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- #121
Mono's 12/12 From Seed - Test Grow
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I've been doing my research on bottom feeding with coco. After the last big plant i learnt it's very difficult to fully saturate the medium, and keep it wet at all times.
Bottom feeding allows me to saturate the medium to run off then it's simply a case of keeping enough solution in the tray to satisfy the plants needs through each growth stage. Considering a large plant uses 6,8,10 litres + per day it makes sense to me to only pour into the tray as the level drops rather than guessing when to water.
Plus, the fabric pot lends itself very well to bottom feeding due to the large surface area for the nutrient rich water to be absorbed.
Another reason for switching to bottom feeding is -
As the plant fills the container with roots, there is less space for the water to collect and ultimately when watering to run off the water may just go down the side of the container and out the bottom. Giving the illusion that the medium is completely saturated when i fact there are numerous dry spots in the medium, which isn't good in coco.
What do you guys think? To bottom feed or not to bottom feed?
Bottom feeding allows me to saturate the medium to run off then it's simply a case of keeping enough solution in the tray to satisfy the plants needs through each growth stage. Considering a large plant uses 6,8,10 litres + per day it makes sense to me to only pour into the tray as the level drops rather than guessing when to water.
Plus, the fabric pot lends itself very well to bottom feeding due to the large surface area for the nutrient rich water to be absorbed.
Another reason for switching to bottom feeding is -
As the plant fills the container with roots, there is less space for the water to collect and ultimately when watering to run off the water may just go down the side of the container and out the bottom. Giving the illusion that the medium is completely saturated when i fact there are numerous dry spots in the medium, which isn't good in coco.
What do you guys think? To bottom feed or not to bottom feed?
millertm
Well-Known Member
I'd say no on bottom feeding. Its hard to do correctly and takes a two step process to be done right so no salts are pulled back up into pot. But you can try it to see if you are able to hold more moisture in soil.
Cheers
Cheers
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- #125
I'd thought the salts could be a problem, but, quickly solved with a flush every week to 10 days.
I'm growing in coco by the way so it really messes with the pH levels of the medium when it dries out. It needs to be saturated to point of run off almost all the time, which I'm finding really hard.
Thanks bud, I will keep my thinking cap on
millertm
Well-Known Member
Coco is a different beast. Sorry I was thinking soil. I would bottom feed coco over soil.
Cheers
Cheers
Colesdad
Well-Known Member
Before I say anything, be reminded I've yet to compete a grow....
Now that my girls are bigger, I water from the top. But, I have a saucer under the pot. I use a 1 gallon jug for my 2 autos, each in 3 gallon pots. I water 1/2 gallon on each plant slowly. I let them sit for about 15 minutes in the saucers before I remove them. Each pot absorbs 90% of the water. I'm saying this, but I have no idea how it will work. My plan is to do this with both feed time and plain water time for the entire grow. When I'm at the end and start flushing I'll probably put them in the shower and run a few gallons through each one and let the run off go down the drain. That's my plan
Now that my girls are bigger, I water from the top. But, I have a saucer under the pot. I use a 1 gallon jug for my 2 autos, each in 3 gallon pots. I water 1/2 gallon on each plant slowly. I let them sit for about 15 minutes in the saucers before I remove them. Each pot absorbs 90% of the water. I'm saying this, but I have no idea how it will work. My plan is to do this with both feed time and plain water time for the entire grow. When I'm at the end and start flushing I'll probably put them in the shower and run a few gallons through each one and let the run off go down the drain. That's my plan
JohnnyBlaze
Well-Known Member
Hey Mono. You don't need to water to run off or saturate coco. Check out cultivators grows. As long as you have your ec and pH correct and flush at the right times having slightly drier coco is fine!
Colesdad
Well-Known Member
One more thing. I just posted in my current journal my soaking process with pics.
Good shatterday Mono beautiful flowers Brother
Hey That Sativa you grew up on 12/12 looked amazing (near the start) I love the feeding info for Coco
Great to see you back on your grow
Hey That Sativa you grew up on 12/12 looked amazing (near the start) I love the feeding info for Coco
Great to see you back on your grow
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- #131
Hey Mono. You don't need to water to run off or saturate coco. Check out cultivators grows. As long as you have your ec and pH correct and flush at the right times having slightly drier coco is fine!
I've followed all of cultivators grows, and although he is a fantastic grower and extremely knowledgeable his growing style is a totally different ball game from mine.
In order to pull as much harvest weight from the plants it's essential to ensure the conditions are as perfect as can be. Coco allows them to be fed 1, 2, 3 times per day (essential since coco holds no nutrients but does absorb a massive amount of salts). Keeping the medium wet and feeding often you see the same growth rates as hydro, without pumps
Letting the coco dry out is treating it more like soil, with many a headache... Growth slows, plants become deficient and loose the speed of a soil-less medium.
Any time I've let the coco get 'dry' more damp than wet, the pH levels sky rocket to almost 9.0, which locks out all manner of nutrients and creates salt build up. Then the medium needs flushed, and a whole lot of hassle to bring the pH back to 6.0.
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- #132
Thanks for that bud. It's pretty much the same way I grew my plants when I was using soil. Best of luck with your new grow
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- #133
Good shatterday Mono beautiful flowers Brother
Hey That Sativa you grew up on 12/12 looked amazing (near the start) I love the feeding info for Coco
Great to see you back on your grow
Hey Jaga, thank you for the kind words my friend.
I hope everything is going well in your world, thinks seemed to be looking up the last time I was over at your journal. Hopefully there is some stability now and I will be able to get a few grows under my belt with no issues
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- #134
Update
The flowering tent is progressing well, even the little bubas gift which was growing really slowly. I took her out just before the weekend and was amazed to find the bottom 1/3 of the coco was bone dry. Watered to run off to find the pH sitting at 8.6, a gentle flush with 1/4 strength nutrients until the run off sat stable at 6.0 and back into the tent. Since she is in a smaller pot I have been making sure she is watered with less water at a time but more regularly than the bigger plants... The growth from her over the last couple of days is amazing, might just be worth keeping her after all
NL Blue is budding up very nicely, much faster than Jack Herer which is to be expected. One thing to note is the smell coming from Jack Herer, she is some of the best smelling cannabis I have grown, super happy to have this strain in the flowering tent
The flowering tent is progressing well, even the little bubas gift which was growing really slowly. I took her out just before the weekend and was amazed to find the bottom 1/3 of the coco was bone dry. Watered to run off to find the pH sitting at 8.6, a gentle flush with 1/4 strength nutrients until the run off sat stable at 6.0 and back into the tent. Since she is in a smaller pot I have been making sure she is watered with less water at a time but more regularly than the bigger plants... The growth from her over the last couple of days is amazing, might just be worth keeping her after all
NL Blue is budding up very nicely, much faster than Jack Herer which is to be expected. One thing to note is the smell coming from Jack Herer, she is some of the best smelling cannabis I have grown, super happy to have this strain in the flowering tent
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- #135
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Mono's Monster 2.0
I decided to use a 'screen' that's self supported by the plant as a tie point to train her with. This will allow her to be transplanted again without having to remove 100's of ties before hand.
She is looking a little rough and sorry for herself at the moment, just after a heavy defol. Over the next week or so she should reach this sides of the screen where she will be allowed to put on a little bit more vertical height. The tent she is going to be flowered in is 1.2 x 1.2 so I am looking for her to be 90 cm x 90 cm minimum before switching the lights to 12/12.
Currently she is growing under the 250 watt hps, and will continue to do so until the flowering tent is cleared of plants. I'm thinking of giving her a week or so veg under the 600 watt hps in the flowering tent before changing the light schedule.
Doesn't look it at the moment, but she will fill the 1.2 x 1.2 tent in the next 4-5 weeks
I decided to use a 'screen' that's self supported by the plant as a tie point to train her with. This will allow her to be transplanted again without having to remove 100's of ties before hand.
She is looking a little rough and sorry for herself at the moment, just after a heavy defol. Over the next week or so she should reach this sides of the screen where she will be allowed to put on a little bit more vertical height. The tent she is going to be flowered in is 1.2 x 1.2 so I am looking for her to be 90 cm x 90 cm minimum before switching the lights to 12/12.
Currently she is growing under the 250 watt hps, and will continue to do so until the flowering tent is cleared of plants. I'm thinking of giving her a week or so veg under the 600 watt hps in the flowering tent before changing the light schedule.
Doesn't look it at the moment, but she will fill the 1.2 x 1.2 tent in the next 4-5 weeks
I can honestly say that I've never seen plants grow faster than this. Truly amazing.
I never really let my coco dry out. I do, however, give them a 36 hr "rest" where the medium goes from damp to moist. Then I hit them with enough water/calmag to saturate the medium again, then another 36 hrs "rest" and then resume normal daily feeding for about 3 to 4 days in a row. Rinse and repeat. Don't ask me why, it has just evolved into this and I will change it at the drop of a hat if I think it needs to change. Further along in flowering, when the plants drink/feed a lot, then I will rarely let them go longer than 24hrs without food and water.
I never really let my coco dry out. I do, however, give them a 36 hr "rest" where the medium goes from damp to moist. Then I hit them with enough water/calmag to saturate the medium again, then another 36 hrs "rest" and then resume normal daily feeding for about 3 to 4 days in a row. Rinse and repeat. Don't ask me why, it has just evolved into this and I will change it at the drop of a hat if I think it needs to change. Further along in flowering, when the plants drink/feed a lot, then I will rarely let them go longer than 24hrs without food and water.
Late to the party but here
JohnnyBlaze
Well-Known Member
I've followed all of cultivators grows, and although he is a fantastic grower and extremely knowledgeable his growing style is a totally different ball game from mine.
In order to pull as much harvest weight from the plants it's essential to ensure the conditions are as perfect as can be. Coco allows them to be fed 1, 2, 3 times per day (essential since coco holds no nutrients but does absorb a massive amount of salts). Keeping the medium wet and feeding often you see the same growth rates as hydro, without pumps
Letting the coco dry out is treating it more like soil, with many a headache... Growth slows, plants become deficient and loose the speed of a soil-less medium.
Any time I've let the coco get 'dry' more damp than wet, the pH levels sky rocket to almost 9.0, which locks out all manner of nutrients and creates salt build up. Then the medium needs flushed, and a whole lot of hassle to bring the pH back to 6.0.
Interesting... I've just completed my first coco grow and experienced none of the issues you mentioned. I'd be interested in seeing a side by side of both methods. Mebbe I'll try it later this year. I was lead to believe that drying out was necessary to help the roots take in more oxygen which is what makes coco so similar to hydro. I completely understand your line of thinking too. Defs requires some research!
Things are looking awesome! Your flower tent is mighty full.
Aye, I'm a little sceptical about letting rockwool dry out a bit too....rather than keep the substrate at 80% water, 15% air and 5% rockwool Cultivator tells me I have some control over the water and air percentages to see if I can find something that works better than keeping them wet all the time. The rockwool site suggests optimum growth rates might be found by manipulating the water and air percentages so it may be worth checking what the coco sites say too.
As for coco growth rates keeping up with hydro....I'm not convinced. I've seen bigger autos in hydro than in coco thanks to faster growth rates....I reckon my Dark Devil Auto just peaked at close to 4 inches a day during stretch!
High growth rates isn't all good news though as it makes it difficult to get decent yields off Sativas that might want a longer, slower veg before they are worth flowering. Haze strains seem particularly low yielders in my hydro setup and I could do better with soil and more time.
As for coco growth rates keeping up with hydro....I'm not convinced. I've seen bigger autos in hydro than in coco thanks to faster growth rates....I reckon my Dark Devil Auto just peaked at close to 4 inches a day during stretch!
High growth rates isn't all good news though as it makes it difficult to get decent yields off Sativas that might want a longer, slower veg before they are worth flowering. Haze strains seem particularly low yielders in my hydro setup and I could do better with soil and more time.
