Stevehman's Advanced LED 360 vs. 180 - Multiple Strains - NFT Grow 4.0

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's Advanced LED 360 vs. 180, multiple strains, NFT Grow 4.0

It looks like the folks at Advanced are checking out the grow as well. I was talking with Kyle and he said that if someone orders a light and mentions this grow, they will do free shipping on the lights. Just mention this journal when speaking with one of their sales reps 800-401-6307.

I have some updated data as well. Some people have asked about heat output on the lights. Here is a reading from the front of the case:

180w light:

200w light:

360w light:

A quick shot of the roots, I couldn't (wouldn't) pull the net pot all the way out, the roots were too bushy:

And a few shots of bud development under the 180W.
Twilight (slower to develop):

Gigabud, showing a little frostiness already:

P-Chunk, looking like she wants to make some big colas, lots of space to fill in:

I am really tempted to do an entire run of Gigabud using a third tube in there. They way that they are all staying about the same height, almost no stretch and getting very stacked is promising. They also look to be making the bigger buds, faster. SO it has promise as a production strain (depending on the quality of the meds).

 

[SteveHman]

Re: Stevehman's Advanced LED 360 vs. 180, multiple strains, NFT Grow 4.0

Also, I think a good part of my rising pH the past few weeks was a result of the algae growth. I've read that algae can cause the pH to rise as they grow. If you are growing in a DWC, NFT or similar setup to mine and using these LEDs, make sure you add an extra layer of light-blocking material. These things are very powerful and this just goes to show their penetration potential.

 

[OldMedMan]

Re: Stevehman's Advanced LED 360 vs. 180, multiple strains, NFT Grow 4.0

Looking Great my friend.

A row of GigaBud sound good.

 

[SteveHman]

Day 21 in 12/12:

Still no flowering on the Twilight. I am perplexed on these girls. The P-Chunk and Gigabud are off to the races and the Twilight is still just sitting there? She is also showing signs of nute-burn whereas the other two are loving the 1150 ppm.

Definitely liking the way the Gigabud is growing. It is a strain that should probably be vegged for 2weeks after leaving the cloner, because she had very little stretch in 12/12. The P-chunk is the stretchiest of the three still. Here are a few pics of the P-chunk:

And the Gigabud:

And the Twilight:

All 6 of the Twilight looks like this. It is supposed to be a 7-8 week strain (according to Dutch Passion). It had better kick it into high-gear the next few weeks if it's going to hit the deadline.

Here are a few of the clones taken at the same time as the ones in 12/12. These went into coco/perlite hempy buckets with OC nutes (2 gal buckets). Under a T5HO. I've already had to top these a few times. I think they will be the new moms (although, I don't know if I'm going to keep the Twilight).

You can definitely see the advantage of vegging an extra week or two. If space/height isn't an issue, I would give them a week in veg to bush them out a bit:

Here are the moms (grown from seed). I am going to put them into 12/12 the 2nd week of July so I can make room for some new moms going in. I have to top these at least once a week.

New pump should be in tomorrow. Looking forward to the increased flow rate through the spray lines. It should create a good amount of splash in the chambers. I should be able to lower the nute levels in the NFT tubes as well.

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Buddy.

Just checking how your doing. They all look good......the Twilight looks good too, but like you said she is an early finisher....she and her 5 friends had better get going. Their finishing time is coming fast. Sorry, but I have one Twilight and now I'm wondering if I should even try her at all. She may spring into action soon I hope.

 

[SteveHman]

Hi Buddy.

Just checking how your doing. They all look good......the Twilight looks good too, but like you said she is an early finisher....she and her 5 friends had better get going. Their finishing time is coming fast. Sorry, but I have one Twilight and now I'm wondering if I should even try her at all. She may spring into action soon I hope.

OMM,
Thanks for checking in. I don't know what to think on the Twilight. I put all of the girls into 24 hours of darkness prior to 12/12 so that should have triggered the flowering signal. I'm very perplexed on this one. If they weren't in the NFT system I would pull them out and put them into another 24 hours of dark to see if that helped.

Give the Twilight a shot, I'd like to see another Twilight grow so I have something to compare it to.

 

[SteveHman]

New pump came in this morning. Here is a shot of the new one next to the leaky Eccoplus that looks like it was used for target practice by a bunch of dyspeptic seagulls.

The new pump is rated at 1110 gph with a max head of 13 feet. It has a 90w consumption. This should provide more than enough flow and pressure for the entire system. It will eventually become the heart of my undercurrent system I plan on building towards the end of the the summer. This pump was $139, which is cheaper than buying the 2 or 3 pumps that it replaces. Most importantly, it is designed-built as an external pump, which means that it should not leak!

I should be able to install this today, I will post a pic once it's in the system.

 

[Maer]

What is this undercurrent system you are talking about?

 

[SteveHman]

What is this undercurrent system you are talking about?

It is a recirculating DWC system that pulls the nutrients through the buckets instead of pushing them. There are a few videos online that show how it works and there's a company that makes them, but they are very expensive if you buy them built. If you have DIY skills, then you save a ton of money building your own. I jest need more space to build one. I plan on putting one into a 4x8 tent with 12-18 sites in it. I'll PM you the site with that sells them, I don't think they're a sponsor, so won't risk having the URL edited.

 

[OldMedMan]

OMM,
Thanks for checking in. I don't know what to think on the Twilight. I put all of the girls into 24 hours of darkness prior to 12/12 so that should have triggered the flowering signal. I'm very perplexed on this one. If they weren't in the NFT system I would pull them out and put them into another 24 hours of dark to see if that helped.

Give the Twilight a shot, I'd like to see another Twilight grow so I have something to compare it to.

Buddy, I will do that when these are done. I think I got my twilight as a freebie.
If mine does the same thing then we will know for sure not to waste our time with her. To bad she sounds so good.

 

[surfinstoned]

Just stopping in to say hello, and to say the ladies are starting to look very budfull! I think i may have to buy an inline pump such as that one for the chiller i plan to buy. I just don't know what chiller to go with. I'm going to need the chiller to cool 2 55 gal res. They wont be full at first they will probably only have 30 or so gallons but towards the end they will both be around the 45 to 50 gal mark. Any ideas on how to do this?

 

[SteveHman]

Just stopping in to say hello, and to say the ladies are starting to look very budfull! I think i may have to buy an inline pump such as that one for the chiller i plan to buy. I just don't know what chiller to go with. I'm going to need the chiller to cool 2 55 gal res. They wont be full at first they will probably only have 30 or so gallons but towards the end they will both be around the 45 to 50 gal mark. Any ideas on how to do this?

The chiller I have is rated at 132 gal capacity. I think the pump I have would be overkill if used just for a chiller, since they only require about a third of the capacity of this pump. The AquaChill 132 requires >235 gph and this external pump is 1110 gph. That's why I have a manifold that divides the flow to three outlets (chiller, NFT and an accessory that I may hook up later, but for now runs back to the res and keeps everything mixed up).

If you are going to chill two reservoirs with one chiller there are two ways I can think of to do it. If you are going to use the same nute solution in both, just use uniseals and some PVC to connect them. I am guessing you want to run separate mixes in each res (one for bloom, one for veg or transition). In that case I would pick up some copper tubing and make a chill coil for each res (about 50 feet per) and then run either R/R water or a glycol mixture through the lines to chill both. This setup will require a small res for the coolant to go through, you could use a small ice chest to hold the fluid.

Then in each of the reservoirs put a large airstone in the center to create movement across the cooling coils. I'll draw up a rough sketch and PM it to you later. (Or I can post it here if anyone else wants to see what I am talking about).

 

[SteveHman]

A quick update. Everything is looking great in the grow. I had one of the Twilights under the 360 looking like it was ready to give up the ghost. I pulled it out gave it a quick look over and noticed that the root ball was a bit compacted in the net cup, probably from when I put them in on day one. I removed some of the bottom of the net cup and cut away some necrotic looking roots and this morning she looked liek a new plant--all perky and pointing towards the lights.

Also, on my latest upgrade to the grow, I attached the 4 large PC fans to some hardboard covered in the diamond foil and [placed it between the NFT chambers pointing up towards the lights. it draws the air and CO2 that has settled on the bottom and directs it past the plants upwards. Since the NFT has 66 deg nute solution going through it, the air surrounding the tubes is cooler than the rest of the cab. The fans are circulating that cooler air throughout the box and dropped the temps down to 84 without the exhaust fan running. Since I am running CO2, that is a good range for the temps to be in. I now have the exhaust fan running only during dark hours on a DNE cycle timer 5 minutes on, 15 off. That means that it is only running for 10 minutes an hour for 12 hours of the day, instead of 24 hours straight. Not a huge saving in electricity, but every bit counts.

I will be out of town for a few days and will have the system on auto-pilot. I will do a last minute nute reading in the morning and then hit the road for a little vacation and not worry for the next 6 days (yeah, right). I think the system is set up well for an extended absence and every thing is runnign smoothly on its own.

The one thing I had to do though was figure out how to water the moms since they are in hempy buckets. I'll do an update on what I did when I return (that is, if it's successful--if the plants are all dead, then I deny ever having any mother plants or knowledge of hempys in general).

Everyone have a great 4th!

 

[SteveHman]

Quick photo update before I hit the road;

pH: 5.6
PPM: 1043 (added 20ml Micro, 40ml bloom, 40ml Uncle John's mix, 40ml PlantAmp, and 10ml of MagAmp to res)
Res temp: 66
Box temp: 88 lights on, 74 lights off (no additional cooling required)
RH: 41%

I adjusted the pH down from 6.0 this morning. It slowly made its way there over 5 days from 5.72, I dropped it down to 5.6 since I will be gone for close to a week and won't be able to monitor it. The pH should gradually go up as the plant uptakes the PlantAmp. Also a fluctuation in pH makes more of the nutrients available over the range.

The addition of the cooling fans looks to be working without having to add additional cooling. Although this only works in a system like this that has cooled nutes constantly flowing).

Here's a pic of the fans in action:

Some shots of the girls. I put little white squares in there to use for white-balance in Picasa, but these lights are pretty bright, specially with all of that diamond foil bouncing it around.

the 180W, look at how much the Twilight has stretched, and still no bud action?

The 200w, everything is looking nice and healthy in here:

and the 360w, not nearly as much stretch going on here, and the Twilights aren't enjoying the extra light, although the P-Chunk and Gigabud are soaking it up:

I really like how the P-Chunks are looking, Very low leaf to bud ratio (as advertised) are going to make these a trimmer's delight. The Gigabud is getting thick and bushy and has a ton of very closely stacked nodes, this could use an extra week of veg to really increase size and yield. The Twilight looks to be a very finicky girl, I would not recommend her for beginners.

Everyone be safe this weekend. I'll update you all in a few days.

 

[OldMedMan]

Things are looking good in there, Hope you enjoy the week off. Happy 4th.

Maybe the Twilight will take off while your gone,,,we can always hope!

 

[Hash Hound]

Nice looking setup there Steve

Question I have, unless I missed it in the journal, how do you compare light output of LED's against other lights so you know how many lumens you are getting per sq ft? Or how big of an area they cover.

I haven't been able to find this anywhere.

 

[Xlr8]

Crazy how those twilights aren't responding. Looking good though - seems like the bigger light is keeping things stacked tighter.

Hope you had a good 4th and time away.

 

[SteveHman]

@Hash Hound. I don't have a clue on the Lumen output. To be honest, I've heard conflicting data on Lumen measurements on LEDs. The big issue with them is PAR. And I don't know if I can get my hands on a PAR meter for a decent price (basic light meters that measure lumens aren't too expensive.

Either way they put out the light and make things grow and that is the key to me. I am sure if you give Advanced a call they can give you the readouts. But keep in mind that ouput drops significantly with distance (true with all lights).

@Xlr8, yeah, those Twilights are starting to piss me off. I will be back on Friday, so I hope to see some little buds showing up. I don't know what else to do but be patient with them?

That 360 is keeping things stacked, and the Gigabud is prone to be short and bushy anyway. Although the clones under the T5HO are getting more stretched out while vegging. A good reason to use the combination of T5HO for veg and LED for flower. I think if I do a full run of Gigabud, I'll let them veg a week before 12/12 to get a little more height out of them

Should have a full report Saturday morning!

 

[420GodsTrichome]

Man I have some catching up to do my friend. Looking GRRREEEAAATT!!!

 

[Crower619]

Hey Steve, Ladies are looking great bro sorry to hear about the late bloomer I've had a few like that in my past grows where the girls wouldnt stop stretching I hope everything works out for you buddy I'm loving the small comp fans !!