Relaxed's Winter Experiment

[Lester Freeman]

Well, this is actually a slightly complicated question - so I extracted a quote for us to dissect.

Is the moonlight enough to affect plants?
"From laboratory experiments, it’s known that light intensities as low as 0.1 lux (approximately 0.01 foot-candle) during the night can influence photoperiodic time measurement in some plants and animals."

"Yet the intensity of light from a full moon on a cloudless night may reach 0.3 lux at latitude of 50′, and more than three times this value in tropical regions."

"This fact led E. Bunning and his colleagues (ref 2 below) to inquire whether moonlight can disturb time measurement. Surprisingly, their investigations revealed that some plants have adaptive mechanisms that apparently prevent moonlight from interfering with photoperiodism."

"Some long-night plants (a.k.a., short-day plants) flower most prolifically when grown with low intensity light (approximately 0.5 lux) rather than complete darkness during the night. In these plants, moonlight probably increases the number of flowers produced by a short-day regime."

"However, flowering of Pharbitis nil (Morning Glory) plants was slightly inhibited by exposure to the light of the full moon for 8 or more hours with a single dark period of 16, 14 or 13 h. It is suggested that in the natural environment moonlight may have at most only a slight delaying effect on the time of flower induction in short-day plants (see ref. 3 below)"

My thoughts
So it obviously an issue that all plants deal with. For some it helps, for some it doesn't. So 1) We consider it's adaptive ability as a species 2) The actual geographic location of the plants, since when we get further into the tropics we may have a greater moon-light intensity - hence greater chance of breaching that threshold, and interfering with time-measurement.

A technique used by plants to limit the moon-light uptake is called photoperiodic perception, or "sleep movements", so they will actually adjust the orientation of the leaves to go from a horizontal fashion, to an upright vertical fashion. This can help the plants so that they do not pass their threshhold for time measurement interference. In some plants, they even completely roll the leaf about the x-axis and shade each other at the surface, since it is claimed light breaks at the top of the plant are more sensitive than at the bottom.

So, BAR, indeed, the moon-light intensity and exposure time does and can have an effect on flowering plants. But there are a lot other things to consider when talking about why something "went hermie".... I think cronic touched up on a lot of the good points as far as indoor tents go. And it certainly goes hand in hand with the fact that the moon-light can effect the flowering signals of plants.

 

[B A R]

Thanxx Lester & Chronic. I'm still somewhat baffled. The points you two made are note worthy & did help but leads me to believe that cannabis in it's natural habitat is an (aka short day plant)

"Some long-night plants (a.k.a., short-day plants) flower most prolifically when grown with low intensity light (approximately 0.5 lux) rather than complete darkness during the night. In these plants, moonlight probably increases the number of flowers produced by a short-day regime."

Because it starts to flower in the fall when the nights are longer; 18/6 simulating Spring/early Summer & 12/12 simulating late Summer/Fall.
I've done a little research on Light Spectrums & came to my own however half-ass backwards conclusion that LEDs together with CFLs is the closest to fake sunlight. You're still missing plenty Rays but those two light sources combined appear to cover more Spectrums than any other combination or single source. From my comprehension of my readings you could use other sources to get a much more concentrated strength of certain important rays but not as many different ones. Actually a spectrum is one thing but it makes it easier for me to understand while I'm explaining it in my mind & to you.

So assuming cannabis is a "Long Night Plant" we should be simulating Night light also when growing indoors. Not that it's something I'm willing to attempt at this Newbe stage in my growing career but is it something worth looking into?

I do re-call when I ordered my beans that some seeds were indoor, some were outdoor, & some were indoor/outdoor. Maybe the only difference is how they react to Night Light. Sometimes I over think stuff.

 

[Lester Freeman]

BAR, you would be correct in your assumption that cannabis is indeed a short day plant (long night plant). There are some indoor lights that have programmed Sunrise/Sunset functions (which is essentially a dimmer), as well as an integrated moon-light function built in.
Indeed that, pure 100% darkness really does not exist outside in nature, because of the moon, and the star-light...

You bring up some unique ways of thinking, it is good to see how other people view the world.

PS May I add that, it is incredibly difficult to actually replicate mother nature, so I'm sure it would take a lot of experience, trial and error to be able to even come close to actually replicating outdoor conditions inside. So I wouldn't even try because I just grow outdoors anyway, and we just discussed how the moon-light can negatively or positively effect the flowering process depending on the species (and I'm guessing cannabis is quite sensitive)

Here's a little link I found where they were discussing something like this Phased Indoor Moon?

 

[Crawdaddy]

My uncle who grows the best weed I have ever smoked on the Big Island would always plant seeds or harvest on the full moon. He was very adamant about the plants being tuned in to that aspect of their environment.

Who knows if it was stoner hippy logic or there was some actual truth to it, but he grew great stuff so....

 

[B A R]

Thanxx Lester. I'm just trying to understand this cannabis growing thing to the best of my abilities. I've been smoking non-stop since I was a teenager & if I could count all the dollars I've spent on weed in my life; Forget about it! If I'm going to grow my own weed I might as well do it right. I started doing a lot of reading on lighting when I 1st heard about how much better LEDs were which lead to me thinking about natural sunlight & that it was what we try to emulate indoors. We can't just read & not analyze what we read.

 

[Lester Freeman]

My uncle who grows the best weed I have ever smoked on the Big Island would always plant seeds or harvest on the full moon. He was very adamant about the plants being tuned in to that aspect of their environment.

Who knows if it was stoner hippy logic or there was some actual truth to it, but he grew great stuff so....

Nice, I'm just speculating, but I believe the origin of the term "Full Harvest Moon" came from the idea that there was not enough time in the day to fully harvest all the crops, so you could continue harvesting through out the night because of how bright the moon is on that night, as well as that particular full moon happens to appear right about the time we are pulling our crops.

Thanxx Lester. I'm just trying to understand this cannabis growing thing to the best of my abilities. I've been smoking non-stop since I was a teenager & if I could count all the dollars I've spent on weed in my life; Forget about it! If I'm going to grow my own weed I might as well do it right. I started doing a lot of reading on lighting when I 1st heard about how much better LEDs were which lead to me thinking about natural sunlight & that it was what we try to emulate indoors. We can't just read & not analyze what we read.

I can say the same, I have spent so much money at medical dispensaries, etc. that I could have bought a BMW. That is why I will only grow my own medicine, and only go to the club incase of absolute emergency. It is boggling to me how expensive it is on a retail level.
Like all the phenomena that exist in the Universe, ,all we try to do as humans, is to continue to try and understand the physical world we live in, so that we can be One with the Universe

 

[B A R]

Like all the phenomena that exist in the Universe, ,all we try to do as humans, is to continue to try and understand the physical world we live in, so that we can be One with the Universe

 

[goofyfoot]

Hey All would like to see how they come along also. Here in Florida I am a 1/4 to a 1/2 mile from the beach. ( Atlantic) I see the same effects when it drops to 40* - 45* mainland, we only drop to 52*- 56* because of the ocean temps. Surf temps run at 58* to 62* all winter, and if it were not for the wind chills with the passing fronts. Average air temps are 62* to 68*. I was thinking a small "shrink wrap" clear plastic green house, using 3/8" pvc water line as the igloo or teepee shaped frame. The same stuff they use in the Coke and Pepsi machines, it flex`s and is also stiff. More worried about the salt mist / sea fog in the mornings because the water temp is like a cup of hot coffee. There is a salty dampness on everything. But even at 50* if your out of the wind you will still need sunscreen and will get burned. Plus there are a lot less bugs and without the high heat and 90% humidity, winter maybe the shit. I know this, from mid June here till October my plants get screwed if left outside 24/7, it wipes them out. It maybe great for citrus but to intense for cannabis. Good luck and will keep peeking in...............

 

[Lester Freeman]

Yeah, I know what Florida is like, I was born in Sarasota. The humidity is intense. I could not even imagine trying to grow marijuana outdoors in Florida in the summer, that would be pretty tough. I think that growing MJ in Florida during the summer would be a true testament to being a great grower. The humidity alone would be killer, not even mentioning all the crazy bugs that are down in the Everglades... @ goofyfoot -- Would love to peek in on your Florida grows, I think everyone can learn a lot from understanding the differences between growing in such extreme environments. And nice picture ^^ It brought great vibrations

 

[trichomes]

Great share RL great additional info from BAR as well, keep it coming!

 

[Skybound]

In nature, with the exposure to moon and star light (and occasional passing car on a country road), don't cannabis plants hermie anyways? I don't follow outdoor grows yet, but I'm assuming this to be true because of all the other uncontrollable elements of a grow that exist outdoors.

Actually, as far as I can tell, the only thing that indoor growers envy of outdoor growers is all that good natural light exposure. From my perspective, that and of course space to bush out would be the only draw back to indoor growing.

 

[Christine Green]

My uncle who grows the best weed I have ever smoked on the Big Island would always plant seeds or harvest on the full moon. He was very adamant about the plants being tuned in to that aspect of their environment.

Who knows if it was stoner hippy logic or there was some actual truth to it, but he grew great stuff so....

I like your Uncle already!

 

[Lester Freeman]

The potential for a cannabis plant to exhibit hermaphroditic gene expression is a probability function, which is represented to greater or less degrees depending on the actual genetic make up and also in large part the actual growing environment. Some strains have far greater ability to adapt to stresses, some strains it actually makes them more potent and stronger, some strains give in, and self-pollenate, or sometimes in extreme situations almost complete sex change.

This is little off-topic, but some grape growers who grow to make sweet wines literally induce botrytis mold on the stems of the plants in order to force the grapes to condense their sugars, as the water is sucked out slowly by the mold - this makes for a much more concentrated sugars, and a sweet distilled end product, and the flavors can be altered that way -- so the stress induced actually benefits the outcome in that case.

Anyway, it is true that outdoor growing is constantly variable conditions -- this is exactly and precisely why certain years of bottles of wine are better than other years. That is because they had a better harvest one year because maybe it was more sunny, clear, warmer conditions versus, rainy/humid from one season to the next. My plants never have hermie, throughout pounds of bud I have literally only ever found 1-2 premature seeds, all pure sensimilla... good genetics/good environment should reduce the probability function greatly. And when people try to replicate nature indoors, they wonder why they see so many hermies, either that or using seeds being feminised in one way or another versus actual seeded bud (regular seeds).

Indoor versus outdoor growing, where is JTG when I need him!?!? Anyway, I believe for multiple reasons why outdoors is better than indoors, however because of that inconsistency in variable weather conditions, you never know what your going to get, but when things work out, they really do. There is something about fresh air, all the spectrums of the Sun, there is no electricity bill to pay is also a huge factor. Not to mention, my main opinion is that seeing marijuana plants grow outdoors, especially budding females, literally makes me feel so damn good, it brings me spiritual enjoyment to grow ancient medicine as it has been done for thousands of years.

 

[josh223]

Well said.

I actually wish that I could once again grow outdoors. Just not currently feasible. So I envy those who can.

 

[stealthgrow]

Hi RL, I'm all caught up on the journal and sub'd, seedlings are coming along great.

 

[Skybound]

I think I am starting to understand the spiritual tranquility that seeing a budding female gives. I perused a James The Green journal and am greatly impressed. I wish I was not in the jet stream or a cold winter environment, because a JTG harvest is gargantuan! I actually need to spend more time reading his journal entries as I want to try outdoors in 2014. If I can plant 10 and harvest 1, I will chalk that up as a victory, especially if it is a multipound harvest.

Thanks for sharing your noggin with use RL!

 

[NorCaliwood]

Drive by Lester. You was wondering abit about the moonlight, plants that are grown outdoors get use to the moonlight or other light stresses. I've always wondered about lights during the fall time. I've got a street light that hits my yard. Now if I was back in Arkansas I'd have done took a 22 to it but seeing I'm kind of in a town I can't. But my plants always flower out fine even the ones the streetlight hits all night long. Plants do adapt well to things in nature. Long as the temps aren't to low, and it's not raining everyday, plants kind of slow down when temps get below 50. But the moon I woodn't worry about. Now if you halfway thru flowering and they run into a new light source, now that might hurt you. GL with your experiment, I'll be looking back in. Keepem Green

 

[B A R]

If I lived Somewhere that I could have a house there's no way in the world I wouldn't grow cannabis trees in my back yard. I'd take what ever stealth methods were necessary; Tall fences, whatever! That's a mouthful coming from a newbe but this is one of the most relaxed enjoyments I've come across in years.

& more importantly, that's how cannabis was meant to grow.

 

[Lester Freeman]

Well said.

I actually wish that I could once again grow outdoors. Just not currently feasible. So I envy those who can.

Thanks, I feel ya. I do envy indoor growers, it would be nice to have the best of both worlds.

Hi RL, I'm all caught up on the journal and sub'd, seedlings are coming along great.

Howdy stealthgrow, awesome and thank you!

I think I am starting to understand the spiritual tranquility that seeing a budding female gives. I perused a James The Green journal and am greatly impressed. I wish I was not in the jet stream or a cold winter environment, because a JTG harvest is gargantuan! I actually need to spend more time reading his journal entries as I want to try outdoors in 2014. If I can plant 10 and harvest 1, I will chalk that up as a victory, especially if it is a multipound harvest.

Thanks for sharing your noggin with use RL!

Anytime

Drive by Lester. You was wondering abit about the moonlight, plants that are grown outdoors get use to the moonlight or other light stresses. I've always wondered about lights during the fall time. I've got a street light that hits my yard. Now if I was back in Arkansas I'd have done took a 22 to it but seeing I'm kind of in a town I can't. But my plants always flower out fine even the ones the streetlight hits all night long. Plants do adapt well to things in nature. Long as the temps aren't to low, and it's not raining everyday, plants kind of slow down when temps get below 50. But the moon I woodn't worry about. Now if you halfway thru flowering and they run into a new light source, now that might hurt you. GL with your experiment, I'll be looking back in. Keepem Green

Hi NW and thanks for driving by. Always a pleasure to have a grower of your experience and caliber drop by my little grows. I have the uttmost respect for your experience level and wise words of wisdom. Always enjoy your updates and the mind boggling amount of strains and things going on up there. Yeah, our neighbor has a flood light on a sensor that comes on sometimes, definitely shines on some of my flowering ladies, hasn't made much of an effect, and indeed I really don't think moon-light is a problem. Thx for droppin by

If I lived Somewhere that I could have a house there's no way in the world I wouldn't grow cannabis trees in my back yard. I'd take what ever stealth methods were necessary; Tall fences, whatever! That's a mouthful coming from a newbe but this is one of the most relaxed enjoyments I've come across in years.

& more importantly, that's how cannabis was meant to grow.

I feel ya brother, there is nothing more relaxing to me than to wander the garden with a nice adult beverage and just admire the beauty.
I realize that I am lucky

OK for tonight, I've been puffing the cured "Sour Apple" -- best tasting and smoking marijuana I've ever grown, I hope to be able to find this lady among a Mystery Sativa batch again in the future! Diamond in the rough, I wish you could all smell her.

 

[CronicHempHog]

buds merry Budmas