Quest for 1G/W: 1K HPS Liquid Cooled on a 6' Mover in a 4x8 Tent

[MountainHigh]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Hey bro, I have Zero experience with Hydro but have done some reading brother and I am fighting sicky soil and I had some thoughts.

In bloom as the plants eat the nutrients they are mostly uptaking alkaline nutes so the ph should be drifting downward, if you start your nutes at 5.8, they will drift rapidly without a LARGE dose of the alkaline nutes for them to eat. If you are going heavy on nutes, might just be a PPM lockout, but I don't think your ECC meter would be that far off? Have you tried moving them back to half dose to see. And are you using RO water?

Not sure if ph is the problem, but you might check your ph meter with drops or a different meter. Bet it is reading a bit higher than it really is. If you drift below 5.8 your Mg is out of absorption range and rust spots will start on lower leafs and if you drift below 5.5 Nitrogen is out of range and those same leaves will start to lose their dark green as the nitrogen is moved to the tops...

Where does the "sickness" begin? Bottoms? Middle? Tops?

Hey I took this chart I found and added the words to the picture to they would stay together...it was from here in 2007, seemed like the best easiest chart to cross reference for problems I have found yet.

Hope you don't mind me posting it, if so I will remove it or get the mods to.

I like this chart as it is more descriptive of how the deficiency progresses.

Hope this helps brother. Peace

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

yeah, butch mentioned the greenstay to me earlier, im glad you both like it too. . . I will get some when I can afford it but I am guessing that I am too late for this harvest. I have to be careful about foliars in flower as it is usually 60-70% humid in that tent or more. I never have any mold problems, knock on wood, but I also don't want to tempt it. . . but if it could keep my fans green i think that would be a huge help for me to get bigger yields.

all it has is nitrogen and some cal/mag and things like that. I NEVER floiar spray. i dont care if product say up to day of harvest its will still be in your buds and i dont want to smoke any chems i dont need to. plus mold is always a fear for me to. it will still work in the soil though. its been a while since i used it, since using GH i dont need to anymore. plants have been very healthy since i changed over.

if you switch over to GH you should be very happy. my fans were still green and i used the Lucas formula and it has very little Nitrogen, so you should be good to go

 

[Lemon Paradise]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Want another, "Oh man I'm old moment...."

What's an Album?
What's a cassette tape?
What's a eight-track cartridge?
What's a reel-to-reel?

Man how things change.



Sf.

wow,, I feel old now.....

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

wow,, I feel old now.....

i obviously know what all of those are, but i grew up with cassette tapes. we still use vinyl in my house, and DJ's still use it. When something is sweet it never really goes away.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

all it has is nitrogen and some cal/mag and things like that. I NEVER floiar spray. i dont care if product say up to day of harvest its will still be in your buds and i dont want to smoke any chems i dont need to. plus mold is always a fear for me to. it will still work in the soil though. its been a while since i used it, since using GH i dont need to anymore. plants have been very healthy since i changed over.

if you switch over to GH you should be very happy. my fans were still green and i used the Lucas formula and it has very little Nitrogen, so you should be good to go

The Lucas Formula is very popular isn't it. I might even try it. I'm in hydro though, so i would love to be able to foliar. I used a foliar spray to kill some bugs a few weeks ago. It killed enough that I wont have to spray them again, so I'm happy with that. It smelled bad when it was fresh, but it faded fast. I don't think it'll change the smoke at all.

I've never had mold yet, except in a bottle of pollen I tried to save which I should have put it in the fridge, so I'm not exactly afraid of getting it yet, but i'm not trying to play with fire either.

keep in mind different strains act differently with different nutes too.

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

The Lucas Formula is very popular isn't it. I might even try it. I'm in hydro though, so i would love to be able to foliar. I used a foliar spray to kill some bugs a few weeks ago. It killed enough that I wont have to spray them again, so I'm happy with that. It smelled bad when it was fresh, but it faded fast. I don't think it'll change the smoke at all.

I've never had mold yet, except in a bottle of pollen I tried to save which I should have put it in the fridge, so I'm not exactly afraid of getting it yet, but i'm not trying to play with fire either.

keep in mind different strains act differently with different nutes too.

Yes Lucas formula is very popular, i used it for the 1st time last grow and i had great results especially since i was using leds. i had no troubles at all threw my whole grow, plants seemed to have everything they wanted. some of the best grows i have seen where from lucas form. i also used it in soil witch is made for hydro mainly DWC, but seems to work with everything. its also cheap to run. its worth looking into and reading some threads to see if you like it.

ya i am just too chicken shit to foliar spay when i have buds, dont get me wrong if i had bugs and no choice i would, but if i dont have to i will pass for sure.

you should look into the GH maxi is you want to save money, my plants of now are loving it. the mix i am been using now, is crazy, i have never seen plants react as fast as they do when i feed. the next day its always noticeable on growth. i was thinking it was all in my mind, but its not. one of the additive are making them real happy or all of them. using Maxi Bloom, H2O2 and silica. they just go nutes for this mix. it was noticeably until i starting mixing my nutes in a certain order. allot of us are feeding are plants wrong, the base nutes dont always go 1st, every nutes and additive has and order to be in. ive been studying this the last few days. theirs info on this in my thread.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Hey bro, I have Zero experience with Hydro but have done some reading brother and I am fighting sicky soil and I had some thoughts.

In bloom as the plants eat the nutrients they are mostly uptaking alkaline nutes so the ph should be drifting downward, if you start your nutes at 5.8, they will drift rapidly without a LARGE dose of the alkaline nutes for them to eat. If you are going heavy on nutes, might just be a PPM lockout, but I don't think your ECC meter would be that far off? Have you tried moving them back to half dose to see. And are you using RO water?

Thanks for sharing.

my pH starts out neutral and i dose it down. AN recommends a pH of 5.6, I get it to 5.6 and leave it. It will slowly rise and I will need to dose it again back down. I let it get to 6.1 before i touch it. this usually repeats itself for 4-5 days and then stabilizes. It was taking nosedives 2 weeks ago but since I started the H2O2 (last week) that stopped.

I don't think I'm heavy on the nutes, my water starts out about .3x EC, so 200-220 ppm (a bit hard i know, I have an RO, but I need a new filter, or it would take a week to fill my reservoir) I've been adding about 1/4 strength of the suggested dose amount for my size res, But I am using my EC meter to get to the target EC. I was running at 1.45-1.5 EC (1050ppm), but I upped it last res change to about 1.75 (1225ppm). They look like they are happy, but it's still to soon for me to say for sure, I just changed the res on Sunday.

Not sure if ph is the problem, but you might check your ph meter with drops or a different meter. Bet it is reading a bit higher than it really is. If you drift below 5.8 your Mg is out of absorption range and rust spots will start on lower leafs and if you drift below 5.5 Nitrogen is out of range and those same leaves will start to lose their dark green as the nitrogen is moved to the tops...

Where does the "sickness" begin? Bottoms? Middle? Tops?

doubt its a pH problem, I have an automatic doser that keeps it very tightly between 5.6 and 6.1 and lets it drift between the two. I also have a second pH meter in the Res, so I have doubly redundant numbers to go off of. my EC meter reads test solution right on every time, so unless my solution is off for some reason I think I'm reading good.

I don't have any rust spots, the outer parts of my fans were "burning" and curling. take a look at the pic in my last set, you'll see.

It is only happening to the Biggest fans at the tops of the Best plants. . . I'm starting to think i might have been starving them, but if it is that, then i don't understand how people like 420fied can run an entire grow under 450 ppm and not have my problems. Also, the EC seems to be in the right zone, and I know how to measure.

Hey I took this chart I found and added the words to the picture to they would stay together...it was from here in 2007, seemed like the best easiest chart to cross reference for problems I have found yet.

Hope you don't mind me posting it, if so I will remove it or get the mods to.

I like this chart as it is more descriptive of how the deficiency progresses.

Hope this helps brother. Peace

I always love a good chart bro, feel free. None of these seems to fit my exact symptoms, but maybe a combination of a few? I'll take some pics tonight.

 

[Green007]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

I think foilar spraying is great during veg, but I wouldn't do it during flower. Don't want to promote mold or as Irish mentioned don't want to have it in my buds at harvest.

 

[MountainHigh]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

As far as I understand problems in top fans are immobiles...like calcium and alot of the micronutes are immobile. They have to come from the root system, so either your root system is getting choked (partial lockout) or you don't have enough of what your plants want or at least that was what I get from my reading.

If adding more micro supplement and Calcium doesn't fix it, then your hard water may be your problem...maybe you have high levels of magnesium in your tap water, which is forcing a partial lockout on the calcium. I also read somewhere, high levels of Potassium causes slow transport of calcium...but I think that was plants in general, not for marijuana specifically.

Not sure what AN has for Cal-Mag, but that would be my first try is just adding some of that to see if it is just a deficiency.

Maybe next time you fill you could try store bought water or get your R.O. working to rule out your tap water.

I more or less just stopped worrying about my little Church plant it's leaves got so sick, figured it would do what it did and you know what...it's doing great, some nice bud growing anyway but she looks like crap...after I got the problem fixed that is. Crazy thing is because she was so sick she has only gotten nutes 3 times in her entire life...and has decent bud. She is small though, I really think the plant size is key to problem.

I kinda get to play with this when I bloom my hempy Cheese so wish me luck.

I am really just wishing you the best brother, I know you will get this fixed brother....you have 1g/w to go for!

*Hey on a side note...was reading where your ph is going up...in hydro doesn't that mean she is drinking more water than nutes? Only reason's I could think of for that is heavy transpiration from being too hot or not eating for whatever reason...(maybe I just think too much).

Maybe some hydro masters could drop in for you Wheel, I fear I just ramble...

Hope some of my rambling helps though...

Peace

 

[budlydoright]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

I've been adding about 1/4 strength of the suggested dose amount for my size res,QUOTE]

I'm running GH Flora Nova, Less than 2 weeks into veg and I'm already running full strength. I'm at well over 1700ppm before adding calmag and all of the GH organic supplements. If I don't run full strength, I have a lot more defeciency issues. Keep in mind with the fresca sol fixture, if you have your lamp @ 1/2 the distance from the tops that you ran with your air cooled. Your plants are receiving up to 4X the lumens. they become some real hungry girls. Try using your nutes as directed and see what happens.

I'll even run at full strength + when the Co2 is 1500ppm. I push it until the plants on the outer edge get a tiny bit of tip burn, then I hold at that level. Plants in the hot spots will show defeciencies first, plants on the edges of your lighting will show overfertalization first.

 

[Bolivar]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

...*Hey on a side note...was reading where your ph is going up...in hydro doesn't that mean she is drinking more water than nutes?

I'd like that cleared up myself, since I thought that it was the nutes that held pH down, and as the plants used them up, the pH drifts up.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

the mix i am been using now, is crazy, i have never seen plants react as fast as they do when i feed. the next day its always noticeable on growth. i was thinking it was all in my mind, but its not. one of the additive are making them real happy or all of them. using Maxi Bloom, H2O2 and silica. they just go nutes for this mix. it was noticeably until i starting mixing my nutes in a certain order. allot of us are feeding are plants wrong, the base nutes dont always go 1st, every nutes and additive has and order to be in. ive been studying this the last few days. theirs info on this in my thread.

I used to think the same way, I'd see a noticable growth spurt and think, "I must have the nutrients dialed-in." And that might well be true. But I've been thinking about it and it seems that if you do something and get a spurt, it might just mean that the plants were hungry when you fed them. I now think it might be better for the plants (and possibly for the yield, IDK) if one has the feeding schedule/ratios/strengths such that there is no spurt - no "Oh thank goodness he finally FED us, now we can grow some," but instead plants that are adequately fed the entire time and thus growing steadily the entire time.

But saying it is one thing, lol.

my pH starts out neutral and i dose it down. AN recommends a pH of 5.6, I get it to 5.6 and leave it. It will slowly rise and I will need to dose it again back down. I let it get to 6.1 before i touch it. this usually repeats itself for 4-5 days and then stabilizes. It was taking nosedives 2 weeks ago but since I started the H2O2 (last week) that stopped.

I don't think I'm heavy on the nutes, my water starts out about .3x EC, so 200-220 ppm (a bit hard i know, I have an RO, but I need a new filter, or it would take a week to fill my reservoir) I've been adding about 1/4 strength of the suggested dose amount for my size res, But I am using my EC meter to get to the target EC. I was running at 1.45-1.5 EC (1050ppm), but I upped it last res change to about 1.75 (1225ppm). They look like they are happy, but it's still to soon for me to say for sure, I just changed the res on Sunday.

doubt its a pH problem, I have an automatic doser that keeps it very tightly between 5.6 and 6.1 and lets it drift between the two. I also have a second pH meter in the Res, so I have doubly redundant numbers to go off of. my EC meter reads test solution right on every time, so unless my solution is off for some reason I think I'm reading good.

I don't have any rust spots, the outer parts of my fans were "burning" and curling. take a look at the pic in my last set, you'll see.

It is only happening to the Biggest fans at the tops of the Best plants. . . I'm starting to think i might have been starving them, but if it is that, then i don't understand how people like 420fied can run an entire grow under 450 ppm and not have my problems. Also, the EC seems to be in the right zone, and I know how to measure.

I always love a good chart bro, feel free. None of these seems to fit my exact symptoms, but maybe a combination of a few? I'll take some pics tonight.

Hey? If a person runs a low-EC nutrient-profile then they must have each component dialed-in. If a person runs higher, there is some room for "slop," so to speak. Someone else's 450ppm might have just enough of each component while a 725ppm solution might have plenty of some components and NOT enough of others. Remember that an EC/TDS meter only gives you one overall reading and doesn't tell you what you've got of each part.

And the different components (nutrient-salts) would give slightly different readings when their actual PPMs were the same because of how the meters measure (the EC of different substances is... different). Mix several things together and it gets fuzzy. Use a manufacturer's nutrient calculator and you have a better chance of knowing exactly what (and what strengths of) are in the mix..

But then let a bunch of hungry plants feast on it for a bit and you can't exactly use the EC meter to tell WHAT got consumed from the solution.

And organics that aren't made up of salts aren't going to read (or at least not nearly what their PPMs alone would make a person expect compared to salts.

Just takes time with each strain and nutrient combination to get to know what each change (to whatever) means.

As far as I understand problems in top fans are immobiles...like calcium and alot of the micronutes are immobile. They have to come from the root system, so either your root system is getting choked (partial lockout) or you don't have enough of what your plants want or at least that was what I get from my reading.

Pretty much what I heard. If the problem appears in the new growth then it's a deficiency (or lockout) in one or more of the un-transportable components because when the old-growth was, err, new, there were (presumably) no deficiencies - so those leaves were fine, and still are because the plant cannot transport the components out of there to aid the newer growth. If the problem appears in the old growth then it's a deficiency/lockout in one or more of the transportable components - the plant moved things out of the old-growth leaves to even out the plant which didn't leave enough to keep the old-growth happy.

And if it happens all over, the plants are just hungry in general.

Those, along with a good set of meters and the "pH rises, PPMs drop - feeding; PPMs climb, water-level drops - using water but not feeding; pH tanks - go scrape the algae off your roots" things can go a long way.

Speaking of meters, didn't you have some electrical gremlin at one point some time back that caused you to have screwy meter-readings? It couldn't have come back... could it?

If adding more micro supplement and Calcium doesn't fix it, then your hard water may be your problem...maybe you have high levels of magnesium in your tap water, which is forcing a partial lockout on the calcium. I also read somewhere, high levels of Potassium causes slow transport of calcium...but I think that was plants in general, not for marijuana specifically.

Not sure what AN has for Cal-Mag, but that would be my first try is just adding some of that to see if it is just a deficiency.

Maybe next time you fill you could try store bought water or get your R.O. working to rule out your tap water.

I more or less just stopped worrying about my little Church plant it's leaves got so sick, figured it would do what it did and you know what...it's doing great, some nice bud growing anyway but she looks like crap...after I got the problem fixed that is. Crazy thing is because she was so sick she has only gotten nutes 3 times in her entire life...and has decent bud. She is small though, I really think the plant size is key to problem.

I kinda get to play with this when I bloom my hempy Cheese so wish me luck.

I am really just wishing you the best brother, I know you will get this fixed brother....you have 1g/w to go for!

*Hey on a side note...was reading where your ph is going up...in hydro doesn't that mean she is drinking more water than nutes? Only reason's I could think of for that is heavy transpiration from being too hot or not eating for whatever reason...(maybe I just think too much).

Maybe some hydro masters could drop in for you Wheel, I fear I just ramble...

Hope some of my rambling helps though...

Peace

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

I used to think the same way, I'd see a noticable growth spurt and think, "I must have the nutrients dialed-in." And that might well be true. But I've been thinking about it and it seems that if you do something and get a spurt, it might just mean that the plants were hungry when you fed them. I now think it might be better for the plants (and possibly for the yield, IDK) if one has the feeding schedule/ratios/strengths such that there is no spurt - no "Oh thank goodness he finally FED us, now we can grow some," but instead plants that are adequately fed the entire time and thus growing steadily the entire time.

But saying it is one thing, lol.

Good point.lol. why do you have to burst my bubble?.lol. i was all happy and now you have me 2nd guessing myself.lol.
no that was a good post and i never thought of it like that. as long as their healthy them i am happy.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Haha, hit the Quote button on that post and take a look at what you end up with and tell me what's wrong with that picture, lol.

Not a bug, precisely, but a limitation of the forum software to deal with creative QUOTE codes.

Speaking of which, it looks like I hosed the quoting in post #453. Must have forgotten to delete the last part that I wasn't trying to respond to. Whoops.

i was all happy and now you have me 2nd guessing myself.

Ahh... My work is done.

J/K, lol.

But you know what they say about complacency & idle hands and all that. And constantly thinking about what you might do better in the future is probably a safer activity than constantly tinkering with stuff.

 

[Keith Lake]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

^^ I fixed the syntax

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

disaster strikes again. today i dumped my entire res on my downstairs neighbor. i had to pull out all the carpeting except what was under the tent. i ruined their ceiling, a computer, and a bunch of her artwork. i feel terrible, they are good people.

my lame excuse was that i had a 55 gal fish tank break. i told them that the fish were dead and that there was no chance of a repeat since it was broken and i was going to toss it.

I have two weeks left before my target harvest date. I was thinking if pulling them tonight, but i have rethought it and have decided to finish them out properly.

Then I'm done growing until I have a better living situation. I am just too absent minded to be trusted with all of the water. . . I have spilled it too many times and am running out of excuses.

I have a friend who grows this strain, and he can hook me up with the same quality I have become accustomed too.

two weeks and this journal is done, and I am done. it's been educational. so glad to have met so many good people here. I'll still enjoy reading and chatting here, so i'll still stop in and chat, but i'm seriously done now.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

also, thank you so much for everyone trying to help me figure out my recurring nute problem.

I think it has become a mute point now, but thanks anyways. you guys are all good people.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Condolances.

Glad your excuse was accepted. Hope that whoever's insurance gets the claim doesn't hassle.

It just won't be the same without having one of your ongoing journals to read. But it does sound like you're having some bad times and that has to be seriously undercutting your enjoyment.

Hope you find a place that is better suited for gardening. IDK what your area is like but if it is smallish, maybe you could find a decent garage apartment - usually smaller and cheaper than the average house but with no neighbors living under the same roof.

 

[budlydoright]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Man, that's a drag. I bet your gonna miss doing it too much to completely get out. when the bug bites you to get back in. Go simple, soil or hand water coco in 5 gal containers.

make it super simple and smaller. You might actually get as much or more out of it!

sorry your going through that.....

 

[Propa Gator]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

I've shunned reservoirs for several reasons, but your disaster is the biggest.
I still hand-water the cage daily. I mix one gallon everyday, pour it in and collect a pint or two runoff. Done for the day with no need for an ark on standby.
My favorite auto designer/engineer Colin Chapman said: "Simplify, then add lightness". Good engineering for more than just cars.

Goodluck Wheelo, with bringing in your crop and settling your liabilities.
Then in finding a more suitable abode/growroom