CFIT - Potted Outdoor Grow - Bag Seeds - Two Varieties

[Kalomessimeri]

I initially started posting in the "my plants are sick please help me" section back on March 20. Now that things seem to be under control I'll start an actual grow journal in the correct section. This will cover everything I've done up until today April 15. Most will be copy and paste from the "help me" thread but I'll try to compress a bit.

Started March 20:

Haven't tried to do this in years, already made mistakes but started reading reading reading and made some adjustments. I live in the south, we've already had warm days and I want to try and take advantage of our great big sun before trying this indoors. These are just some old bag seeds for practice, they came from something that was pretty nice [as it turns out they came from two different things that were "pretty nice"]. I had several started in clay pots that were too big resulting in soil that stayed too wet and steamed roots when the pots got too hot. Switched to Solo cups with plenty of holes and everybody is much happier. While they're young they get just small amounts of water, I didn't read about vermiculite until after starting but I'll have better-prepared soil when we move into larger plastic containers. I use tap water that sits for several hours before using, our pH is consistently 7.0 [that was according to published reports and it was a lie]. Soil is Organic Miracle Grow [which I have since decided I hate] - I know, I know, but it's what I can afford and some people say they've had good results with proper management.

My big question back on March 20 was why are my plants all yellowish lime-green when everyone else's plants seem to be more of a deep green color. As it turns out my tap water pH was up around 8.0 so they weren't taking up nutes properly. I'm surprised they got as big as they did before I finally bought some test strips and figured it out.

This one got named Liftoff back on March 21, been sick but still alive

Liftoff March 23

Two largest that I hope are female and get the best treatment, later you'll see they're probably different strains

 

[Kalomessimeri]

Happy family March 25

In this photo Still stunted was about a week older than Please be a couple of females. It began life in a clay pot that was too big, soil stayed way too wet, got leggy then got steamed (literally) and fell over in the heat. Someone on another forum said to just bury the stem and it'll come back. I did and it did and here we all are.

 

[Kalomessimeri]

March 29 starting to get really concerned about yellowing leaves:

I need to ask for advice from you knowledgeable folks. Photos taken yesterday, problem with pale green leaves is progressing to yellow. I think the biggest plants are about 12 to 14 days old (I'm a bad grower, I didn't write it down) and yesterday I gave them the minimal amount of water-soluble 12-4-8. I guess they look slightly greener today but not much. I'm not sure how long it takes for the nitrogen to take effect but I thought it was faster than this.

I read about people using stronger nutes like 20-20-20 so I guess I'm not giving them enough nitrogen phosphorus and potassium? Is Jack's Classic a good brand?

You can't just mix 12-4-8 double strength to make 24-8-16 can you? Or apply the 12-4-8 every week rather than every two weeks?

Money is a problem, it's going to be a week or two before I can drive 60 miles to pick up a bag of Fox Farms Ocean Forest and get them out of this worthless Miracle-no pseudo-organic excuse for soil. Honestly I thought about just going in the backyard and digging up some dirt and planting them in that. I have a potted Japanese Maple I was going to partially re-soil for the Summer with the rest of this MG soil but now I don't want to screw up the tree so I'm just going to throw the crap in the trash. Worthless Miracle Grow, you're worthless.

[I've since re-soiled the Japanese Maple with the rest of the Miracle Grow Organic soil mixed with Ocean Forrest and Coco Coir and the tree looks fine]

Later the same day Major PITA wrote - and he of course is right about pH but it still isn't sinking in:

'N' moves quick. You should see a difference in a day with plants that small.
Yes - 2X 12-4-8 is the same as 24-8-16. But plants as young as yours (2 weeks) do not need anything, much less heavy feeding.

MG isn't good soil, but I'm stumped as to why it won't get them started for you OK. I keep coming back to PH and watering technique. They look dry in the pictures which is actually a good thing. Many new growers drown small plants. Don't put them in dirt from your backyard. If you can afford to cull one, I'd experiment with it. Add some fert's if you want, or knock it our of its cup and see how the roots are doing and how dry it is at the bottom. You can put it right back in if the rootball has developed a bit.

I get that $$$ is tight, but if you are going to play with nute's, the best investment you can make is in a PPM/EC meter. I'd get a PH meter, too, but not the type you stick in soil. I've had good luck with the moderately priced pen style. You do need to calibrate them, but I've had mine for 2 years and it still is on the original battery and hasn't varied more than 0.2 PH over that time.

 

[Kalomessimeri]

March 31 I wrote:

This morning I said to hell with it and mixed up some stronger juice - I figure it's about 18-6-12 or something like that, being real scientific about it, not. I'm doing exactly the opposite of what everyone says to do, I'm messing with them and I won't stop until they're dead.

I got the order mixed up but here they are as of 15 minutes ago, it's a beautiful sunny day. The color reminds me of certain Caladiums, maybe I should plant them along the driveway..

April 1 I wrote:

Well they're not dead. The two largest have five leaves on top and a nice skunky smell. Maybe it's natural for the single leaves on bottom to turn yellow [wishful thinking, denial is not a river in Egypt] like I said at the onset it's been a long time since I tried this. All that nitrogen didn't make them significantly darker - I think the lime-green color might be natural for the species. The seeds came from something that reminded me of what we used to get in high school (before electricity). Because of where I got it I suspected it came from Mexico and could be some hearty old-school variety that grows in hot dry conditions and doesn't take a lot of maintenance. But I don't know anything for sure, I just wish they were ready for harvest.


April 2:

It's a beautiful morning --- also I found a couple photos of varieties like Lemon Kush and Lemon Haze which when growing outdoors seem to have leaves similar in color to mine [more wishful thinking, they're yellow because they're SICK].

 

[Kalomessimeri]

April 3 I wrote:

Today it's been really hot in the intense sunlight, I try to make sure they get 7 to 9 hours of direct sunlight per day. I just stuck my finger down the side of one of the cups and it seems awfully dry (just watered two days ago). I'm thinking about giving them some plain water (already been sitting out to let the chlorine evaporate).

It's the watering thing that gets me so bent out of shape - too wet, too dry, happy, unhappy, blah blah blah. As I said it can get very hot here and water evaporates quickly. Maybe I'll go ahead and give them a good drench, if they wilt for a while then so be it, it won't kill them.

You ought to smell the three largest - they've got that beautiful skunky fragrance I haven't smelled in a long time. If I don't screw this whole thing up I could end up with some kick ass bud... for medical purposes only bien sûr.


April 4:

Moving right along. During nute experimentation the lower left plant got a double dose over two days but it looks fine to me. They've all got fading lower leaves which might be natural as those leaves get less sunlight [more wishful thinking, they're fading because the water is killing them]. I read somewhere the plant starts using the nutrition stored in those leaves to help feed new growth [yeah keep wishing]. They all got a good drenching with fresh water, some of them look dry because I added a little new soil on top to make up for compaction. Miracle-no soil is the worst for compaction.

 

[Kalomessimeri]

April 6 - now this part is true and not due to being poisoned by alkaline water:

My plants droop every night which is natural for certain strains, some more than others. After 9 hours of intense direct sunlight these girls are exhausted. At first light around 6:50am they'll be back at attention, it's a pretty cool thing to see every day! Tomorrow I go to the hydro/organic store in another town, hope to come home with some Ocean Forest.

 

[Kalomessimeri]

April 7 Sejd2131 wrote:

Its time to move these Girls to a much larger pot, i think you`ll resolve your issues.... Those girls have NO room to grow and its time to "set them free"...LOL


and I answered:

Consider the two largest ladies set free! Roots had barely started wrapping so I think the timing was great. Was up until 1am mixing new magic soil for a peaceful night time transplant:

6 parts Ocean Forest
2 parts Coco Coir (organic rinsed low sodium)
2 parts chunky perlite

Recipe actually calls for only 5 parts Ocean Forest and an addition of 1 part EWC but I'm on a budget and there are already castings in the OF so I modified. Also the hydro store manager advised used coffee grounds are full of nitrogen so keep them dried and when in need just spread on the soil.

Girls are out in the sun looking pretty damn happy although I hate speaking too soon, you know how it is. Also I've got one in a cloth pot and the other in something stupid I rigged up - after learning about cloth pot advantages it became sort of mandatory.

Later that day daTenshi wrote:

Awesome job. One thing I would do, soak the whole pot with water until you get enough runoff. It's a good way for the root-ball to expand in the whole space around the pot, for more water.


April 8 I answered:

Thank you for the suggestion daTenshi - I'm not sure if I've done this the best way. I didn't knock the old Miracle-no soil away from the root balls because I didn't want additional stress. It seems like years ago I was told to just create a hole in the new soil and plug the root ball and old soil intact into the hole. The nutrients from the new soil flow into what remains of the old soil and the roots grow out into the new soil. Again I don't know if what I did was best, I've read about people completely washing all the old soil off the roots and re-planting in all new soil. That seemed like it would be so much shock, particularly with this hot Ocean Forest -- which yes caused them stress last night. I got all bent out of shape over it and went to bed mad, but this morning they're looking a little better. Still have that weird yellow thing in the leaves I don't like [pH too high pH too high pH too high] PLUS I think these are TWO DIFFERENT STRAINS from two different bags (yes seeds were mixed up). You can see one is more sativa-dominant - I know exactly which product that came from, the seeds were all so small and funny looking I didn't think they were viable but obviously one of them was (it was some of the best stuff I've ever had, oh marijuana god please let this plant grow and be healthy and be female). But if these are two different strains then why are they both still yellowish lime green [pH too high pH too high pH too high].

 

[Kalomessimeri]

Also April 8 - I realize the problem has become critical:

They now have more yellow running through and sativa-dominant's lower leaves are turning completely yellow. They might be having trouble absorbing nutes, I've got to go find some pH test strips immediately. Walmart sells test strips for aquariums but I guess that would work for this application, it's all just water right? But I think we have to test the soil pH as well, some people complained back in 2011 about Ocean Forest pH, ack getting frustrated. pH testing is new to me but I'm going to learn about it real fast.


Major PITA wrote:

While not real accurate, you can get an idea of soil PH by mixing it: 2 parts distilled water with 1 part soil. Shake and let sit for one hour. Now test the water PH and see how much it changed from 7.0


I wrote same day:

Bought some test strips, our tap water pH is close to 8.0, my plants aren't absorbing jack shit. I guess the city water report I looked at was wrong. Moral of the story: check your own pH and never trust government (should have remembered that from high school).

Bought some pH down, got my pH to 6.3 and gave everybody a thorough drenching. I swear they already look better.

 

[Kalomessimeri]

April 11 I wrote:

All seems well, they're asleep after eight hours of intense direct sunlight. It gets very warm here in sunlight and potted plants take special attention and a little more water than they would other places. Water pH is of paramount importance, yes I realize that now. We've got little grey leafhoppers, I find them under leaves and along stems. I caught one in a white ceramic cup and it turns and looks at me and rocks from side to side on its legs, I wish I had a macro setting that would capture it on video. No visible damage but I'll need to deal with it, probably neem solution, haven't looked into it yet. I've used plenty of neem for blackspot on roses, can't stand the smell and hope I won't one day be tasting it - really nasty shit. I'm one of these people who doesn't like to kill things but I don't know how else to get rid of them, these plants are too fragile to spray with the hose. I'll take more pics here in a day or two, at this point the plants look very healthy and grow visibly bigger every day.


daTenshi suggested:

If you don't like neem oil (though heard it's great), you can always look for alternatives. For example I make a solution myself, from peppers and garlic. Basically boil some water, put the fresh peppers in there and brew like a tea add some garlic too, great for some bugs. There's always google to teach us. That's the way I learned anyway... great recipes you can do yourself. I hate bugs.


and I responded:

I know! How did we ever live without Google?? The internet is like having all the world's knowledge right at your fingertips. There's no longer any excuse for not knowing about something other than being too lazy (or stoned) to look.

I'm going to go mow the lawn so the leafhoppers will have further to hop. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Kalomessimeri]

Okay so that only took an hour and 23 minutes, glad it's done

I forgot to add this in the appropriate spot - when they were all still in Solo cups I didn't want to keep ramming my finger down the sides to check soil moisture so I started weighing on a postal scale. Difference between dry and wet soil is approximately 3 ounces, when the weight got down to just over 7 ounces I knew it was time to water.

A few pics from this afternoon, growth slowed after days and days of rain but we're still good

Look at poor Liftoff upper left, still so small. Just need to give up on it but can't yet, that would be like throwing out Tiny Tim. Actually it is growing again after soil transfer and proper pH water, just very slowly.

 

[daTenshi]

Subbed in!! The girls look great, very happy in their new homes

 

[Major PITA]

I'll take the ride!

 

[Kalomessimeri]

This cracks me up every night - they're not over-watered they're just asleep. Every morning they're right back to normal. Marijuana must be a very intelligent plant to actually sleep.

 

[Major PITA]

Yep. That's why I don't understand when growers run 24/0.

 

[Kalomessimeri]

Subbed in!! The girls look great, very happy in their new homes

I think "subbed" has to do with rep points, I should go find out how that works. I have other interests and I like forums but none of them have reputation systems.

Yep. That's why I don't understand when growers run 24/0.

Excellent point Major, I had read about people doing that. How ironic they're probably actually slowing growth and reducing yield. I think my plants look bigger in the morning that they did the night before so I guess the growth occurs while they're asleep? I haven't taken actual measurements at specific times but that sounds like a good project.

 

[daTenshi]

Here's how reputation works!

 

[Kalomessimeri]

Here's how reputation works!

Okay so I just gave you a positive rep for a grow journal and Major PITA for his Grape Ape, I see how it works. Apparently you can give a rep for each post but I'll assume no one does that. Still not sure what the word "sub" means in relation to reputation (if it's obvious I'll feel stupid). Thanks!

 

[daTenshi]

Oh a sub is when you reply to any post on where you automatically subscribe to that thread, and get notifications in your Settings Control Panel.
You can also subscribe to a thread by clicking on the Thread Tool drop down menu in the toolbar on top.

Saying you subscribe only lets people know you subscribed to their Journal.

 

[Kalomessimeri]

Oh a sub is when you reply to any post on where you automatically subscribe to that thread, and get notifications in your Settings Control Panel.
You can also subscribe to a thread by clicking on the Thread Tool drop down menu in the toolbar on top.

Saying you subscribe only lets people know you subscribed to their Journal.

Subscribe and reputation are two different items, got it. Sometimes I need things spelled out lol, thanks again

 

[Kalomessimeri]

I just looked at our long-range forecast, we're supposed to have one sunny day between now and April 30. I know the girls get some ambient light through the clouds but let's face it this sucks. I've lived in this broadly-general area all my adult life and this is the worst ongoing weather I've ever seen.

Now is not a good time to set up an indoor system but while at the hydro store I got fixated on the Ceramic Metal Halide lighting. From what I understand it offers a broad spectrum at a relatively low cost. He's selling his fixture with bulb for $600, illuminates a 3 x 3 foot area. I think he said the bulb alone is $150 but I see them cheaper on the internet.