Need help with defoliation

[Beginner86]

how often and when i should defoliation there? switch to flower week 2 by 8-9 flower weeks?

 

[zigzagman1960]

Never
no try week 6 by 10 to 12 flower weeks

 

[Beginner86]

I don't quite know, they are almost all clowns except 4 rear ones that were mother plants. (runtz‘n Muffin barney‘s, Super silver haze amsterdam genetics and O.G. Kush Zamnesia ) they are from Sunday in the 3 flowering week. according to the manufacturer every 63 days bloom. hence the question. is illuminated with the tsl2000 + UV & IR stripes from Mars Hydro

 

[Skunksta]

Would not mess if you did not have to.
But your kinda crowded in there so might help.
Heavy never passed 3rd week me.
But will take when ever i feel the need but not so heavy handed as said after week 3.
More a tuck and a pluck

 

[Phytoplankton]

Not a big fan of defoliation, it's a personal choice, but I don't see the advantage of removing the solar panels that drive the plant. I will tuck leaves and stategically pluck a few leaves when stretch starts, to reveal more bud sites, but wholesale defol, for the sake of defol, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I like to leave the big older fan leaves as long as they look healthy. The way I look at it if a deficiency or lockout occurs the plant can draw necessary resources from those fan leaves before cannabilizing the buds.

 

[Sativa1970]

Up to when I start flower;
Branches and buds don't grow as much in the shade. So if a fan leaf is covering another bud and can not be tucked it should go. Any leaves in the center of the plant will block air flow and are not getting any productive light. They are using more energy than they are producing.

Before harvest;
Young leaves produce more food and old leaves store more food. The day before harvest I pluck all the fan leaves and top up res with PH water so I am at around 25% strength nute. The plant breaks down the chlorophyll and pulls food store from from sugar leaves in a last ditch effort to save the buds. Less chlorophyll so smoother and more terpenes better flavor.

 

[cbdhemp808]

All branches, no matter how large, will have flowers at the tips/ends of the branch. For small or very small branches, this may be just a bud or 2, or a small bud cluster. For the stem and large branches, you'll have full-on colas.

When your plants get bigger, as you are transitioning to flower, you can prune out small internal branches that a) won't get enough light, and b) really won't create a substantial cola. That way the plants can transfer more energy to the major bud sites, and you'll have better air flow through the plants.

happy growing!

 

[Sativa1970]

I spend more time on a plant harvesting than I had on the entire grow. Every minute you spend properly pruning will save you 5 minutes at harvest. It's hard at first, to sacrifice all those popcorn bud branches and sights. Feels like you are throwing away progress. 50 good thumb size buds is easier to harvest and heavier than 100 larfy, pinky size, popcorn buds.

I have to intentionally keep one lower branch to make popcorn. Wife loves those "cute" little buds that fit perfectly in her cute little mini huka. Adult version of tea party. She snatches them out when trimming like kid going through Halloween candy. You know the saying; Mamas happy, every ones happy.

 

[Chrondocious]

Do a heavy defol around week 3 and week 7. Day 21 and 49....strain depending.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I spend more time on a plant harvesting than I had on the entire grow. Every minute you spend properly pruning will save you 5 minutes at harvest. It's hard at first, to sacrifice all those popcorn bud branches and sights. Feels like you are throwing away progress. 50 good thumb size buds is easier to harvest and heavier than 100 larfy, pinky size, popcorn buds.

I have to intentionally keep one lower branch to make popcorn. Wife loves those "cute" little buds that fit perfectly in her cute little mini huka. Adult version of tea party. She snatches them out when trimming like kid going through Halloween candy. You know the saying; Mamas happy, every ones happy.

Good advice!

When I trim, I am working with bud clusters, big buds, small and large popcorn, and sub-popcorn. Below that, what I call fairy buds, which are just a tiny little flower. Lately I am only saving the big stuff, not so much the small popcorn, sub-popcorn, and fairy buds.

 

[bluter]

proper training and defol can definitely reduce the trimming pita, can result in a better more potent plant, and will increase yield if managed proper.

defol on it's own will do none of those things. it needs to be coupled with a training technique to make it happen. it's about canopy management and maximizing the potential of the available light. to be done correct it needs to be taken on in veg, well before flower sets.

when left on their own, defol alone accomplishes little. it will reduce the trimming pita, but without any other approach it will not equal the yield a plant can do on it's own.

 

[Chrondocious]

proper training and defol can definitely reduce the trimming pita, can result in a better more potent plant, and will increase yield if managed proper.

defol on it's own will do none of those things. it needs to be coupled with a training technique to make it happen. it's about canopy management and maximizing the potential of the available light. to be done correct it needs to be taken on in veg, well before flower sets.

when left on their own, defol alone accomplishes little. it will reduce the trimming pita, but without any other approach it will not equal the yield a plant can do on it's own.

I disagree. Defoliation will improve overall yield. Lets the light down into the canopy to the lower flowers, effectively allowing them to bulk. Commercial grows use it religiously. I defoliate some throughout the entire plants lifecycle. Just a very low stress training. That coupled with training is how you maximize your canopy space.

 

[bluter]

I disagree. Defoliation will improve overall yield. Lets the light down into the canopy to the lower flowers, effectively allowing them to bulk.

the buds don't use light. only the leaves have the ability to process light for the plant. removing the leaves effectively takes the ability away from the plant to produce the buds. that's covered at length both here and elsewhere.

removing leaves does not build buds. proper canopy management does.

Commercial grows use it religiously.

very sparingly or not at all. most commercial grows do not do much defol as it is labour intensive, and therefore costly. they are more about turn around time. things might be different in the states, commercial grow ops are very large and highly automated in canada. i worked with a few on lighting nearby.

most commercial harvesting and trimming is highly automated now, the defol process simply eats too much from the bottom line.

I defoliate some throughout the entire plants lifecycle. Just a very low stress training. That coupled with training is how you maximize your canopy space.

i use both defol and training throughout. defol alone can't achieve an increase in yield without canopy management, ie : training.

 

[Chrondocious]

the buds don't use light. only the leaves have the ability to process light for the plant. removing the leaves effectively takes the ability away from the plant to produce the buds. that's covered at length both here and elsewhere.

removing leaves does not build buds. proper canopy management does.






very sparingly or not at all. most commercial grows do not do much defol as it is labour intensive, and therefore costly. they are more about turn around time. things might be different in the states, commercial grow ops are very large and highly automated in canada. i worked with a few on lighting nearby.

most commercial harvesting and trimming is highly automated now, the defol process simply eats too much from the bottom line.





i use both defol and training throughout. defol alone can't achieve an increase in yield without canopy management, ie : training.

Then why when I defoliate, my lower buds bulk up? True, training is necessary, but I see alot pf over trained plants, woth 6 inches of buds sticking above a screen. These lights penetrate 12" plus. Old leaves store sugars....young leaves supply the buds. As long as your plants have what they need in the rizosphere....those extra leaves are unnecessary, and block the light that the lower buds/sugar leaves can process into whatever. Idk....it qorks for me so Im gonna keep doing it. When I don't, my yield suffers greatly.

 

[bluter]

Then why when I defoliate, my lower buds bulk up? True, training is necessary, but I see alot pf over trained plants, woth 6 inches of buds sticking above a screen. These lights penetrate 12" plus. Old leaves store sugars....young leaves supply the buds. As long as your plants have what they need in the rizosphere....those extra leaves are unnecessary, and block the light that the lower buds/sugar leaves can process into whatever. Idk....it qorks for me so Im gonna keep doing it. When I don't, my yield suffers greatly.

i pretty much lollipop the bottom third. my plants finish out by 3ft and only the top 2/3s produce. i'll take some of the interior but not too much. then do a final small defol sometime in the 2 - 3 wk flower window and that's it.

i had been quadding but went to a cage grow because lazy lol

 

[cbdhemp808]

Thanks for the different perspectives. One thing for sure, "defoliate" means different things to different growers. And different techniques are used for different reasons. Here in moldville, I remove small internal branches to open up air flow, and I also pluck off leaves that have active black mold spots. I also remove fan leaves that are blocking light from buds directly below. Lollipopping definitely helps in my case where I've got small pot size and senescence setting in before harvest, to just eliminate the lower larf – i.e. dead and dying leaves stuck to sticky little buds.

In general, I try to retain as many healthy leaves as possible...

 

[Zephyrs]

how often and when i should defoliation there? switch to flower week 2 by 8-9 flower weeks?

I Concur with the other members. I currently have a Barneys Runtz Muffin and Bubblegum Momma plants at week 2 of 12/12 in a 3ftx3ft tent. And almost filling it up, or the light coverage at least. You're tent is kinda crowded. Which in turn Will lead to high humidity issues later in flower as well lower yeilds due to overcrowding.

My suggestion is a real bummer, and Just my Suggestion that's all. But maybe pull a few of those plants out for the rest of flowering. And definitely put them somewhere else If At all possible. Defoliation of the lower third, shoots and all is recommended as @Chrondocious and @bluter says! Just trying to Help! Have a good weekend

 

[bluter]

high or low humidity really does change what and how much you defol for sure indoor.

 

[Sativa1970]

This debate on the correct way to prune will never end. There are as many correct techniques as there are strains and grow conditions. No one technique is the one correct answer. Most of the defoliating and pruning is done to optimize a less than optimal growing condition. It dose not matter what or where you grow, the conditions can almost always be improved with manipulating the plant in some way.

Even with perfect light, nutrients, and environment, there is a metabolic cap limiting the plants total production of cells. By removing bud sights/branches that will not add to a quality harvest, the plant can use that energy improving the remaining buds/branches.

Young leaves are like solar panels producing energy and old leaves are batteries, storing for a cloudy day or nutrient deficiency. So outdoor in soil keep the fan leaves but indoor hydro they are a waste of energy and space. The leaf stem is the power cord. Where it plugs in, is where the energy goes. A leaf on a lower branch sends nothing to the upper plant. Farther you get from the "cord" the less it sends. So any leaf not plugged into a potentially good bud sight can go. Again, good and bad sights are determined by both strain and grow conditions.

The bud contains no chlorophyll therefore it is not capable of photosynthesis. The green sugar leaves protruding from the bud are new leaf growth plugging directly into the bud. Every bit of light on those leaves is converted and sent directly into the bud.

Last thing to remember is that the plant is not producing THC and sticky terpenes for us. It's only mission in life is to reproduce at all costs. THC is it's defense against being eaten and terpenes attract, pollen laden bugs to the buds. Plucking nonessential leaves can trigger it to up it's defenses. It can increase the THC and terpenes as a last ditch effort to pollinate before being eaten.

 

[Fenderbender]

proper training and defol can definitely reduce the trimming pita, can result in a better more potent plant, and will increase yield if managed proper.

defol on it's own will do none of those things. it needs to be coupled with a training technique to make it happen. it's about canopy management and maximizing the potential of the available light. to be done correct it needs to be taken on in veg, well before flower sets.

when left on their own, defol alone accomplishes little. it will reduce the trimming pita, but without any other approach it will not equal the yield a plant can do on it's own.

Even if you go for the classic xmas tree and don't do anything taking off all the leaves pointing back into the plant isn't a bad idea for lots of light throughput , and if you have any shading nice buds on the other side well those as well..
Plants usually have more than enough, and I find cannabis rarely reacts badly to any adversity, you break something off the rest gets stronger.. you can beat the whole bush down, it will rise again, stronger and firmer

What I see here though are many plants with individually not that many leaves, so I wouldn't take off too much yet.. maybe play around with the positioning, spacing, and a bit of tucking.