Amy Gardner Of Eden: Perpetually Organic

[Radogast]

Everyone is a work in progress and I am no exception.


A question for the indoor growing brains trust - this is all still pretty new to me so looking for feedback on my plan for a small grow box for clones/early veg.

I am thinking of a box about 500mm wide x 320mm deep and 8-900mm high. The viparspectra P1500 I won will fit and it can dim down to 8w draw from the wall so i will have control over light intensity. I’m hoping a small cloning tray w dome will fit and still leave me space for one small 2-3L vegging pot. I’ll use a screen to shield cuttings/clones from too much light. What do folks think of that size? Am I in a practical ballpark for the purpose?

Those cloning trays w/dome take up a lot of space compared to other cloning methods. I never had a lot of success with them. They domes tend to hold stale air, humidity, heat, or all three.

My personal favorite is a small clone bucket (3 liter size) that sprinkles water on the cutting stems. My second favorite is larger cuttings directly into soil. Some people have good success with cuttings in a glass of water.

The amount of light used by a 3 day old seedling is about the right light for clones.

Be careful about shading too much, especially if you take clones right before going into flower. Not enough light can push the clones into flowering.

 

[syenite]

I have liquid BioCanna nutes to use.

Curious to see how you find them. I'm using them but without previous experience it's impossible for me to judge!

I am thinking of a box about 500mm wide x 320mm deep and 8-900mm high. The viparspectra P1500 I won will fit and it can dim down to 8w draw from the wall so i will have control over light intensity. I’m hoping a small cloning tray w dome will fit and still leave me space for one small 2-3L vegging pot. I’ll use a screen to shield cuttings/clones from too much light. What do folks think of that size? Am I in a practical ballpark for the purpose?

Ohh yes I would love to see this. I haven't come across anyone else here growing in a small space! Would be instructive for me to watch you work with those constraints.

 

[Graytail]

Everyone is a work in progress and I am no exception.

I have had the benefit of an exceptional growing system the last couple of years. This is close to the last run with that and I am transitioning to other methods. All soil still - although I may try a soilless ProMix type (FauxMix) grow for a couple. I have liquid BioCanna nutes to use.

We havent seen the rest of the garden for a while My Panama is very pale. It’s the first plant to go into this new ‘water only’ soil I purchased and because Panama is a sativa and likely a lighter feeder, and these soil mixes can be quite ‘hot’. I diluted it quite a bit with coco coir for the seedling starter pot. Too much obviously. I’ve given it a little fish fertiliser and it’s improved somewhat.

I will hopefully transplant it later today into a slightly bigger pot of much less diluted soil and we will see... I’ll update that later.

A question for the indoor growing brains trust - this is all still pretty new to me so looking for feedback on my plan for a small grow box for clones/early veg.

I am thinking of a box about 500mm wide x 320mm deep and 8-900mm high. The viparspectra P1500 I won will fit and it can dim down to 8w draw from the wall so i will have control over light intensity. I’m hoping a small cloning tray w dome will fit and still leave me space for one small 2-3L vegging pot. I’ll use a screen to shield cuttings/clones from too much light. What do folks think of that size? Am I in a practical ballpark for the purpose?

People have grown full-term plants in computer cases, so size can be managed. If you can dim to nothing and use a screen (great idea), your lighting is easily managed. And if odor isn't an issue, you should be able to move plenty of air through it.

It's small, but it's a lot bigger than a breadbox, eh? And a lot bigger than a 'puter case, too.

 

[Graytail]

The amount of light used by a 3 day old seedling is about the right light for clones.

If I may be excused for picking a nit ...

A 3 day old seedling will thrive in full sunlight, but a clone will wilt and die. Clones need dim lighting. But I agree about "too" dim - I've had some bloom on me. It's just that I learned from experience that clones don't like light at all while they're rooting.

Once the roots have taken after they've been potted though, yes, they're pretty sturdy.

 

[Radogast]

If I may be excused for picking a nit ...

A 3 day old seedling will thrive in full sunlight, but a clone will wilt and die. Clones need dim lighting. But I agree about "too" dim - I've had some bloom on me. It's just that I learned from experience that clones don't like light at all while they're rooting.

Once the roots have taken after they've been potted though, yes, they're pretty sturdy.

I kept them at the same distance from the light.

HOWEVER

It is quite probable I've never given my vegging plants enough light, using a 216W T5HO for a 2x4' area.

 

[Graytail]

I take clones in cups of water and they last almost forever, but they only get distant light. I keep them a couple feet to the side of the lit area. I know when they're too close when they wilt. With the dim lighting, they never do - I'm talkin' months.

It took me some hit-and-miss time, but when I took 'em away from the light, I started to get 90+%.

You don't have to pamper sprouting seedlings. Once those fat cotyledons spread open, they're ready for the sun. I've set four 23w CFLS in a reflector 2 inches over fresh sprouts and they loved it. Heat, no so much - gotta be cool light.

 

[Radogast]

I take clones in cups of water and they last almost forever, but they only get distant light. I keep them a couple feet to the side of the lit area. I know when they're too close when they wilt. With the dim lighting, they never do - I'm talkin' months.

It took me some hit-and-miss time, but when I took 'em away from the light, I started to get 90+%.

You don't have to pamper sprouting seedlings. Once those fat cotyledons spread open, they're ready for the sun. I've set four 23w CFLS in a reflector 2 inches over fresh sprouts and they loved it. Heat, no so much - gotta be cool light.

In my my successful setup, a bucket cloner with roots sprinkled with water. I had clones, seedings, rooted clones in soil, and vegging plants under the same 16"x48" ? 4 tube CFL.

How close to the lights? Upon reflection, clones were not as close as the seedlings.

The canopy of the larger vegging plants were 2-5" from the lights. I created a platform for the small seedlings and clones in soil to keep them 2-5" from the light. Because the bucket was too tall for the platform, the clones were on the main tray with the larger vegging plants, this placed them 5-10" from the light.

When I intially placed the clone bucket 20" + from the light they wilted and rooted poorly. When I let the clone bucket be shaded by taller vegging plants, they flowered. When I had 1 light tubes burn out, I replaced it, and then within a week a second tube went out and I didn't notice, they flowered.

I don't know why my experience is different from yours. Maybe because the cooler temperatures 68-72F (20-22C) slowed down the clone metabolism.

I also never had improvement from cutting half of the fan leaves. I found my success taking 2" cuttings and stripping the stems to leave the top 2-4 (small) fan leaves. And yes! It's great how they last for months.

(Off topic: I also had success in my two tries taking 10-12" cuttings, and placing them in moist soil with a little rooting compound. )

 

[Amy Gardner]

For the record - picking nits is expected and encouraged here!

domes tend to hold stale air, humidity, heat, or all three.

Noted - thankyou! The one I was looking at had little vents you can open. Do those help much? I’m looking at the tray etc because I need a single something to keep them in. It’s contained and small so it appeals. I haven’t pulled the trigger on anything yet.

clone bucket (3 liter size)

Too much of a caper for me!

larger cuttings directly into soil

This would be a preferred way... but,

cuttings in a glass of water.

cups of water and they last almost forever, but they only get distant light.

Also for the record, I currently have the top from Sour Bubba still in water since I topped it more than a month ago. It has 2tiny root shoots

I’m not *trying to clone at this stage, I have nowhere to keep them, but I always keep the cuttings in glass of water, partly because they’re pretty! They’re nice to keep around. I have all the pretty cuts from the recent SB pruning sitting on my window sill (no direct sun). I have a nearby house lamp on timer set to the same as the tent to make sure they don’t want to flower. It’s just practise really. If they root it’s a bonus.

Once I’ve built the box tho, or had my helper build it for me , I will be hoping to develop a method that is fairly reliable. Even if it is keeping them in water and till they shoot! I’ve purchased some special genetics recently and won’t run them until I can clone well. I will want to audition, select and make seeds with them.

and use a screen (great idea)

Something @InTheShed used outside to good effect and recently inside too I think. He uses a window fly screen. I’m thinking I can have shelf supports in there and build a custom little screen so that if I have new cuttings or clones I want growing slowly in the along with a small plant in veg, I can use the screen to shield the others.

Thanks both for weighing in. It’s good to know that the size will be manageable, just . I’ve actually already revised it up just a little bit. Might make it 450x600x900 (1.5’x2’x3’). It’s still a work in progress in my brain, with some sketches. Scale model is next . I think that is similar dimensions to one that Dutchman made - that he uses for the same purpose I think. It inspired me at the time. That was about a year ago. Things take a long time in my world

anyone else here growing in a small space! Would be instructive for me to watch you work with those constraints.

I won’t be doing a full growing it. Not that I plan to anyway! It’s going to be for developing my cleaning skills and starting plants for the flower tent. I’ll be interested to see how long I can keep them in the small box before I have to move them.

Moving on with that project (a temp early veg box) has been partly inspired by thinking more about the 11/13 from seed and not wanting that approach to put a dent in my potential CBD harvest, which seed I will drop in late July. So I’m thinking I’d like to veg that one for awhile first just to be sure I get a decent yield from it. The others don’t matter so much so I’m happy to experiment with them. The CBD is something I need to keep full jars for and I’m down to an ounce or so.

About the BioCanna nutes, I have used them before and I thought they were fine. I had a root aphids in the coco coir I was using for it so I had to pull things a little bit early. But I thought it went well - I have absolutely no other experience using like products to compare it to tho.

 

[Radogast]

Domes seem to be about managing humidity. I think it's easier to manage humidity for a small room - or in your case a small bookcase.

A thought on an easy build for you - converting a large, second hand suitcase.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Well we have tonnes of framing timber offcuts and plywood panel sections so the materials are already here. Anything I build these days has to be executed by someone else’s hand’s so my job is to make it as simple and clearly stated as possible.

I’ve been meaning to share this so am glad the topic of rooting cuts in glasses of water with very little effort came up. Here’s the top from Sour Bubba. Topped 2 months ago. I know that tops don’t root as well as secondary branch cuts but it was pretty so I stuck it n water and had it in the shade in the tent while it was still on 16hrs light-on. Since I flipped the lights it’s been near a window getting indirect ambient day light and a nearby lamp for when the sun isn’t up.

I didn’t trim it, but I did protect the stem from light, thinking that could only help About 2 weeks in it started growing! This is it a few days ago - those side shoots were barely even there when i took the cut.

It was a few days later i noticed these

I still have it in the water and I dont think they have grown anymore since then. I should check again...

I have nowhere to grow it out so will probably chuck it eventually. It s a great indication that Sour Bubba may clone well though, so I’ll be watching these newer cuts I have with interest!

 

[Amy Gardner]

Update: State of the Garden​

Hi folks! We are now a week from the flip to 11/13 and things are rollicking along well.

I didn’t get to the Panama up-potting yesterday. Hopefully today. Here’s all the kids right at lights-on yesterday.

You’ll notice the pale Panama that I’m sure will perk up in a bigger pot of fresh soil. It’s greener than it was it got neglected in my tiredness. You’ll also notice that the Northern Lights Auto is still not a morning plant, LOL!

Family shot.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

Northern Lights Auto
Rest assured the NLa wasn’t thirsty, it had a nice drink the day before. It just wakes up like that and within 2-3 hours it looks like this...

NL auto day 59.jpeg.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

Since flipping the lights it has undergone what seems to be a second stretch period. It had already stretched and looked like flowers were ‘set’, but then after flip the flowers stopped developing and it started stretching again. The stacked colas got quite a bit longer and 2-3 stems elongated a lot and are now more spaced and ‘sativa’ like than the others. It’s like 2 different growth structures on one plant. I’m loving the nice tall stretched out one at the front! That’s off the first node, and the shorter fat one in the very back left is the main cola.

NL auto day 59.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

2.5hrs after lights-on

So it really seemed to ‘set flowers’ twice - lucky me! I’m thinking now is a perfect time to give it the Cat drenches - from the looks of it anyway. My only worry about that is that it was transplanted so recently and it’s unlikely the roots have filled the new soil so I’m concerned about it causing a problem. I may just bite the bullet and do it.
It’d be fun to see

NL auto day 59.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

NL auto day 59.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

Sour Bubba - day 59(+7)
This one is coming along great. All the plants are continuing to show pink/purple on the petioles and SB is no exception. So something isn’t completely right.

It’s often said it’s to do with phosphorous uptake which, when there’s plenty available the and plant can’t seem to get it, is usually connected to temps being too cold (so not a deficiency - an uptake issue). I know my temps are pretty good - doesn’t get below 65ºF during lights out and usually 67-69ºF (I think that’s ok?) so I’m wondering about this a bit.

Just a bit tho’ - I’m not losing sleep over it I also am very happy with how its coming and looking forward to all the buds it‘s promising me.

Sour Bubba day 59(+7).jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

Sour Bubba day 59(+7).jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

There are little green texta marks on the bamboo pole In the pic below - I marked that the day after flip, so that’s a nice stretch getting going

Sour Bubba day 59(+7).jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

Dark Devil Auto - day 60
What a creature this one is! Still predominantly green with just the hints of red/pink in the emerging pistil area, right where the hairs come out of the bract. It’s pretty special. Cat drenches were given last week - They were on the med-mild side and still burnt the tips a little bit, but not to worry. The flowers are looking really great to me!

DDA day 60.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

DDA day 60.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

DDA day 60.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

DDA.png

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

DDA day 60.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

I haven’t shared a critter for a little while and this one was actually in the tent so just had to get a guernsey! I’ll need to pop it over to my ‘Predators of Eden‘ thread for identification help from the brains trust there but meanwhile, I am almost certain it is a Lacewing

Lacewing?.jpeg

• Amy Gardner
• Jun 29, 2020

I haven’t seen it (or any other) in many days now... maybe it’s done it’s work and moved on.

I’ll mosey along myself now, wishing you all many good wishes as I go... to enjoy the delights of other gardens...

 

[Carcass]

Great update,Amy! -Not surprisingly, all your plants are just about perfect!
(the little Panama will be, as soon as she can stretch her legs a bit!)

 

[BooWho2]

Wow Amy, your garden of plants is stunning!

 

[FelipeBlu]

Beautiful photography, as always!

I like how the NLA looks like a castle. I had a Blueberry auto that looked like that after LST.

Love the SB - such lovely form!

The DDA is looking a lot like another couple weeks will probably have her fairly
dripping.

Could be a lacewing. Do you have mosquito hawks?

 

[Amy Gardner]

Wow that’s beautiful! I don’t know if we do, I’ll have to look it up... yes we do! Crane flies they’re also called. It is similar, but my (hopefully) ‘friend‘ here has a head more like a mantis, whereas the crane fly head is more like... a prawns?

 

[Amy Gardner]

Wow - crane flies are really gorgeous! Thanks Blu

 

[FelipeBlu]

Yes - crane flies. The larvae eat roots in soil, so if you see a bunch around, it would be good to check your roots the next up-pot.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Thanks all - I really do appreciate the support

 

[FelipeBlu]

We have a bunch around right now, but they shouldn’t like making their way through perlite lol.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Amy, re your cuttings in water, how often do you change it? Do you add a couple drops of H2O2?