InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

[Wastei]

Okay while we continue to wait for pollen , here is a Tuesday update on the potassium bicarbonate for powdery mildew tests I've been running for the last few weeks. And let me preface it by saying I have not been using distilled water, so I may re-run this all again once I get a new bottle.

My first search was to find what the industry standard dilution was (and farmers don't use distilled water when they spray their fields), and I came across a product called Armicarb which is potassium bicarbonate, and it's dilution rate is listed at 2.5 to 5 lbs. per 100 gallons.

Here's the math on that:
2.5lbs/100 gallons = 1lb/40 gallons = 0.025lbs/gallon = 11.34g/3.8L = 0.3% solution. Feel free to check my math!

So I mixed up a .3% and a .6% solution and tested it on some branches of the old Candida mother that I've been intentionally growing PM on. Neither had any effect.

I did additional sprays at .6% and here are the results of that latest test:

20240416_090412 CD-1 PM after 6% pot.bicarb spray.jpg

• InTheShed
• Apr 16, 2024

Candida sprayed with 6% potassium bicarbonate

20240416_090430 CD-1 PM after 6% pot.bicarb spray.jpg

• InTheShed
• Apr 16, 2024

Candida sprayed with 6% potassium bicarbonate

So, plenty of PM, not to mention some leaf damage:

20240416_090513 CD-1 PM after 6% pot.bicarb spray.jpg

• InTheShed
• Apr 16, 2024

Candida sprayed with 6% potassium bicarbonate

20240416_090538 CD-1 PM after 6% pot.bicarb spray.jpg

• InTheShed
• Apr 16, 2024

Candida sprayed with 6% potassium bicarbonate

Besides the edge curling and burning, the leaves have a dull quality to them that makes the plant look unhealthy. I've decided that potassium bicarbonate (with tap water) is not the answer to my PM issue so I sprayed that plant with neem oil this morning. I may give it another try with 6% in distilled just to confirm, and I'll update you on that if I do.

Thanks for your interest!


Quotes:

Thanks Caddie, and nice to see you around!

Good question con. And congrats on post #35,000!


Thanks Absorber, you made it to the top of the page!

Have you tried this mix?

3 tsp potassium bicarbonate
3 tsp Neem or vegetable oil (Neem being more effective but both works well)
0.5 tsp soap/dish soap

Per gallon of water.

Cheers!

 

[smokesbetter]

Buy seed with more resistance to PM i know you tried alot of different things over the years .

 

[KeithLemon]

That is one I do not remember seeing I will have to write it down.

 

[InTheShed]

Still no pollen so both plants are outside again, and in the meantime...


Quotes:

You made me curious, so I weighed a tablespoon of pb, and it's 16.9g. Or my scale needs to be calibrated.
Either way, if it didn't work for you I doubt minute adjustments will change anything, including the leaf damage.
I guess your search for a cure continues.

Thanks Mel, and between the two of us maybe we'll hit on it soon!

the chunky kind or the smooth kind?

LOL smooth please, though I did go through a period of buying chunky in my 30s for some reason.

In the Spirit of Medicine Science, I was really hoping you would try it!

I have MedSci! Maybe not that exact mix (I think I tried 50/50 and straight skim milk) but I just ended up with white leaves that masked the PM that remained.

If there is magic in 1 part milk and 9 parts water it's certainly easy enough to make up though! Does it have to be whole milk? That would mean buying different milk from the skim we normally drink. Is it that fat content that does it?

Interesting, I am fortunate to not have Powdery Mildew pressure here in South Texas. Now I don't grow outside due to the fact I live in South Texas, LOL.
Now nit saying you can't get PW in an indoor grow, buddy lost his entire grow to PW a few grow ago.
The grow tent has perfect conditions for PW growth, warm light on period, 70 to 85 degrees and cool nights 65 to 75 degrees.
PW does not need moisture present to cause issues.
Anyway, Shed,, love what your doing.

I've never had PM as bad as I did in the tent this winter so you're right by my account. I think the high leaf temps I get outside (from the radiant heat) have a controlling effect on it. Which is not to say I don't get some anyway, but not so that it eats the plant alive.

Nice to have you stop by again gr8!

Have you tried this mix?
3 tsp potassium bicarbonate
3 tsp Neem or vegetable oil (Neem being more effective but both works well)
0.5 tsp soap/dish soap
Per gallon of water.

Thanks Wastei, but based on your mix I'm guessing you haven't read much of what's been posted here.

To recap:
1. no neem in flower and preferably no oil at all.
2. neem works on its own in veg without potassium bicarbonate.
3. I use yucca powder as a surfactant.
4. 3tsp of potassium bicarbonate = 1Tbs which is 32.09g into 3.8L (1 gallon) gives you a 0.8% solution. That's a 33% increase over the dilution that already caused damage to the leaves.

Appreciate the recipe but I'm going to pass on that one.

Buy seed with more resistance to PM i know you tried alot of different things over the years .

That would be an excellent idea if I were choosing genetics to purchase online, but nothing I grow has been specifically selected by me...they're all seeds I've won or received from others over the years.

That is one I do not remember seeing I will have to write it down.

I'm passing on that recipe but you should do what you feel good about!

 

[Wastei]

Still no pollen so both plants are outside again, and in the meantime...


Quotes:

Thanks Mel, and between the two of us maybe we'll hit on it soon!

LOL smooth please, though I did go through a period of buying chunky in my 30s for some reason.

I have MedSci! Maybe not that exact mix (I think I tried 50/50 and straight skim milk) but I just ended up with white leaves that masked the PM that remained.

If there is magic in 1 part milk and 9 parts water it's certainly easy enough to make up though! Does it have to be whole milk? That would mean buying different milk from the skim we normally drink. Is it that fat content that does it?



I've never had PM as bad as I did in the tent this winter so you're right by my account. I think the high leaf temps I get outside (from the radiant heat) have a controlling effect on it. Which is not to say I don't get some anyway, but not so that it eats the plant alive.

Nice to have you stop by again gr8!

Thanks Wastei, but based on your mix I'm guessing you haven't read much of what's been posted here.

To recap:
1. no neem in flower and preferably no oil at all.
2. neem works on it's own in veg without potassium bicarbonate.
3. I use yucca powder as a surfactant.
4. 3tsp of potassium bicarbonate = 1Tbs which is 32.09g into 3.8L (1 gallon) gives you a 0.8% solution. That's a 33% increase over the dilution that already caused damage to the leaves.

Appreciate the recipe but I'm going to pass on that one.

That would be an excellent idea if I were choosing genetics to purchase online, but nothing I grow has been selected by me...they're all seeds I've won or received from others over the years.

I'm passing on that recipe but you should do what you feel good about!

Yeah that's a strong mix I use for tomatoes and I haven't personally touched Neem for years. Neem by itself is bad news for the plant and should only be used in veg as a preventative if needed. Every climate and environment is different and require different measures. There's different products, source materials and manufacturers with different purities and outcomes.

When spraying foliar you should always test on smaller patches. Potassium bicarbonate with soap should be sufficient enough for combating PM, that's been well documented. I think you maybe haven't gotten the concentration right?

I saw you searching for references and dosages on commercial products and I gave you one that's stronger that what you currently use, maybe there's a middle ground you haven't found yet?

 

[InTheShed]

I haven't personally touched Neem for years. Neem by itself is bad news for the plant and should only be used in veg as a preventative if needed.

I use neem all the time in veg and have never found any negative effects.

When spraying foliar you should always test on smaller patches. Potassium bicarbonate with soap should be sufficient enough for combating PM, that's been well documented. I think you maybe haven't got the concentration right? I saw you searching for references and dosages on commercial products and I gave you one that's stronger that what you currently use, maybe there's a middle ground you haven't found yet?

I've been using one plant for testing that I was going to cull, and for a while tested different branches at different strengths. Finally did the whole plant at 0.6% with yucca powder and got both PM and leaf damage, so I'm not sure where the middle ground there would be. Castile soap instead of yucca powder would be the only change other than using distilled water next time.

 

[MedScientist]

Still no pollen so both plants are outside again, and in the meantime...


Quotes:

Thanks Mel, and between the two of us maybe we'll hit on it soon!

LOL smooth please, though I did go through a period of buying chunky in my 30s for some reason.

I have MedSci! Maybe not that exact mix (I think I tried 50/50 and straight skim milk) but I just ended up with white leaves that masked the PM that remained.

If there is magic in 1 part milk and 9 parts water it's certainly easy enough to make up though! Does it have to be whole milk? That would mean buying different milk from the skim we normally drink. Is it that fat content that does it?



I've never had PM as bad as I did in the tent this winter so you're right by my account. I think the high leaf temps I get outside (from the radiant heat) have a controlling effect on it. Which is not to say I don't get some anyway, but not so that it eats the plant alive.

Nice to have you stop by again gr8!

Thanks Wastei, but based on your mix I'm guessing you haven't read much of what's been posted here.

To recap:
1. no neem in flower and preferably no oil at all.
2. neem works on it's own in veg without potassium bicarbonate.
3. I use yucca powder as a surfactant.
4. 3tsp of potassium bicarbonate = 1Tbs which is 32.09g into 3.8L (1 gallon) gives you a 0.8% solution. That's a 33% increase over the dilution that already caused damage to the leaves.

Appreciate the recipe but I'm going to pass on that one.

That would be an excellent idea if I were choosing genetics to purchase online, but nothing I grow has been selected by me...they're all seeds I've won or received from others over the years.

I'm passing on that recipe but you should do what you feel good about!

I read several articles on the subject recently and saw alot of various versions of the process. But...

What has been working for me and friends has been 1 part Whole Milk to 9 parts Tap water. Spraying both sides of the leaves.

I would to see it work WELL for you too, because it is cheap, easily available, and I would think Organic?

 

[InTheShed]

I read several articles on the subject recently and saw alot of various versions of the process. But...
What has been working for me and friends has been 1 part Whole Milk to 9 parts Tap water. Spraying both sides of the leaves.
I would to see it work WELL for you too, because it is cheap, easily available, and I would think Organic?

I'll grab one of those little kindergarten lunchroom size whole milk containers and give it a go once I regrow a crop of PM on the old Candida mother, and mix up some canola oil spray too for shits and giggles.

 

[CaptainLucky]

I use neem all the time in veg and have never found any negative effects.

I've been using one plant for testing that I was going to cull, and for a while tested different branches at different strengths. Finally did the whole plant at 0.6% with yucca powder and got both PM and leaf damage, so I'm not sure where the middle ground there would be. Castile soap instead of yucca powder would be the only change other than using distilled water next time.

I know I told you this before but for everyone else @Danishoes21 was having a lot of success using a Jadam treatment with White Willow as the main ingredient. CL

 

[Wastei]

I use neem all the time in veg and have never found any negative effects.

I've been using one plant for testing that I was going to cull, and for a while tested different branches at different strengths. Finally did the whole plant at 0.6% with yucca powder and got both PM and leaf damage, so I'm not sure where the middle ground there would be. Castile soap instead of yucca powder would be the only change other than using distilled water next time.

Yeah I believe Yucca is not very effective for your intended purpose. Natural saponins are not very effective as surfactants but do other good things for the plant.

People also use Epsom salt in foliar sprays since it contains sulfur and sulfur is the main mineral to combat fungal diseases and PM.

 

[KeithLemon]

Yeah I believe Yucca is not very effective for your intended purpose. Natural saponins are not very effective as surfactants but do other good things for the plant.

People also use Epsom salt in foliar sprays since it contains sulfur and sulfur is the main mineral to combat fungal diseases and PM.

Do you know the mix for Epsom salt.

 

[InTheShed]

I know I told you this before but for everyone else @Danishoes21 was having a lot of success using a Jadam treatment with White Willow as the main ingredient. CL

Thanks Captain! He may or may not have sent me a bunch of random auto seeds and a mysterious note, but he definitely never sent me any White Willow. I'd love to see someone with access to White Willow run a test similar to mine!

Yeah I believe Yucca is not very effective for your intended purpose. Natural saponins are not very effective as surfactants but do other good things for the plant.

It seems to work well as a surfactant to keep the water from rolling off the leaves, and the fact that there was leaf damage from the spray seems to indicate it was on there long enough to damage them.

People also use Epsom salt in foliar sprays since it contains sulfur and sulfur is the main mineral to combat fungal diseases and PM.

Do you know the mix for Epsom salt.

I haven't tried epsom salt for PM, but I just looked it up and found someone recommending 2 grams of epsom salt to 1 liter of water. I've also found a lot of places that say there's not enough sulfur in it to make a difference to PM, but there's a lot of everything on the internet!

 

[Carcass]

1 part Whole Milk to 9 parts Tap water.

I used the milk mix on a couple cbd plants that pm just loved- It worked great to kill it, but didn't seem to do much in the way of prevention- I had to spray every day to keep it in check...and that gets to be a pain in the butt after 3 or 4 weeks.
But it did work...

 

[Wastei]

Thanks Captain! He may or may not have sent me a bunch of random auto seeds and a mysterious note, but he definitely never sent me any White Willow. I'd love to see someone with access to White Willow run a test similar to mine!

It seems to work well as a surfactant to keep the water from rolling off the leaves, and the fact that there was leaf damage from the spray seems to indicate it was on there long enough to damage them.


I haven't tried epsom salt for PM, but I just looked it up and found someone recommending 2 grams of epsom salt to 1 liter of water. I've also found a lot of places that say there's not enough sulfur in it to make a difference to PM, but there's a lot of everything on the internet!

Epsom salt makes a lot different foliars more effective. I don't know the reason for this and they didn't have a good explanation to why it was more effective in the paper I read. I think the article was for Triacontanol.

Same goes with foliar of potassium sulfate in early flower. It does more than just supplementing K and Sulfur in terms of plant response. Most is unknown territory and that's what's interesting about this hobby.

 

[CaptainLucky]

He told me on another grower’s site that he didn’t send you anything. He also sounded like he wasn’t very fond of you. But I don’t know why and didn’t ask him about it. But as far as the Willow recipe I think Azi has it too. CL

 

[InTheShed]

I used the milk mix on a couple cbd plants that pm just loved- It worked great to kill it, but didn't seem to do much in the way of prevention- I had to spray every day to keep it in check...and that gets to be a pain in the butt after 3 or 4 weeks.
But it did work...

Thanks Carcass! Did you use 1:9 and whole milk too?

Epsom salt makes a lot different foliars more effective. I don't know the reason for this and they didn't have a good explanation to why it was more effective in the paper I read. I think the article was for Triacontanol.
Same goes with foliar of potassium sulfate in early flower. It does more than just supplementing K and Sulfur in terms of plant response. Most is unknown territory and that's what's interesting about this hobby.

I don't do any foliar spraying for anything but trouble as I like the plant to get the nutes through the roots.

If you can find a link to the article drop it here!

He told me on another grower’s site that he didn’t send you anything. He also sounded like he wasn’t very fond of you. But I don’t know why and didn’t ask him about it.

He wasn't fond of me back in your thread for some reason and later considered me competition in the seed selling business (which I'm not in obviously). But if you were going to get seeds to someone and didn't want anyone to know where they came from, denying it would be the obvious choice.

I have a number of reasons to think it was him but no reason to go into them here. He's gone.

But as far as the Willow recipe I think Azi has it too. CL

Thanks Captain! I don't have access to any White Willow here but I have tried aspirin in an attempt to mimic the effect of Willow (salicylic vs acetylsalicylic acid) to no avail. Seems like White Willow is key from this:
"The bark of white willow contains salicin..."

Willow bark Information | Mount Sinai - New York

Learn about Willow bark or find a doctor at Mount Sinai Health System.

www.mountsinai.org

 

[Carcass]

Did you use 1:9 and whole milk too?

Yes, I used the 3.5% stuff, but I don't recall the exact ratio ...I think it was 10:1- I do remember it was a weak mix.

 

[con]

Thanks Carcass! Did you use 1:9 and whole milk too?

I don't do any foliar spraying for anything but trouble as I like the plant to get the nutes through the roots.

If you can find a link to the article drop it here!

He wasn't fond of me back in your thread for some reason and later considered me competition in the seed selling business (which I'm not in obviously). But if you were going to get seeds to someone and didn't want anyone to know where they came from, denying it would be the obvious choice.

I have a number of reasons to think it was him but no reason to go into them here. He's gone.

Thanks Captain! I don't have access to any White Willow here but I have tried aspirin in an attempt to mimic the effect of Willow (salicylic vs acetylsalicylic acid) to no avail. Seems like White Willow is key from this:
"The bark of white willow contains salicin..."

https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/herb/willow-bark[/URL

i don't think it was actual white willow as its not native to north america its probably peach leaf willow native to north America Mexico all the way up here & its bark has salicylates such as acetylsalic acid or otherwise known as asprin

 

[InTheShed]

Yes, I used the 3.5% stuff, but I don't recall the exact ratio ...I think it was 10:1- I do remember it was a weak mix.

Thanks! I don't think they sell 3.5% milk here, just regular, 2%, and skim. Either way, I'll try the regular and see what happens.

i don't think it was actual white willow as its not native to north america its probably peach leaf willow native to north America PEACHLEAF WILLOW Salix amygdaloides Anderss. Cree: Nipisihatik Ojibwe: Adoopiiwaatig FORM A large deciduous shrub to small tree with somewhat drooping branches. BARK Smooth, becoming ridged and more or less scaly, reddish-brown. TWIGS Alternate, fexible, yellowish becoming darker, shiny. Lenticels few, mostly small and brown but some are larger, linear, yellowish. Buds small, dark, shiny, brown with tan base, largest along middle of twig, about 2–4 mm long, with only one scale, somewhat lop-sided. Leaf scars very small, inconspicuous, with three bundle scars. LEAVES Alternate, simple, lanceshaped, 5–14 cm long and 2–5 mm wide, narrowed or rounded at base, narrowly tapered at tip, fnely toothed, stem slender, green above, whitish below. FLOWERS Before leaves, in catkins. FRUIT A capsule in catkins on short, leafy branches. OCCURRENCE Along stream beds in southern part of Manitoba; not common. NOTES Willow bark contains many salicylates, such as acetylsalicylic acid, more commonly known as aspi

Well the link doesn't work if you click on it but it looks readable when it's quoted. From what I can find it's definitely in North America...

Salix alba (Huntingdon Willow, Swallow-tailed Willow, White Willow) | North Carolina Extension Gardener Plant Toolbox

...but in Los Angeles it seems we plant Weeping Willows, which is a cross. No idea what the difference is but without easy access to either I can't see going down that road. Who knows if that Shoes guy even knew what he was talking about!

 

[con]

i don't think it was actual white willow as its not native to north america its probably peach leaf willow native to north America Mexico all the way up here & its bark has salicylates such as acetylsalic acid or otherwise known as asprin

my link didn't work so edited