InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

[InTheShed]

Not helpful at all!

 

[StoneOtter]

Hi Shed, your DDA harvest looked spogtastic! How they drying? Man I got to Shed up next time I do some trimming. I have a hard time though. I'm going to have a try at it again for the post stretch cleanup in 6 days. Wish me luck! Happy growing!

 

[InTheShed]

Thanks otter! The RH has been all over the place with the heat wave during the day and the marine layer at night, so I'm just keeping the fan on low with only one hole open on top and I'll see if I keep them hanging another day or two before I jar them. I'll need the box for the Carnival anyway .

 

[MrSauga]

I was all over town today looking for fertilizer. Not much luck alot of them they don't list the type of nitrogen. When they do its azole have you heard of that shed?

It may not list it but as long as you go with something from the chart below that has the (a) beside the numbers in the last column you have a fert that runs on the acidic side. So knowing the ratio of N types isn't really needed. Shed went with a 20-10-20 and he was hoping to get a 20-15-20. You could use a 21-5-20 as an example but the potential acidity is lower so it will take longer for the pH to change.

 

[multiVortex]

That's the search mV! I'm open to all suggestions.

I’m about to evaporate the moisture out of a good morning whiz. Maybe that will work.


Jack’s is on my list, so is looking at the GH stuff. Most things are going to be ridiculous for a hobby grower though. I know True Plant Science is a one-part deal (one each for veg, one for bloom, not one period), and their stuff that I have used so far has been solid. It's liquid though.

GH has the maxi line that is a dry nute (one for veg, one for bloom), but no idea on it. Trio was cheaper though. (Of course this is for my setups, and mixing 100gal/week in feed water during peak for me.)

I see the better results from running it in promix or dirt, but also see some in that realm with issues too.

Haven’t yet seen a hydro run with it that was absolutely issue free.

 

[InTheShed]

Shed went with a 20-15-20 and he was hoping to get a 20-20-20.

I went with a 20-10-20, and I think that 20-20-20 was not as highly recommended to me by PremierTech. I'll get into that conversation later!

I’m about to evaporate the moisture out of a good morning whiz. Maybe that will work.

As long as it's 1680a, it should work fine and be cheaper to ship .

 

[MrSauga]

I went with a 20-10-20, and I think that 20-20-20 was not as highly recommended to me by PremierTech. I'll get into that conversation later!

Oops, my bad. I think I knew that but the numbers typed didn't represent it. Thanks.

 

[Amy Gardner]

@Amy Gardner - Hi Amy. Could you please clarify Shed's statement above?

Was just something covered in passing in the cultivation section of the Green Flower course I did - either Mel Frank or Kevin Jodrey mentioned it, and I feel comfortable taking their word; that outdoor growers needn't worry too much about amber showing early as the action of the sun degrades THC, so outdoors amber is not necessarily a sign of the ripening.

We know that light degrades THC after harvest, so it’s not surprising that the sun can exert some ’action’ on a trichome outdoors.

I have no reference for it and can’t say for sure that. Its UV but what VG says is true so it makes sense that it’s a UV thing.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Was just something covered in passing in the cultivation section of the Green Flower course I did - either Mel Frank or Kevin Jodrey mentioned it, and I feel comfortable taking their word; that outdoor growers needn't worry too much about amber showing early as the action of the sun degrades THC, so outdoors amber is not necessarily a sign of the ripening.

We know that light degrades THC after harvest, so it’s not surprising that the sun can exert some ’action’ on a trichome outdoors.

I have no reference for it and can’t say for sure that. Its UV but what VG says is true so it makes sense that it’s a UV thing.

Edit: that’s not to say that it doesn’t matter at all! Outdoors there are different factors to consider, is all - also physical damage can make trichome heads degrade and turn amber Lots of elements in play!

 

[InTheShed]

outdoor growers needn't worry too much about amber showing early as the action of the sun degrades THC, so outdoors amber is not necessarily a sign of the ripening.

Which is why you tell me to wait a week, except this time!

Outdoors there are different factors to consider, is all - also physical damage can make trichome heads degrade and turn amber

You mean like scraping them on the Oval of Brightness® as I take them out in the mornings and put them away at night?

 

[Heavenly Hybrid]

Congrats on the upcoming harvest Sheddio. I was gonna ask a question, but then it got answered, then I was gonna make a joke, but you beat me to it. This is why I can’t fall behind here.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Which is why you tell me to wait a week, except this time!

well I though it looked fairly ‘spent’ in general as well as all the amber... and there was a lot!...and then Gray said his thing and made me think again actually ...

like i say.. many factors .... including the mood of the gard’ner

You mean like scraping them on the Oval of Brightness® as I take them out in the mornings and put them away at night?

Yes! ... for me it’s usually an ill-advised ‘lean-over-to-the-back-of-the-tent’ move

 

[BeezLuiz]

Outdoors there are different factors to consider, is all - also physical damage can make trichome heads degrade and turn amber Lots of elements in play!

Great. Now I'll never know when to harvest...

 

[InTheShed]

Congrats on the upcoming harvest Sheddio. I was gonna ask a question, but then it got answered, then I was gonna make a joke, but you beat me to it. This is why I can’t fall behind here

Thanks double H! I'm sure your version of the joke was funnier . I'm glad your question got answered.

and then Gray said his thing and made me think again actually

I did double check, and other than a few new pistils coming out of the top, nothing is happening in terms of new trichomes, so down it comes.

‘lean-over-to-the-back-of-the-tent’ move

Har...amateur hour compared to my moves!

Great. Now I'll never know when to harvest...

When you can get the most people to help?

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I watered the flowering three with my last calculation from yesterday, which was 1.7g Orchid Food, 2g MC, and 4ml Armor Si per gallon. I'll run a slurry test on the Carnival after I harvest (and the rootball dries out a bit), but it's hard to find any loose ProMix on any of them, and I keep tearing up roots to get enough for a sample. I'll run the summer two slurries next week and just figure they didn't need those roots anyway .

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As I've been promising, I want to give you a summary of my conversation with my rep at PremierTech, the manufacture of ProMix, who has a lot deeper understanding of agronomy than the folks at Greenleaf Nutrients, makers of MegaCrop. Some of this you may have heard before but in case someone is getting here late, I'll start at the top.

Back in May I had asked him about the ProMix HP I had purchased. The bag says it's best used within a year of the manufacture date, and my bags were at least 4 months beyond that. Here is some of his reply:
"[The] product can change with age. Because the peat moss used in making the product has some naturally occurring bacteria and fungi (not harmful), these microorganisms can biodegrade some ingredients over time. The product does not go bad, but it is different from when it is manufactured. Some of the changes that can occur with time include nitrogen drawdown, biodegradation of the wetting agent and elevation of pH. These changes are conditional depending on product storage over time. The warmer the storage temperature the more likely changes will occur.

If you have product that is dated, pH and nitrogen can be adjusted with one application of a water soluble fertilizer at 100 ppm of 'N' at planting. This is generally all that is needed to adjust the product."

As I mentioned here, I didn't do that and used it straight out of the bag. About a month ago, I began to see deficiencies in the Carnival that weren't getting fixed with changes to the feeding regimen. Then I discovered some more issues with the Power Plant, and at MrSauga's suggestion, ran a slurry test on all three. All three had drifted 1-1½ points above factory specs for ProMix (which is ~5.8). So I wrote him back, asking for rescue suggestions. He said:
"I would recommend applying some Peters Professional or Jack's 20-10-20 general purpose fertilizer at 100 to 150 ppms of Nitrogen at each watering for about a week. This fertilizer has nitrate and ammoniacal forms of nitrogen, but also includes P,K and micronutrients. Since this is a fertilizer with potential acidity around 400 lbs. CaCo3 equivalent, a few applications will result in a drop of growing medium pH as the plant interacts with uptake of these nutrients. Should take about 7-10 days for the pH to be in a desirable range around 5.8. Water with the fertilizer until it runs through the bottom of your cloth pots."

We did some back and forth (he's really helpful!) about possible replacements for those two, since they come in 25lb bags, and he even calculated the application rates for what I should use. Once we had settled that, I moved the conversation to the cause of the issue and the role of lime in all of this. Here are some of the important points he made (with some condensing and paraphrasing):

• Buffering capacity of growing medium is the ability to resist changes in pH. Limestone is reactive, therefore is offers the most buffering.

• For nitrate fertilizer: If you are planting small plants, it will take time for plants to react (small plants have a small root mass, so less surface area to react with the fertilizer). Plus, if these are small plants, you're using a lower rate of fertilizer to react. Also it takes time for plants to acclimate to a new rooting zone once they are transplanted. So I would estimate two-three weeks before pH would start to climb. The only way to counteract that is to use a fertilizer that is more ammoniacal nitrogen than nitrate.

• When correcting the pH with fertilizer, how quickly the pH will change back depends on what rates you are applying the fertilizer, the size of the plant and root system (more roots, more nutrient uptake), the amount of light for the plant (more light = more respiration and transpiration = more nutrient uptake = more pH change). If you are applying fertilizer at a medium rate, applying at each watering and there are long days with sunlight (or artificial light) and the plants are sizeable, pH will move within 7-10 days. It would be best to check the growing medium pH every 3 days to monitor to see how this happens.

• When using a fertilizer that is heavily one type of nitrogen over another (like MC), that fertilizer - depending on its formulation - has a strong effect that cannot be kept in check for long with the incorporated lime. That why it is so important to understand what they do and how they work. If you contact a fertilizer company and they cannot or will not answer your questions, find another fertilizer company.



I hope that's helpful to someone! I am waiting to hear back from Greenleaf Nutrients with their thoughts on the high nitrate form of nitrogen in their formulation. Maybe it's just cheaper, since they weren't aware of the pH change it can cause.

 

[oldsmokey]

Thanks Shed very informative the rep sounds very knowledgeable. Have you rechecked your pH yet?

 

[BeezLuiz]

When you can get the most people to help?

A very important consideration, indeed!

 

[InTheShed]

Thanks Shed very informative the rep sounds very knowledgeable. Have you rechecked your pH yet?

Not yet. I'll do it next week.

 

[syenite]

Nice Shed, thanks for all the great documentation! Great that you spoke to the company directly. They should be grateful for your feedback, too!

 

[BigD13]

Trying to do a little catching up. Good info Shed.

So if your Pro-Mix had been not been expired or you had “adjusted it” per the PremierTech guys instructions, do you think you would still have had problems?

 

[InTheShed]

Nice Shed, thanks for all the great documentation! Great that you spoke to the company directly. They should be grateful for your feedback, too!

He's been a great resource for quite a while now! I keep replying to the same email chain which scrolls on forever .

Trying to do a little catching up. Good info Shed.

So if your Pro-Mix had been not been expired or you had “adjusted it” per the PremierTech guys instructions, do you think you would still have had problems?

Thanks Big D! I'm guessing it would have gained me a few extra weeks at least. This experience makes me wonder if the leaf drop I get at the end of my grows (which as you know tend to go long) are all a result of upward pH drift.