Munki's Ebb n Flow 3 x 3 SCROG 400W HPS Grow

[stully]

I'm in a rental house and the owners supply a gardener who comes every other week. Trying to keep things on the down low. I will probably try and get an outdoor crop going next year though if I'm still here.

Marijuana acceptance is definitely growing ... finally! It took everyone going broke to finally get the populist majority off of this prohibitionist stance that has existed for the past 100 years. I think it was because black jazz musicians were associated with the herb back then and to keep the black man down, the gov't went after weed. As race relations improve in America, it is nice to see the associated BS public policies fading away as well.

AMEN... Well said. The propoganda the gov't has spoon fed to the public about MJ all those years is starting to fade. What kind of injustice was it for our gov't to pursuade the people that the best cash crop in the history of the world was in fact a dangerous drug? To quote Reagon, "Marijuana could be the most dangerous drug known to man..." What an asshole!!! Lets bring the marijuana injustice to the forefront! Legalize it.. Not legalize and regulate, just legalize it already. Sorry for the long blab, but you got me going. Keep speaking the truth bro.

 

[Munki]

AMEN... Well said. The propoganda the gov't has spoon fed to the public about MJ all those years is starting to fade. What kind of injustice was it for our gov't to pursuade the people that the best cash crop in the history of the world was in fact a dangerous drug? To quote Reagon, "Marijuana could be the most dangerous drug known to man..." What an asshole!!! Lets bring the marijuana injustice to the forefront! Legalize it.. Not legalize and regulate, just legalize it already. Sorry for the long blab, but you got me going. Keep speaking the truth bro.

Yep. That will have to be a whole other thread though. I'm just happy to be left alone by LEOs.

 

[Munki]

Couldn't resist taking some new shots. The canopy is starting to fill out quite nicely. Changed out my reservoir yesterday. I cleaned everything well, ran a Clearex-doped bucket of water through the system for 1 hour and drained it. Then I setup the reservoir with a full aggressive growth level of the GH flora series using the "keep it simple" recirculating guidelines. Let's see what comes out of this. Looking at them, I have been considering the option of taking cuttings but probably won't since I'll be vegging them forever. I'd rather see this screen fill out in the next 10-15 days.

Onward with the pics. (I need a better light source for picture taking)

 

[Sonzor]

Looks like your going to have a great canopy over that scrog before you know it. Great job... Plant look great..

 

[Propa Gator]

In two weeks you will be inundated and one or two weeks into 12s you should cut out your clones. Trust me Munki, the extra growth will be there, but will you have a little space for them? Ready to go starts right after you mow your screen beats a cold restart. Looks like dynamic growth right now, they are happy to be released from the B&D clutches of Tron. "Thankyou Daddy"

 

[Munki]

In two weeks you will be inundated and one or two weeks into 12s you should cut out your clones. Trust me Munki, the extra growth will be there, but will you have a little space for them? Ready to go starts right after you mow your screen beats a cold restart. Looks like dynamic growth right now, they are happy to be released from the B&D clutches of Tron. "Thankyou Daddy"

OK, so cuttings should be taken at the initial stretch of early flowering? There should be plenty of fresh growth then, but I was worried the hormonal makeup in the plant tissues wouldn't be as conducive to producing roots as they want to flower. Good to know.

I could propagate some clones in the tron, but I would rather construct a small propagation chamber. Goodie, a new project!

 

[berrydizzle]

I really hope u didn't already start flowering. You should always take your clones from a vegging plant. They will root eventually but it takes longer for the plant to grow because it has to convert back to the veg stage first. It's just better that way but if u have no other choice it is better than starting over. In a few of my previously journals you can see how my flowering clones did.

 

[Munki]

I really hope u didn't already start flowering. You should always take your clones from a vegging plant. They will root eventually but it takes longer for the plant to grow because it has to convert back to the veg stage first. It's just better that way but if u have no other choice it is better than starting over. In a few of my previously journals you can see how my flowering clones did.

This was my concern as well. I'll have to do my own testing here as it does not appear to be a settled question. I will probably just grow out this first crop. I can get clones pretty easy in California and I may want to start from seed once using some solid, known strains. Breeding is something I hope to get into within a couple of years.

I hope to get good at this ... really good ... as I think the skills will pay dividends in the future.

 

[Munki]

I had to say that I just did some LSTing about an hour ago and man, it is getting fragrant in there! I just kept smelling my fingertips for like five minutes, the smell is SUBLIME! A day into the new nutes and boom goes the growth and smell. I guess that is a cool thing about hydro; the quick response of the plants to nutrient changes. Of course, bad things can also happen as fast too, but I'm feelin' much love for the plants right now.

 

[TorturedSoul]

If you're planning on properly filling your screen, all that undergrowth will pretty much be in the dark - so if that's to be the case, you've got plenty of clone material down there now.

 

[Munki]

If you're planning on properly filling your screen, all that undergrowth will pretty much be in the dark - so if that's to be the case, you've got plenty of clone material down there now.

No real place for me to put the clones at this point though so I will grow them out. I got a lot of screen so I keep pulling down the stems that get to the screen and try to force them to the fringes. This is opening up light to the center creating very nice growth. Some of those lower branches are either growing up or out so it isn't too tight in the middle, at least yet.

I don't think I'll try to fill the screen with this grow for a couple of reasons. I am new to growing and ScrOG, so I want to have extra room to compensate for the early stretch of early flowering. Also, I am concerned that I will not have the root mass to supply a larger canopy. I will allow for a larger root mass next time, but I don't want to see my plants get strangled by a root bound bucket mid way into flowering.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Good points. You and your buds will have an easier time of it if your screen is a little under-filled (as opposed to over-filled).

Good point about the root mass too. I used to do pretty large scrog grows (one screen per light) and therefore had extended veg times - plants probably thought that they were outdoors lol - and large canopies. I grew them in those 20 ounce disposable Solo cups that I'd put so many ¼" holes in that they looked like net cups and then filled with the expanded balls for media. The cups were set in the lids of large plastic totes of at least nine gallons each with a DWC type setup so that the roots could grow unchecked into the reservoir. I remember that the roots ran rampant by harvest and cut the liquid capacity of each reservoir by half or so (and pretty much grew over/around/into all the airstones in each - but they were only my supplemental O2 source so was no big deal). It meant that by the latter stages of flowering that I was tending to the reservoir daily. A large fully-mature MJ plant transpires a LOT of moisture, especially when ambient temps occasionally hit triple-digits (I think had I been using any other system - one that did NOT supply constant super-oxygenated water to the roots 24/7 - that the heat would have been a show-stopper).

Oh, and the Solo cups ended up being disposable after all. Although I'd initially planned on reusing them (putting that many holes in each one was a pain unless I was in one of my OCD phases), it was not to be. The plant growing into the screen tended to over time force the cup even farther into the round holes I'd cut into each reservoir lid (sized so that the cup could only sit about half way into it). By the end they were barely sticking up out of the lid, deformed, and about half the time split/destroyed under the lid from the constant stress and the roots deciding that they'd rather be in the reservoir than in some stupid little cup (chortle). The Geolite/Hydroton is reusable, but when the roots have done a jailbreak on the cups and taken it with them into the reservoir, well... I usually lost half or so because I didn't feel like going on a scavenger hunt to pick them out of the roots in the reservoir.

Never had a problem with that method though - not one plant ever "fell out" of the screen. In fact, it got to be a running joke that I needed two helpers to help on harvest day (to hold each screen as I took them loose from the walls and then sawed through the trunk of the plant below it, and then to help carry each screen to the preliminary trim area).

Anyway, I ramble....

 

[Munki]

Good points. You and your buds will have an easier time of it if your screen is a little under-filled (as opposed to over-filled).

Good point about the root mass too. I used to do pretty large scrog grows (one screen per light) and therefore had extended veg times - plants probably thought that they were outdoors lol - and large canopies. I grew them in those 20 ounce disposable Solo cups that I'd put so many ¼" holes in that they looked like net cups and then filled with the expanded balls for media. The cups were set in the lids of large plastic totes of at least nine gallons each with a DWC type setup so that the roots could grow unchecked into the reservoir. I remember that the roots ran rampant by harvest and cut the liquid capacity of each reservoir by half or so (and pretty much grew over/around/into all the airstones in each - but they were only my supplemental O2 source so was no big deal). It meant that by the latter stages of flowering that I was tending to the reservoir daily. A large fully-mature MJ plant transpires a LOT of moisture, especially when ambient temps occasionally hit triple-digits (I think had I been using any other system - one that did NOT supply constant super-oxygenated water to the roots 24/7 - that the heat would have been a show-stopper).

Oh, and the Solo cups ended up being disposable after all. Although I'd initially planned on reusing them (putting that many holes in each one was a pain unless I was in one of my OCD phases), it was not to be. The plant growing into the screen tended to over time force the cup even farther into the round holes I'd cut into each reservoir lid (sized so that the cup could only sit about half way into it). By the end they were barely sticking up out of the lid, deformed, and about half the time split/destroyed under the lid from the constant stress and the roots deciding that they'd rather be in the reservoir than in some stupid little cup (chortle). The Geolite/Hydroton is reusable, but when the roots have done a jailbreak on the cups and taken it with them into the reservoir, well... I usually lost half or so because I didn't feel like going on a scavenger hunt to pick them out of the roots in the reservoir.

Never had a problem with that method though - not one plant ever "fell out" of the screen. In fact, it got to be a running joke that I needed two helpers to help on harvest day (to hold each screen as I took them loose from the walls and then sawed through the trunk of the plant below it, and then to help carry each screen to the preliminary trim area).

Anyway, I ramble....

Well though ramblings none the less.

If you see how my screen is setup, I should be able to just cut the two trunks and pull out the buckets then with help of a friend, pull the top pipe section off, rotate the PVC T joints, then pop it back down if I want to hang it upside down. Or I could attach some PVC pipes to a wall then stick the T joints of the screen into those if I want to suspend it on its side. Nice to have options when harvesting the crop I'd say.

I read somewhere today that it is possible to just harvest the buds from the plants at the end of flowering, then kick them back into a veg mode and re-crop them. Might be an interesting experiment someday, but I doubt I'll try that this time. Don't want to get too 'cute' if you know what I mean.

As far as transpiration, moisture lost had to come from somewhere and the roots do that job. PitViper's last grow is a good example of plants overgrowing their container as he can attest. I may already be in trouble with my bucket size right now with this canopy mass. I'm going to veg at least for another 8 - 10 days regardless, then assess and of course ask the community here their opinion about the switch.

Your story about the cups did get me thinking. With your DWC setup used in conjunction with a ScrOG setup, having the initial cups breakaway is probably a good thing. The screen if properly supported, can support the plants once it grows intangled into the screen. Eventually, some of the weight could be supported by the web of roots below and balanced by the canopy in the screen.

 

[stully]

I've seen great results cloning both ways(not me personally, but on journals), but I think I like the idea of cloning while in veg specially if you got a guarenteed fem. Just seems more practical. Also about the reverting to veg( after harvesting), I think I ill try that on my Magic Crystal. You'll be around to see what happens.

 

[Munki]

About the reverting to veg( after harvesting), I think I ill try that on my Magic Crystal. You'll be around to see what happens.

Right on man. I'll be watching to see your results.

 

[Munki]

I've been a strict master lately. Main stems' tops have been tied down to a horizontal level using the bucket as anchor points. Using garden twist tie that comes on a big spool. Did this at beginning of day 41. Already secondary growth noted here at the end of that same day. Screen should show a noticeable increase in fill over the next couple of days.

 

[Sonzor]

Looking very nice. Looks like you have it under control.

 

[KannabisKid]

Looking good man. I like the setup +reps. Will be keeping up with this one. Kinda interested in scrog.

 

[CharlieMopps]

Aww man, lookin good munki. I think this is the first single plant/light/screen hydro scrog i can remember. I hear ya on the roots but i think the plant could handle it.

 

[Munki]

Aww man, lookin good munki. I think this is the first single plant/light/screen hydro scrog i can remember. I hear ya on the roots but i think the plant could handle it.

Thanks everyone. There is actually two plants in the bucket. You can see them as juveniles in my Phototron thread. I just moved them out and under the HPS. Started the lamp up pretty high, but have slowly been lowering it. I lowered it yesterday by one of the double links that make up the chain. So the distance from the center of the lamp filament to the screen top is currently 11 inches. The fan that blows across the screen really does the trick. It is like having a vented hood. Using the "stick you hand under the lamp for 30 seconds" test, I could lower it another couple of inches, though I really start to lose screen coverage then.

I splurged a bit and bought a 70 quart Coleman Xtreme Cooler to use as my reservoir. I still have to tinker with it, but it should work nicely for flowering. It has the strength to hold all the fluid and is light and air proof. I'll probably drill holes to run the lines and power through. I may need to add another hole just so the air stone can bubble but will test first to see if needed as the return line from the ebb n flow should also work as an air vent.