SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[013]

Sniff test results…..

This currently mostly applies to SWICKs but wanted to post this here first for SIP crew also. To borrow a turn of phrase from Maritimer… I’m defs in the entrepreneurial camp… I’m not saying anyone should follow my recipe for disaster, only this is what I’m doing.

In my first and only completed SIP run, I ran organics (organish) in the reservoir. Mostly Down to Earth Bio-Live 5-4-2 right down the feed pipe. Yes it makes res water smell pretty funky. At one point I tilted the bucket to steep angle and forced the res to pee and discovered critter larvae of an unidentified specie swimming in drained out water. I drained her bucket, added Neem oil to the res and refilled with water, kept on trucking to a successful harvest

In 2 current SWICKs I'm doing similar stuff. I have a small sachet filled with 1/2 cup of Down To Earth Bio-Live 5-4-2 mostly made of meals…(fish bone meal, fish meal, alfalfa meal, crab meal, shrimp meal, langbenite and kelp meal) plus 4 tablespoons of mosquito bits, 2 tbsp of Neem seeed meal, 1 small tsp of greensand and a hand full of bokashi. The sachet was placed underneath the perlite in my swick bed.

when I fill the reservoir I’m using my Dr Bronners Gold Gray Peppermint Cat-Piss Swamp Water (patent pending!) Consisting of well water, Dr Bronners Peppermint hemp oil soap, mosquito bits, Neem seed meal, greensand, DTE 5-4-2, FF sledgehammer yucca, FF root drench, FF microbe brew, great white, real growers recharge, bokashi etc, etc

when plants are moved around it stirs up sediments and smells really funky for a few minutes but the odor quickly dissipates…. plants don’t seem to mind.

What is this PPM thing I keep hearing about?? I need a PPT meter (Parts Per Thousand) but to be fair I usually soak all the ingredients in overnight, stir frequently and strain off the bigger chunks before adding to the res.

me thinks- if it works for SWICKS it should be pretty much interchangeable with SIPs too…

edit to add… full disclosure in spite of added mosquito bits each week one of the SWICKS does have significant fungus gnat population, but the good news is sticky traps & Neem oil (in res and sprayed on top of soil) they are finally on the retreat.

here is the the golden elixir,

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• Apr 5, 2023

When shaken- not stirred, it turns gray

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• 013
• Apr 5, 2023

 

[InTheShed]

Greetings SIPpers! I'd like to dip my toe downspout into a SIP this summer and I'm pondering my design options and looking for input here.

For those who don't follow my thread, my plants are outside all day and inside all night, which to say they are schlepped 2x/day every day of their lives. I flip using light deprivation at night, either in a tent or in the shed and I can flip any time the plant at a good size to still fit through the door in flower.

I'm not home during the day, so I'd like something that will have enough water to go 24 hours in flower, as well as be able to be picked up and carried.

I'm used to growing in 7 gallon cloth pots, but I get the feeling that something that big will create a plant too large to fit through the door, so here are my thoughts so far. Please let me know what you think:

A 5 gallon water bucket holds the equivalent of a 6.7 gallon plant pot, but you lose some of that to the water, so a 5
gallon water bucket with a 1 gallon res will be equivalent to a 5.4 gallon plant pot (which is about what I grew in this winter).

I'm thinking I need a 1 gallon res to last morning to morning in flower.

Or maybe a 5 gallon cloth pot with a hole in the bottom and a perforated drain pipe filled with soil extending from the bottom into the res, wedged into a 5 gallon bucket.

I'm open to any other design ideas that still make for something not too large/heavy/unwieldy to carry twice a day. Otter just suggested this:

Single Bucket Sub-Irrigated Planter

Single Bucket Sub-Irrigated Planter: How does a Sub-Irrigated Planter work: Sub-irrigation is the process of watering plants from below, instead of on top. The sub-irrigated planter works when you pour water into the fill tube and it flows down into a water reservoir below the soi…

www.instructables.com

...but I'm not sure it will hold enough water.

 

[Stunger]

Greetings SIPpers! I'd like to dip my toe downspout into a SIP this summer and I'm pondering my design options and looking for input here.

For those who don't follow my thread, my plants are outside all day and inside all night, which to say they are schlepped 2x/day every day of their lives. I flip using light deprivation at night, either in a tent or in the shed and I can flip any time the plant at a good size to still fit through the door in flower.

I'm not home during the day, so I'd like something that will have enough water to go 24 hours in flower, as well as be able to be picked up and carried.

I'm used to growing in 7 gallon cloth pots, but I get the feeling that something that big will create a plant too large to fit through the door, so here are my thoughts so far. Please let me know what you think:

A 5 gallon water bucket holds the equivalent of a 6.7 gallon plant pot, but you lose some of that to the water, so a 5
gallon water bucket with a 1 gallon res will be equivalent to a 5.4 gallon plant pot (which is about what I grew in this winter).

I'm thinking I need a 1 gallon res to last morning to morning in flower.

Or maybe a 5 gallon cloth pot with a hole in the bottom and a perforated drain pipe filled with soil extending from the bottom into the res, wedged into a 5 gallon bucket.

I'm open to any other design ideas that still make for something not too large/heavy/unwieldy to carry twice a day. Otter just suggested this:

Single Bucket Sub-Irrigated Planter

Single Bucket Sub-Irrigated Planter: How does a Sub-Irrigated Planter work: Sub-irrigation is the process of watering plants from below, instead of on top. The sub-irrigated planter works when you pour water into the fill tube and it flows down into a water reservoir below the soi…

www.instructables.com

...but I'm not sure it will hold enough water.

That's an interesting link Shed. I am interested in doing similar and making a SIP for use with my LOS media but I notice the author was against it

Materials needed:

• Potting Mix with fertilizer - it is very important that you use potting mix and not use dirt, soil, or potting soil. Use potting mix to ensure a mixture that allows upwards capillary draw, while also allowing for strong aeration to the roots of your plants. You need the mix to be loose, friable and porous like a sponge.

 

[Sleepy One]

Hey.
I'm interested in becoming a Sippie, but just have a couple of questions.
1. If using nutes, like FF, how do you feed? I mean, if you keep adding water or nutes, won't you be over or under loaded with one of them?
2. What about the roots getting oxygen? We let regular pots get pretty dry to get oxygen to the roots.
I want to try thy this out on my next grow, which will be soon.

 

[InTheShed]

That's an interesting link Shed. I am interested in doing similar and making a SIP for use with my LOS media but I notice the author was against it

Materials needed:

• Potting Mix with fertilizer - it is very important that you use potting mix and not use dirt, soil, or potting soil. Use potting mix to ensure a mixture that allows upwards capillary draw, while also allowing for strong aeration to the roots of your plants. You need the mix to be loose, friable and porous like a sponge.

Well if his concern is porosity, ResDog's suggestion of 30-40% additional perlite would help. I plan on using FFHF with perlite and bottom feeding Prescription Blend nutes this summer on one of my two. The other will be a standard 7 gallon @GeoPot.

 

[013]

Hey Shed, I’m throwing a curve ball at ya and hoping Azi is on vacation this week! I’m gonna be in the doghouse for the swick mention.

One bad aspect of 5 gallon bucket deal is the handle is useless when there’s a plant growing, so schlepping 5 gallons of wet soil plus res water sans handle is not an easy task. If 5 gallon bucket is too small then I’d say step up to a tub BUT once you get above 5 gallons of soil and 2 gallons of water it’s gonna be hernia time anyway, so yeah please take precautions Mr Shed.

I’m doing swick thing in fabric pots, with a cut up hydro net pot in bottom as root aeration chamber. It’s a 7 gallon grow bag sitting on approx 3 gallon plastic mini washtub of perlite and feed water.

While I haven’t tried separating the grow bag from the swick bed… I’m thinking for shleppers it might be easier to move the swick base separately from the plant… and that’s assuming there’s no harm in separating the two components. I don’t think you’d have to reprime the swicking pump each time you separate the 2 halves as long as the res gets refilled regularly.

Anther mention might be… don’t know if or how bad the grow bag might pee out retained water during said schlepping… so there’s that part too.

In my noggin sipping & swicking are pretty much same thang done differently... brb with pics. Using landscape cloth necklace to keep %$#@ funkus gnats at bay

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• Apr 19, 2023

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• 013
• Apr 19, 2023

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• Apr 19, 2023

 

[InTheShed]

I’m gonna be in the doghouse for the swick mention.

LOL...thanks for risking it 13!

One bad aspect of 5 gallon bucket deal is the handle is useless when there’s a plant growing, so schlepping 5 gallons of wet soil plus res water sans handle is not an easy task.

I would probably make rope handles for either side like my 7 gallon pots have now. 5 gallons of wet soil isn't a problem (especially with 40% extra perlite), and a gallon of water is an extra 10lbs or so which still might be doable. I'll run a test for schleppability!

please take precautions Mr Shed.

While I haven’t tried separating the grow bag from the swick bed… I’m thinking for shleppers it might be easier to move the swick base separately from the plant… and that’s assuming there’s no harm in separating the two components. I don’t think you’d have to reprime the swicking pump each time you separate the 2 halves as long as the res gets refilled regularly.

I have no idea whether the wicking action breaks when you take a cloth pot off of the perlite, but if it does that would make it unworkable. Also, the algae growing in the sun could be a problem with the nutes in the tub.

I'm thinking I'll stick with a SIP of some sort this summer just to see how it goes. But I'll need to keep sniffing the tube to see if a res of sunbaked nute water is going to be problem.

 

[Azimuth]

Greetings SIPpers! I'd like to dip my toe downspout into a SIP this summer and I'm pondering my design options and looking for input here.

For those who don't follow my thread, my plants are outside all day and inside all night, which to say they are schlepped 2x/day every day of their lives. I flip using light deprivation at night, either in a tent or in the shed and I can flip any time the plant at a good size to still fit through the door in flower.

I'm not home during the day, so I'd like something that will have enough water to go 24 hours in flower, as well as be able to be picked up and carried.

I'm used to growing in 7 gallon cloth pots, but I get the feeling that something that big will create a plant too large to fit through the door, so here are my thoughts so far. Please let me know what you think:

A 5 gallon water bucket holds the equivalent of a 6.7 gallon plant pot, but you lose some of that to the water, so a 5
gallon water bucket with a 1 gallon res will be equivalent to a 5.4 gallon plant pot (which is about what I grew in this winter).

I'm thinking I need a 1 gallon res to last morning to morning in flower.

Or maybe a 5 gallon cloth pot with a hole in the bottom and a perforated drain pipe filled with soil extending from the bottom into the res, wedged into a 5 gallon bucket.

I'm open to any other design ideas that still make for something not too large/heavy/unwieldy to carry twice a day. Otter just suggested this:

Single Bucket Sub-Irrigated Planter

Single Bucket Sub-Irrigated Planter: How does a Sub-Irrigated Planter work: Sub-irrigation is the process of watering plants from below, instead of on top. The sub-irrigated planter works when you pour water into the fill tube and it flows down into a water reservoir below the soi…

www.instructables.com

...but I'm not sure it will hold enough water.

Hi Shed, and welcome to SIP Club!

A few thoughts for you as you design your build.

First, a 5 gallon bucket SIP with a 1 gallon reservoir is capable of growing a monster plant as evidenced by @Buds Buddy 's plant shown In the first post of this thread. That one produced a bit over a pound, and I think he filled his reservoir a couple of times a day in flower which would be easy for you to do after you moved schlepped your plant back and forth. But there's nothing that says you  have to water twice a day, but doing so allows you a better chance at maxing out the SIP's potential. Also, moving the plant before you water would save you about 8 lbs. And watering is very quick since you literally pour your mix down the fill tube.

Buds could tell you how long he vegged that beast so you'll know what's too long so you don't overgrow your door.

He used a commercial insert but they're easy enough to build yourself if you're so inclined. I have a design post on page two of this thread with some other options from the link you posted for you to consider. The drainage pipe in your link works well, but I think it is better suited to rectangular storage totes than round buckets. For those, a circular container like a colander or food storage bowl of the appropriate size makes for an easier build.

I grow in a 2 gallon bucket which would probably be more consistent with the size plants you typically grow, but the reservoir on those is obviously much smaller (figure about 20% of container size as a minimum, mine are about 1L).

In any event, welcome aboard. These things are quite fun to grow with. Cheers!

 

[Azimuth]

That's an interesting link Shed. I am interested in doing similar and making a SIP for use with my LOS media but I notice the author was against it

Nah. Talk to @StoneOtter and have a look at his recent Cherries Jubilee grow. LOS in an Earthbox SIP. Match made in heaven.

 

[Azimuth]

Hey.
I'm interested in becoming a Sippie, but just have a couple of questions.
1. If using nutes, like FF, how do you feed? I mean, if you keep adding water or nutes, won't you be over or under loaded with one of them?
2. What about the roots getting oxygen? We let regular pots get pretty dry to get oxygen to the roots.
I want to try thy this out on my next grow, which will be soon.

Hey Sleepy. Welcome!

@Buds Buddy , @farside05 , and @LKABudMan can all give you better info on the use of nutes, but suffice it to say they work very well in a SIP.

As for oxygen to the lower roots, the container design takes care of that. Check out the first few pages of this thread for examples and a concept diagram to show you how it works. But basically you have a grow mix above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between. And I'm convinced that it's that air gap that is one of the true secrets to the success of these things.

 

[Azimuth]

Hey Shed, I’m throwing a curve ball at ya and hoping Azi is on vacation this week!

Nope.

I’m gonna be in the doghouse for the swick mention.

Not at all. SIPS and Swicks share many common elements. Thanks for sharing your sachet idea.

There are various views on using organics in the reservoir, some strongly against, others in favor. I use my Jadam nutes in the reservoir and haven't had any issues, but I know others use nutes that need a container flush every once in a while. In that case I would suggest using the two bucket "false floor" design which allows you to separate the grow bucket from the reservoir bucket to either flush the soil and/or clean out the reservoir portion with ease.

 

[InTheShed]

Hi Shed, and welcome to SIP Club!

A few thoughts for you as you design your build.

Thanks for the thread, the nudging, and the ideas.

moving the plant before you water would save you about 8 lbs.

Like this one...excellent!

Buds could tell you how long he vegged that beast so you'll know what's too long so you don't overgrow your door

I will definitely check, but I do know that my plants never stretch like the ones folks grow in tents.

He used a commercial insert but they're easy enough to build yourself if you're so inclined. I have a design post on page two of this thread with some other options from the link you posted for you to consider. The drainage pipe in your link works well, but I think it is better suited to rectangular storage totes than round buckets. For those, a circular container like a colander or food storage bowl of the appropriate size makes for an easier build.

I actually already have a number of tubs sitting around in the garage that I used for pottery (like a Red Vines tub I snagged - empty - from a little league snack bar years back). It should fit neatly into a 5 gallon bucket but I'd need to rig the overflow tube through the soil into the tub. I'll drop it in a bucket when I get home and see how much room it takes up.

I grow in a 2 gallon bucket which would probably be more consistent with the size plants you typically grow, but the reservoir on those is obviously much smaller (figure about 20% of container size as a minimum, mine are about 1L).

A 2 gallon bucket is less than a 3 gallon pot, so I don't think I'd be able to grow a 3' tall plant in that without it tipping over in a breeze (one of the reasons I never went to hempy). Even if I went with less soil than could fill a 5 gallon bucket, planting lower would make it less top-heavy in the end.

for the ideas!

 

[freed]

Possibly a drain plug near the bottom, to let the water out before u move it

 

[InTheShed]

Possibly a drain plug near the bottom, to let the water out before u move it

Something to plug the overflow tube is a great idea. Thanks freed!

 

[Sleepy One]

Hey Sleepy. Welcome!

@Buds Buddy , @farside05 , and @LKABudMan can all give you better info on the use of nutes, but suffice it to say they work very well in a SIP.

As for oxygen to the lower roots, the container design takes care of that. Check out the first few pages of this thread for examples and a concept diagram to show you how it works. But basically you have a grow mix above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between. And I'm convinced that it's that air gap that is one of the true secrets to the success of these things.

Thanks Azi!

 

[Azimuth]

I actually already have a number of tubs sitting around in the garage that I used for pottery (like a Red Vines tub I snagged - empty - from a little league snack bar years back). It should fit neatly into a 5 gallon bucket but I'd need to rig the overflow tube through the soil into the tub. I'll drop it in a bucket when I get home and see how much room it takes up.

I don't bother with an overflow tube with my diy food grade container voids, although that design is probably a bit better.

What I do instead is put some sort of large aggregate (hydroton clay balls in my case, but even large grade perlite would work fine) in a section between the inner dome container and the overflow hole to keep soil away from that section so excess water can exit more easily.

Roots will eventually populate that section so I have to periodically ream out the hole to make sure it functions properly, but that part of the build is much easier than dealing with an exit pipe.

Also, if you are using a non-perforated container for your dome, make sure you put enough small holes in it, and all over. I use a soldering iron which works great, but if you use a drill just be careful and go slowly to avoid cracking the plastic. Heating the container in the sun a bit can help soften the plastic some to make that part easier.

 

[InTheShed]

I don't bother with an overflow tube with my diy food grade container voids, although that design is probably a bit better.

What I do instead is put some sort of large aggregate (hydroton clay balls in my case, but even large grade perlite would work fine) in a section between the inner dome container and the overflow hole to keep soil away from that section so excess water can exit more easily.

Roots will eventually populate that section so I have to periodically ream out the hole to make sure it functions properly, but that part of the build is much easier than dealing with an exit pipe.

Also, if you are using a non-perforated container for your dome, make sure you put enough small holes in it, and all over. I use a soldering iron which works great, but if you use a drill just be careful and go slowly to avoid cracking the plastic. Heating the container in the sun a bit can help soften the plastic some to make that part easier.

Thanks Azi! I think I'll go with the drain pipe (without Nick's elephant adornment though). I measured out two different Red Vines containers this morning (4lbs and 5.5 lbs). They're both the same height but the 5.5 is wider. Both hold a gallon of water but the smaller one doesn't leave much room for an air gap.

Since they're the same height they leave room for the same amount of soil above (about 2.5 water gallons/3.5 gallon pot eq), but the smaller container leaves a bit more space around the sides for the wicking foot.

I may have to go with a smaller res to allow for more room for soil though.

 

[Azimuth]

You don't need much soil in the reservoir part, just enough to pack down well and get the wicking started.

I assume you're going to flip those containers over to form the reservoir void?

 

[InTheShed]

You don't need much soil in the reservoir part, just enough to pack down well and get the wicking started.

I assume you're going to flip those containers over to form the reservoir void?

Yes! Tub turned upside down (with holes) and held in place by the soil, with the overflow tube from the edge of the bucket into the tub. This weekend I'll put the 5.5lb tub in and see how much soil I can fit in what's left. That will give me an idea of weight and a plant-pot-size equivalent.

 

[Azimuth]