behind you again. We frequent the same journals.

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

You guys are seriously tempting me with the seed projects. Once I get tents back up I should start paying closer attention. Just for the experience, mind you. The idea of identifying strains that I use regularly and then breeding my own seeds is mighty attractive. I'm coming up on two years growing, so I still have a bit to learn before I get there. How nice to have so many experiences to draw on.

ShiggityFlip left a post on his grow journal today on far-red light that would make you proud Icemud. I stopped to say good morning, check up on your grow and share that bit of information.

Good morning Mr. Krip. I'm not really following you around, just happened to be right behind you again. We frequent the same journals.

Hey Sweetsue! Honestly I was pondering doing a seed project for like a year or more, and now I am really glad that I just did it, and have no regrets its actually very easy with colloidal silver I'm super excited to cross these strains that I have kept for over 2 years, and some of my new recent favorites to see what comes of them Plus it will be really nice to have seed stock that I can trade other growers genetics...maybe I will finally come across that Grand Daddy Purple I have been chasing forever lol,

I checked out Shiggity's post about Far Red light, and it definitely made me proud

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Here is a writeup that I did in another thread here, but figured since I test LED's I would share the info...

The topic was on choosing the best LED grow light...


Suggestions on choosing the best LED light.....


1. The company has been in business at least 2-3 years minimum. In the LED industry, I would estimate that at least 70% of these companies fail before the 2 year mark. Also, if the company has been around for over 3 years, make sure they are also introducing new technology and models every so often. Last thing you want to do is buy a LED grow light that is 4 years old as its already outdated and less efficient that current models.


2. Make sure the company provides a good warranty, and has a history of upholding the warranty terms. Some companies I have seen over the years constantly change, modify and update their warranty which leads to unhappy customers, issues with compliance, and customer service issues. If a company doesn't honor their warranty, chances are someone voiced their opinion online about it, so reasearch is you


3. Google the companies name and add the word "issues, scams, problems, or troubleshooting" after the company name and see what pops up. Many times these 4 keywords will pull up a host of issues if they exist.


4. Find out if the company actually makes their own lights, or what role they have in the design. I would estimate that about 85% of the LED grow lights on the market are NOT made by the companies selling them. Many times you have LED grow lights made in China, purchased at wholesale prices by a "company" in the USA, and then a name brand is added to the product, a few LED diode colors are change to make a "proprietary spectrum" and then it is resold and rebranded at about 4-5x markup. If the company doesn't make the lights themself, or doesn't even design them, and just buys premade lights...the chances are pretty great that you are getting ripped off, and that the company will not last if the products fail.


5. Know the PPFD of the LED light, and request a 4'x4' grid showing PPFD measurements at least every square foot on the chart. This is the ONLY ACCURATE way to measure plant lighting intensity. You can guess with watts per square foot, but this is not accurate and in NO WAY will translate to how a plant uses light. PPFD is the way that major agriculture and horticulture companies, as well as scientists and plant researchers measure light. If a company does not have a 4'x4' grid (at different heights) showing PPFD, then request they provide it. Without this valuable piece of data, your guess is about as accurate as their "recommended coverage" which 9 times out of 10 I have found is misleading and overestimated. For a 12/12 schedule (flowering) you want to see at least 500 micromoles/m2/s-1 for a PAR measurement, ACROSS THE ENTIRE 4'x4' AREA minimum, NOT JUST THE CENTER. Most LED enthusiasts and knowledgable lighting guru's go for 800 micromoles/m2/s-1 across the ENTIRE CANOPY and if you are using CO2 1100 micromoles/m2/s-1 to 1500 micromoles is ideal and the max.


6. Choose a light that is full spectrum. Plants use ALL wavelengths of light between 400nm and 700nm, INCLUDING GREEN. Also your LED grow light should have 720-740nm (far red) leds, commonly mislabeled as IR or Infrared.


7. Consider why you want LED in the first place. LED typically is a investment and not the cheapest route for plant lighting. If you are looking for an economy plant light, stick with HPS or CMH as it will usually provide much better coverage and yield for the costs. LED typically pays for itself over time, as you don't have to replace bulbs every year and typically can reduce power by around 20% to get similar yields as HPS. This savings does take time, and the inital cost is very high with LED. So consider why you want to go LED, and if it makes financial sense.


8. Choose the right LED setup... LED is like a bunch of mini spotlights, as the light is very directional and doesn't spread very far due to the beam angles of the LED chips. So consider your growing style when buying led lights. If you grow very large, 4' bushes indoors then the best route to go is 1 single very powerful wattage LED above each plant, and possibly side lighting LED's to increase intracanopy penetration. However if you grow in a scrog fashion, or sea of green, instead of getting 1 extremely powerful light, its better to get a handful of lower wattage LED lights. The reason is penetration, and coverage area. A high wattage LED will have more "throw" of the beam, meaning the intensity will carry further than a lower wattage light, however being its only a small surface area of "mini spotlights" the light will not cover a very large area as most LED's (other than COB's) only may spread about 1 1/2x as large as the light dimensions themself. So for a single large plant, a powerful, high wattage panel is the best choice. For grows like scrogs, small plants or sea of green growing, where penetration is not important, but coverage area is, then the best choice is a bunch of lower wattage LED lights which will have less "throw" of the beam, but will cover a much greater surface area with a much more even spread of light. Usually when consulting growers who ask about what light is best, this is one of the first questions I ask, is what is your grow style, how large do you grow your plants, do you train them with scrog/topping/LST, and is it just a few huge plants or a bunch of tiny plants. By answering this question it usually allows for me to give a better consultation on what light to choose. Again, as I mentioned before, by having a PPFD chart over a 4'x4' grid, this tells exactly what coverage area you can expect, as well as what your penetration will be like.


9. Passive vs Active cooling. Most current LED grow lights feature Active cooling, involving fans that force air past the heatsinks to cool the LED's down. There are very few passive cooling LED's on the market today but they are starting to make their way into the market. Even though this is not a major considerations, it could be, especially for commercial and industrial cultivation centers, as the more moving parts on a LED light, the more chance for a fan failing, causing the light to overheat and have problems. So for most home growers, this is not a major concern as you may only have a few lights, but if you are running a 10,000sq ft warehouse or so, then its a very valid concern. Now a drawback to home growers with passive cooling, is that lights with passive cooling require much larger heatsinks to keep the LEDs at an optimal running temp. This limits the space and many times veritcal height that a home grower can work with. Again this is not a huge concern, but something worth mentioning.


10. Don't EVER believe a LED companies claims, stats, data or specifications without doing your own research. I have come across many many LED company websites that are loaded with false claims, misinformation, blatent lies, and all kinds of shenanigans, that make gullible and uneducated growers think they are buying the golden cow, but instead getting sold some beans (and not magic ones either). Like I mentioned before, most of these LED companies don't even make their lights, and had little to no involvement in the design process, so the likelyhood of the information on their page being wrong is very high. Even most of the sponsors here at 420 magazine that sell LED lights have information that is incorrect and false on their websites, I won't mention names, but I can bet that I could find at least 1 or 2 pieces of information that is misleading on every one of their websites besides maybe a handful. Even if the company has a good reputation, and longevity in the industry, this does not mean they know plant lighting or can verify their claims. Do your own research, ask growers with lighting experience, and take time to at least understand the basics of plant lighting. If you visit my current grow journal, on page 1 or 2 in the beginning of it, I did a nice long writeup to teach people the basics of plant lighting. I suggest you all read it.


11. Don't be cheap.... LED's are expensive and the difference between a premium product vs a cheap economy LED are tremendous. I know most economy LED users will have a problem with this, but unless you have used a premium LED product and seen the difference.. you wouldn't understand. Premium LED's last much longer (lumen maintenance), have much higher efficiency (more light per watt), better color rendering without shift but they do cost much more than economy LED's. Stick with brands Cree, Osram or Bridgelux vero, or Citiled for LED chips that have reputation for quality. Typically LEDs using Bridgelux (3w or 5w), epistar, epiled or other chips will burn out faster, have less efficiency, but also are much cheaper. Either option will work, but the premium chips offer much longer life, better efficiency and for the purpose of LED lighting "efficient" they fit the mold the best.


12. If you commonly spray your plants, or have issues with moisture make sure your LED light is IP65 and rated for water resistance, dust resistance or similar ratings to your needs. Most of these LED grow lights are not water friendly (which honestly doesn't make sense due to the industry they are used in) and most wouldn't last if they got sprayed accidently or accumulated moisture. Its actually pretty rare to find a IP65 LED grow light in the current market, but if you spray a lot of have moisture issues, you may want to consider this.

 

[Stage]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Ice,
Your last post should have had its own thread. Word.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Fantastic post packed with lots of GREAT info! +REPS!

I can possibly add three points of value to this:

First is differentiating rated watts vs. usable watts.

For example, I just ordered a Mars 144 with the 5 watt chips. So, 144x5 should give me a 720w growlight, right? WRONG!!!

720w is the possible output of the light, IF driven to its MAX capacity, which the LED manufacturers never do since they can extend the life of the unit by only driving to a fraction of its capacity. The 144 actually uses 311w from the wall, which is why this unit is comparable to a 350 w HPS. To Mars' credit, they do NOT advertise this as a 720w LED. Some manufacturers will advertise their units deceptively by giving total wattage of the individual LED's and not what used at the wall, which is the max you get!

Next, I would point out that the LED lights, themselves, have extremely long life spans. Usually, you'll see them advertised at something like 50,000 hours, which is something like 10 years running 12/12. However, the component that I've found is most susceptible to failure is the power supplies, which makes both the quality of the power supply and the cooling important factors.

Finally, I would look at the manufacturer of the LED chips - NOT the lights but the actual chips. Most of the reputable/reliable chip manufacturers are US based (i.e. Cree & Bridgelux), even if the lights are assembled overseas.

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Ice,
Your last post should have had its own thread. Word.

Thanks Stage yea I've thought about it many times, but that would open me up to consulting everyone about lights... as much as I like to help I probably would have to charge consulting fees at that time..LOL

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Fantastic post packed with lots of GREAT info! +REPS!

I can possibly add three points of value to this:

First is differentiating rated watts vs. usable watts.

For example, I just ordered a Mars 144 with the 5 watt chips. So, 144x5 should give me a 720w growlight, right? WRONG!!!

720w is the possible output of the light, IF driven to its MAX capacity, which the LED manufacturers never do since they can extend the life of the unit by only driving to a fraction of its capacity. The 144 actually uses 311w from the wall, which is why this unit is comparable to a 350 w HPS. To Mars' credit, they do NOT advertise this as a 720w LED. Some manufacturers will advertise their units deceptively by giving total wattage of the individual LED's and not what used at the wall, which is the max you get!

Next, I would point out that the LED lights, themselves, have extremely long life spans. Usually, you'll see them advertised at something like 50,000 hours, which is something like 10 years running 12/12. However, the component that I've found is most susceptible to failure is the power supplies, which makes both the quality of the power supply and the cooling important factors.

Finally, I would look at the manufacturer of the LED chips - NOT the lights but the actual chips. Most of the reputable/reliable chip manufacturers are US based (i.e. Cree & Bridgelux), even if the lights are assembled overseas.

Great points!!!

Yep you are right about advertised wattage vs actual so many companies advertise as the HPS equivalant, which many times is misleading in 2 ways... not actual draw, and usually wont rival a HPS at claimed wattage

Drivers are the main point of fail on most LEDs, in fact there was a study done on street lighting by the US Dept of Energy and they determined that 52% of the time the driver is at fault, 10% the LED diodes, 31% light housing, and 7% driver control unit. The biggest things with LED diodes is what is called lumen maintenance. For instance a epistar LED is rated LM80 for like 38,000 hours, which means by 38,000 hours its has lost 20% of its original output, where as a cree has a LM80 of around 67,000 hours, and osram ssl a LM95 of 100,000 hours.. So by the time an Osram loses only 5% output, you would have probably had to replace the epistar at least 2-3 times.

Power supplies and drivers are critical too as not only fail rate is important, but also PF or power factor, and efficiency. Huge differences in brands and quality.

The LED manufacture is definitely a huge factor when purchasing a light. Just on efficiency alone, a Osram SSL LED will put out about 2.5x as much light at the same wattage as an epistar... where you are getting more photons for your energy using premium chips does drive cost up significantly where you can buy cheap epistar chips for under 50 cents each, where a SSL OSRAM or CREE will cost 2-3 dollars per chip. Another thing to note is who does the encapsulation of the chip (the protective epoxy lens). This is why you see a lot of epistar chips, and LED companies using them have burned out chips... usually its a poor encapsulation material used. Some companies do this at the LED manufacture. Others don't like Epistar. A common misconception with LED's though is that they are made in the USA if the company is based here (like Cree). Most of their chips are made overseas too. Another really good brand that nobody really knows about is Nichia, which is made in Japan. The Japanese make phenominal LED tech. :

Great points!!!

 

[Tx420]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Awesome discussion on lights guys...I'm takin notes!

Can y'all name 2-3 brands that fit the criteria?

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Tried to rep you but it says I gotta rep someone else first. Well written and enjoyable read. Tons of useful info.

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Awesome discussion on lights guys...I'm takin notes!

Can y'all name 2-3 brands that fit the criteria?

Well I can't name non sponsor's at 420 magazine, and being that I'm currently sponsored by Budmaster I don't really want to be disrespectful in regards to being sponsored currently, but the Budmaster's I am using meet those parameters. The GOD series uses Osram SSL chips, and the COB's use CitiLed which is a taiwan based company who supposedly invented LES technology (COB). They are very close to the Cree CXB chips which are known to be the best, but the CitiLED actually in certain circumstances beats out the CXB's.

There is another brand that I have used, also a sponsor, and without naming them, if you go back like 2 journals you will see the lights I am talking about. They use Cree XTE and XPE chips as well as Osram SSL which even though are a couple years old, still are amazing in efficiency and quality.

There is another sponsor here that name is synonymous with a tree, and I have never used there lights, but they use very quality parts from what I am aware of.

Other than that I honestly don't have experience with the other sponsored LED's here, and couldn't feel confident in saying what parts, LED diodes and drivers are in them.

Another route a lot of growers are going is building their own (DIY) with Cree CXB and CitiLED white COB chips. There are a handful of people here that have done it, but actually there are other videos on youtube that actually show some build ideas and help show the basics.

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Tried to rep you but it says I gotta rep someone else first. Well written and enjoyable read. Tons of useful info.

Hey Shiggity! You reminded me that I was going to rep you for your far red post, very informative and easy to understand. so I will rep your comment in here, but for that lol I always forget about the rep button, even when intending on doing it...LOL I'm the worst at giving out rep...LOL

 

[Tx420]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Thanks so much Ice! I'm not crafty enough to make my own but your post will help narrow down my research!

Have a great day!

Well I can't name non sponsor's at 420 magazine, and being that I'm currently sponsored by Budmaster I don't really want to be disrespectful in regards to being sponsored currently, but the Budmaster's I am using meet those parameters. The GOD series uses Osram SSL chips, and the COB's use CitiLed which is a taiwan based company who supposedly invented LES technology (COB). They are very close to the Cree CXB chips which are known to be the best, but the CitiLED actually in certain circumstances beats out the CXB's.

There is another brand that I have used, also a sponsor, and without naming them, if you go back like 2 journals you will see the lights I am talking about. They use Cree XTE and XPE chips as well as Osram SSL which even though are a couple years old, still are amazing in efficiency and quality.

There is another sponsor here that name is synonymous with a tree, and I have never used there lights, but they use very quality parts from what I am aware of.

Other than that I honestly don't have experience with the other sponsored LED's here, and couldn't feel confident in saying what parts, LED diodes and drivers are in them.

Another route a lot of growers are going is building their own (DIY) with Cree CXB and CitiLED white COB chips. There are a handful of people here that have done it, but actually there are other videos on youtube that actually show some build ideas and help show the basics.

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Thanks so much Ice! I'm not crafty enough to make my own but your post will help narrow down my research!

Have a great day!

You are welcome! Hope all the info helps

 

[drcannabi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Excellent info and effort in writing this up Ice! Tried to rep you but I have to go give someone else reps before I can rep you again lol (looks like I'm not the only one)!

The new BudMaster GOD-8 I'm running is the best light I've used so far. It seems like the footprint is better than all my other LEDs (including BM GOD 1200 Version 1). The plants under that light have the best color least stress and biggest buds I've ever grown. Is there any science behind the new GOD tech that explains this? Also is the bigger footprint just my imagination or is it real?

Thanks Muddy!

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Update time!!!

Day 39 Flowering in my Feminized Seed Project tent.


So things are going really well in this tent and the buds are getting frostier and fatter, and the seeds each day seem to mature more and more as now some of the calyx's are splitting. I have to say I am surprised at how stinky they are this round as the tent is just full of skunky canna goodness. Really not much to report on as of today as not much changed other than routine feedings and such. The weather has been really hot lately in socal so I think it may have slightly slowed down growth and water usage as I haven't needed to water in a while and its been hard keeping my temps down below 90 with the outside temps even hotter. Luckilly by the time the lights go on and the sun starts setting they only have the high heat for a couple hours as it cools down outside.

Well not much else to report so here are some photos.

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

The Veg Tent: Day ??? (I don't track veg..) LOL


So this tent is also doing very well, even despite the heat wave we have had lately but water use has been slow as they are still getting used to their new soil. I also topped the girls about 2 days ago, as they were bushy but I figured I would top them at least this last time to really get more branching out if possible. I also have to make sure I have enough side branches that I can use for clones in a few weeks. I wish I had already taken them but the plants were still too small to do so, so I will wait another week or 2 and see how things look.

Other than that I haven't given them a feeding in about 3 or 4 days and they still are pretty moist so I will be leaving them be for a few more days to see how they do.

well not much else to report on: Here are some pics

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Smoke Report!!!!


OGIESEL:



Well it only seems right to put ogiesel first since its one of my favorite strains I have. This round with the OGiesel, wow there were some nice chunky buds and they were actually quite dense this round as well. The smell is very very strong, like a skunky, og with a little fuel, lemon funk to it as well, and it perfectly represents the SFV OG and CHem roots with that funk and the skunky stank from the skunk roots too! Love this strain

Its a extremely strong indica, and this is why I love it. Its that night night sledgehammer followed by the sandman strain that after a few hits naps are so nice.. LOL

The inhale is extremely smooth, and the full terp profile is present and strong, very very sweet piney og taste at first that then is masked by a lemony skunk flavor and the inhale is pleasant and can be held in for a while. This one definitely came out strong this run, and I would say it rivals my last batch under the gods for flavor and smell. The COBs performed extremely well in the terp and taste category, very pleased with how the Ogiesel turned out.

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

[video=youtube_share;BfS72MUe37Q]

[/video]