Got Sativa? I Do! Table Mountains; Wild Lady, LC-18, Iklwa & RVDV

[weenmeoff]

Ok so my beautiful South African Sativas were having trouble, someone suggested ph issues which it sure could be but I use well water and all other plants look good, just these 4. I decided to up pot so LC got the 15, manly because I wanted to bury some of her trunk. The other 3 got 7s. I watered straight water.

@Neiko suggestions for feeding these Sativas? They typically like light feeds, correct?

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• weenmeoff
• Mar 19, 2023

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• Mar 19, 2023

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• Mar 19, 2023

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• Mar 19, 2023

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• weenmeoff
• Mar 19, 2023

 

[Neiko]

How old was your soil? It looks like they aren't uptaking nutrients. I've noticed cold temperatures don't cook the soil properly either. Generally the pure sativas don't require heavy drenches. I usually feed 2ml/gallon of soil and adjust from there but mostly everything I run gets that amount unless I know the strain. If that lady hooks up in that 15 gallon it's going to explode. She will be huge. I think your issues are due to cold temps, improperly cooked soil or old dormant soil. Do you think any of that could apply?

 

[Lerugged]

She is going to go nuts in a 15. Could be Temps. Also looks like ph. Otherwise they are looking great.

 

[Graytail]

How old was your soil?

Over on Shed's thread, there's been talk about calcium-balanced peat soils, and how the pH will drift up over time as the calcium dissolves.

For instance, I have an unopened bale of Promix HP that's been sitting in the garage for 3 years through winter and summer. Humidity will accelerate the drift and my winters go dry as a desert, so I dunno. But I think I should do a slurry test before I waste a bunch of amendment on it. Y'know?

This run I'm on right now is showing some erratic results like yours, Ween. What struck me was the difference I see between your landrace strains and that nice green one with the wider leaves. I have a KA5H that leans heavily to the Haze side and it struggles to stay green along with the ThaiChi, while the Y Griegas and other hybrids look shiny and fat. And I get persistent spotty rust patterns in the fans of one of my Carnivals.

For science, right?

Over the years I've seen most of my various soil conditions gradually fade away as things eventually hook up. I've upcanned into fresh soil that only cooked 2 weeks. I mix 3rd run with 1st run, recycle that mix again, and still get away with it. I stopped paying attention, so I deal with some odd stuff but overall it never failed me. I grow for myself so I willingly incinerate whatever I get. And of course, some of the worst looking weeds are the best ones.

If it were me, I'd work on the roots side of the equation, trying to get the soil hooked up better. Warm water for the feeds, extra Tea and Trans, get the pots off the floor, tinker with the foliars, etc.

I haven't mixed a fresh bale of soil in 4-5 years and haven't taken care of the old stuff, so I've been mostly shooting in the dark for awhile. Kinda eager to see how yours go. Pick up a few tips mebbe. Heheh, we have similar grows right now. I have 6 plants in bloom, 8 plants in 1 and 2 gallon pots vegging, and another dozen in cups. Future plants all over the place! Looks kind of intimidating.

I'll try to get some pics up on my journal. The old man has to learn some of that new fangled 21st century stuff. I have a nice 50 megapixel triple lens on my phone now, so ... *sigh* gotta learn to work it and transfer the files around ... pfft.

Glad I'm not growin' those wild sativas! Lookin' jus' fine so far.

 

[Neiko]

That's good info Graytail. In the 9 years I've been using Doc's kit I always pitched my soil after 3 runs until recently. I'm currently harvesting plants that are in 4th run soil and they did fine. I just bought all new stuff to make 3 new kits. I really hate mixing all that soil (need to hire a youngster to do this for me) but I really like starting with fresh 1st run. The winters here are very dry and cold as well and I've had issues with soil that just didn't cook well in the winter months. Most of the issues I've had have come from soil that was cooked in the cold months. I have 8 seedlings up now and only 2 plants that are close to flipping and one of my flower tents will be empty next week. I'm planning on putting the freshly mixed soil into that tent and let the light heat the soil to better cooking temps. by the time it's done I'll have plants ready to move in there. My LC-18 seedling is in this 4th run soil and while it looks to be doing fine, it is much lighter in color than the other strains. I also have a couple ACE strains about 4-5 weeks into flower (Bubba Kush x Malawi and Panama x Amnesia Haze) and those plants look perfect. I plan on using some of the 4th run soil (soon to be 5th run) outside this year. I'm not sure what to do about amending it again though. Should I do nothing, add 1st run amendment or 3rd run amendment?? What have you been doing?

 

[weenmeoff]

As long as you know the plant you can flux it. I've done autos, sativa, indica, the lot. If you know your girl you'll nail it

I’ve grown the mother of Doc Buds Lemon Paki, MedManMike made Fem seeds and I’m popping some TODAY! Let there be FLUX!

How old was your soil? It looks like they aren't uptaking nutrients. I've noticed cold temperatures don't cook the soil properly either. Generally the pure sativas don't require heavy drenches. I usually feed 2ml/gallon of soil and adjust from there but mostly everything I run gets that amount unless I know the strain. If that lady hooks up in that 15 gallon it's going to explode. She will be huge. I think your issues are due to cold temps, improperly cooked soil or old dormant soil. Do you think any of that could apply?

Yes 100% possible. I can’t say for sure because my old brain sucks, I had a kit or so of soil, 1st run, cooked well, but at some point needed to mix in a few pots of old soil so that could be it. I suck! Also, since we need to sometimes highlight our shortcomings, I screwed up a few times labeling clones, which led to me giving away male clones, I suck, ha! No worries, people are getting hooked up! I can only flower so many at a time but can take as many clones as I want since ‘there is no THC’ which I know is a grey area but damn, I bought seeds in a STORE!

She is going to go nuts in a 15. Could be Temps. Also looks like ph. Otherwise they are looking great.

Thank you kind sir! I know this will be challenging and FUN!



Over on Shed's thread, there's been talk about calcium-balanced peat soils, and how the pH will drift up over time as the calcium dissolves.

For instance, I have an unopened bale of Promix HP that's been sitting in the garage for 3 years through winter and summer. Humidity will accelerate the drift and my winters go dry as a desert, so I dunno. But I think I should do a slurry test before I waste a bunch of amendment on it. Y'know?

This run I'm on right now is showing some erratic results like yours, Ween. What struck me was the difference I see between your landrace strains and that nice green one with the wider leaves. I have a KA5H that leans heavily to the Haze side and it struggles to stay green along with the ThaiChi, while the Y Griegas and other hybrids look shiny and fat. And I get persistent spotty rust patterns in the fans of one of my Carnivals.

For science, right?

Over the years I've seen most of my various soil conditions gradually fade away as things eventually hook up. I've upcanned into fresh soil that only cooked 2 weeks. I mix 3rd run with 1st run, recycle that mix again, and still get away with it. I stopped paying attention, so I deal with some odd stuff but overall it never failed me. I grow for myself so I willingly incinerate whatever I get. And of course, some of the worst looking weeds are the best ones.

If it were me, I'd work on the roots side of the equation, trying to get the soil hooked up better. Warm water for the feeds, extra Tea and Trans, get the pots off the floor, tinker with the foliars, etc.

I haven't mixed a fresh bale of soil in 4-5 years and haven't taken care of the old stuff, so I've been mostly shooting in the dark for awhile. Kinda eager to see how yours go. Pick up a few tips mebbe. Heheh, we have similar grows right now. I have 6 plants in bloom, 8 plants in 1 and 2 gallon pots vegging, and another dozen in cups. Future plants all over the place! Looks kind of intimidating.

I'll try to get some pics up on my journal. The old man has to learn some of that new fangled 21st century stuff. I have a nice 50 megapixel triple lens on my phone now, so ... *sigh* gotta learn to work it and transfer the files around ... pfft.

Glad I'm not growin' those wild sativas! Lookin' jus' fine so far.

Thanks Gray! I’m on it sir! The tent they are currently in has in floor heating, should I still get off floor? I will give a tiny bit extra tea with trans and some with plain waters too, also always use warm water. Thinking a very light distress today……

Thanks Gray! It’s gray-T to be growing with you again!

That's good info Graytail. In the 9 years I've been using Doc's kit I always pitched my soil after 3 runs until recently. I'm currently harvesting plants that are in 4th run soil and they did fine. I just bought all new stuff to make 3 new kits. I really hate mixing all that soil (need to hire a youngster to do this for me) but I really like starting with fresh 1st run. The winters here are very dry and cold as well and I've had issues with soil that just didn't cook well in the winter months. Most of the issues I've had have come from soil that was cooked in the cold months. I have 8 seedlings up now and only 2 plants that are close to flipping and one of my flower tents will be empty next week. I'm planning on putting the freshly mixed soil into that tent and let the light heat the soil to better cooking temps. by the time it's done I'll have plants ready to move in there. My LC-18 seedling is in this 4th run soil and while it looks to be doing fine, it is much lighter in color than the other strains. I also have a couple ACE strains about 4-5 weeks into flower (Bubba Kush x Malawi and Panama x Amnesia Haze) and those plants look perfect. I plan on using some of the 4th run soil (soon to be 5th run) outside this year. I'm not sure what to do about amending it again though. Should I do nothing, add 1st run amendment or 3rd run amendment?? What have you been doing?

Forgive my ignorance, ha, do you have a journal or just growing for now?

Of course you Duggan is the n run 9 or 10 with great results. He stopped adding EWCs at some point so you may want to check with him.

As much as I hate mixing soil, it’s really the thought of doing it because I actually love DOING it, I find it and a lot of the growing process to be cathartic, therapeutic, relaxing, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc! For real-Zees.

Rock on!

KFK

 

[Graytail]

Thanks Gray! I’m on it sir! The tent they are currently in has in floor heating, should I still get off floor? I will give a tiny bit extra tea with trans and some with plain waters too, also always use warm water. Thinking a very light distress today……

Thanks Gray! It’s gray-T to be growing with you again!

Likewise!

Heated floor? Heheh, then no. Someday, I'd like heated floors!

And I can sure relate to the soil mixing. I love having my hands deep into warm fresh soil, feeling it crumble and fall through my fingers, breathing the fabulous scents. Mph, good stuff! But at my current age, the bending over and mixing part has lost most of its charm. Sure, it's ok for a few minutes, but then I've proved that I'm still virile and strong and all that great stuff, but ... no one is watching, so ... pfft, I need a fuggin grandson for the rest of it.

So, I guess I need heated floors AND a nice soil table with some room around it to work in. And a grandson. Probably too late for that.

It's good to know that Duggan is running on such recycled soil! It can be done then. Is he still cutting in fresh ProMix each time?

Don't take my advice as advice though, heheh. I'm just pointing out that things always seem to turn out pretty well in this kind of soil mix. The herd manages to work even when conditions aren't great. Feed the herd and they'll take care of the plants. I use cold water from a 5 gallon pail that sits on the floor. I don't keep a good log anymore so they get fed whatever I feel like they need. Ima lazy. And so far, the soil keeps saving my ass. I got the Faith, and things usually hook-up over a few weeks.

Does anyone still do the super-drench thing with the giant shot of Trans and Tea? I haven't tried anything that extreme yet.

 

[Graytail]

That's good info Graytail. In the 9 years I've been using Doc's kit I always pitched my soil after 3 runs until recently. I'm currently harvesting plants that are in 4th run soil and they did fine. I just bought all new stuff to make 3 new kits. I really hate mixing all that soil (need to hire a youngster to do this for me) but I really like starting with fresh 1st run. The winters here are very dry and cold as well and I've had issues with soil that just didn't cook well in the winter months. Most of the issues I've had have come from soil that was cooked in the cold months. I have 8 seedlings up now and only 2 plants that are close to flipping and one of my flower tents will be empty next week. I'm planning on putting the freshly mixed soil into that tent and let the light heat the soil to better cooking temps. by the time it's done I'll have plants ready to move in there. My LC-18 seedling is in this 4th run soil and while it looks to be doing fine, it is much lighter in color than the other strains. I also have a couple ACE strains about 4-5 weeks into flower (Bubba Kush x Malawi and Panama x Amnesia Haze) and those plants look perfect. I plan on using some of the 4th run soil (soon to be 5th run) outside this year. I'm not sure what to do about amending it again though. Should I do nothing, add 1st run amendment or 3rd run amendment?? What have you been doing?

Gives a guy pause, doesn't it? We just open the bale and mix it up without testing it first. Fresh from Premier it should be fine, but who knows how long it took for us to buy it? What conditions was it stored under? I see posts from guys talking about damp soggy soil they got from a big box or other vendor - the rain got in. Hmm. So I wonder if Cat Drench might be more effective for older soils, being more acidic. Stuff to mull over.

Don't forget water for stored soil. I keep mine in sterilite bins so I get a nice facefull of scent when I pull the lid up and the vacuum swirls around. When the soil has been nice and wet, I'll plunge a hand into the soil and it will be noticeably warm and there will be dew dripping off the underside of the lid. Dryer soil won't have that warmth and dew, and I think it makes more difference than we give it. It's the same temp and atmosphere both ways, so it's just the soil itself. Again, I'm lazy, but I try to remember to keep the soil a little greasy wet, where it leaves a film on your hand when you brush it off. It always seems warmer and richer when I go back for some soil later.

As far as what I've been doing ... just tossing the old stuff in a convenient older bin of used soil with some ECs and a portion of 1st run amendment (and water). But I just ordered a batch of 3rd run, and I'll use that from now on. Once it warms up outside, I think I'll mix in some of that old fresh ProMix, too.

Nice to be chatting again!

 

[weenmeoff]

Don't take my advice as advice though, heheh. I'm just pointing out that things always seem to turn out pretty well in this kind of soil mix. The herd manages to work even when conditions aren't great. Feed the herd and they'll take care of the plants. I use cold water from a 5 gallon pail that sits on the floor. I don't keep a good log anymore so they get fed whatever I feel like they need. Ima lazy. And so far, the soil keeps saving my ass. I got the Faith, and things usually hook-up over a few weeks.

Advice received and appreciated, haha!! I also know what you mean about the age thing, I need a grandson (never happen) or I am probably going to get a cement mixer!! I also have not been doing to logs and flying by the seat of my pants which is probably not a great idea with my feeble old brain. The floors are not heated, I have an under carpet floor heater under the 5X5.

I have SO MUCH I need to do in MY garden and I want to start a business helping people grow, ugh......or yay .not sure yet.....

 

[Jonny5]

Ween , are you using any worm casting on your plants,, ? Top dress and mix into the top 2” ,

 

[StoneOtter]

So Ween, These pure sativa's can ask for soil ph to be closer to 6.5 than 6.2 from what I read. Forgive me if I'm covering a road you've been down already. To keep it in the upper zone I keep a 2 cup jar of ro & 1 tsp fast acting dolomite lime. The mix should be bubbling with air but I just give it a stir and draw 5 or 10 ml and include it in every gallon of water. That's a Rev soil thing.

 

[Graytail]

So Ween, These pure sativa's can ask for soil ph to be closer to 6.5 than 6.2 from what I read. Forgive me if I'm covering a road you've been down already. To keep it in the upper zone I keep a 2 cup jar of ro & 1 tsp fast acting dolomite lime. The mix should be bubbling with air but I just give it a stir and draw 5 or 10 ml and include it in every gallon of water. That's a Rev soil thing.

Thanks!

So maybe our soil goes a little acidic as we use it?

(gotta start testing).

 

[StoneOtter]

Thanks!

So maybe our soil goes a little acidic as we use it?

(gotta start testing).

That's the rumor. After a while the coir or canadian sphagnum peat moss drops as it composts. That's why we like new mixes, it grows everything well. I'm trying to not throw my soil out and so far I can't say how re-amends it has but I had it checked at a lab recently and it was 6.2ph. I have to bring it up before I plant my sativas!

 

[Jonny5]

Worm poop

 

[Lerugged]

Yeah high quality worm castings is what I give my ladies.
Spoil base is 1/3 compost 1/3 Potting soil and 1/3 mix of Perlite,worm castings, rock dust and vermiculite. On top of that I dig in a carpet of living cover crops and plant immediately or, a week or two after it's been dug in. Got incredible results with sweetpeas so it seems they like nitrogen. And maybe a little hot.
Cheers

 

[Jonny5]

Yeah its an absolute must have,, a lot of growers worry about what is going on above the soil, when the importance should be on what is growing below ground,, ph, bacteria, fungi.. all Critical for proper uptakes,, The plant is secondary,, I start my seedlings in pure vermi compost ,, 3 times the growth of reg potting soil

 

[dr.h00k]

...I agree with EWC's...use them all the time in my own soil build...I know when you do a second run, you had about half as much as the original using Doc's recipe( i use it more frequently)...beyond that, I recall him saying you didn't need it as would be introducing too much organic material affecting what his formula/amendments do...Dugg's is on 10th run mix right now, and he uses less of the products associated with the process...I believe he has added more promix along the way, as well as some epsom's along the way...cheerz... ...h00k...

 

[weenmeoff]

Ween , are you using any worm casting on your plants,, ? Top dress and mix into the top 2” ,

So Ween, These pure sativa's can ask for soil ph to be closer to 6.5 than 6.2 from what I read. Forgive me if I'm covering a road you've been down already. To keep it in the upper zone I keep a 2 cup jar of ro & 1 tsp fast acting dolomite lime. The mix should be bubbling with air but I just give it a stir and draw 5 or 10 ml and include it in every gallon of water. That's a Rev soil thing.

Thanks!

So maybe our soil goes a little acidic as we use it?

(gotta start testing).

That's the rumor. After a while the coir or canadian sphagnum peat moss drops as it composts. That's why we like new mixes, it grows everything well. I'm trying to not throw my soil out and so far I can't say how re-amends it has but I had it checked at a lab recently and it was 6.2ph. I have to bring it up before I plant my sativas!

Worm poop

Yeah high quality worm castings is what I give my ladies.
Spoil base is 1/3 compost 1/3 Potting soil and 1/3 mix of Perlite,worm castings, rock dust and vermiculite. On top of that I dig in a carpet of living cover crops and plant immediately or, a week or two after it's been dug in. Got incredible results with sweetpeas so it seems they like nitrogen. And maybe a little hot.
Cheers

Yeah its an absolute must have,, a lot of growers worry about what is going on above the soil, when the importance should be on what is growing below ground,, ph, bacteria, fungi.. all Critical for proper uptakes,, The plant is secondary,, I start my seedlings in pure vermi compost ,, 3 times the growth of reg potting soil

...I agree with EWC's...use them all the time in my own soil build...I know when you do a second run, you had about half as much as the original using Doc's recipe( i use it more frequently)...beyond that, I recall him saying you didn't need it as would be introducing too much organic material affecting what his formula/amendments do...Dugg's is on 10th run mix right now, and he uses less of the products associated with the process...I believe he has added more promix along the way, as well as some epsom's along the way...cheerz... ...h00k...

Yo yo yo! I’m not going to respond to each quote but thanks all for posting great info in here!

Welcome to jonny5! Who I think is the only new person in those quotes. J5, my brother, there is poop in my soil. I have not talked much about my soil and lots of these guys know, I use Doc Buds High Brix blend of soil/nutes. Are you familiar? It’s essentially LOS in a kit. I’d love to tell you more if interested…….


Quick update, extra soil helped almost immediately! The RVDV looked so good she got bound and beat down……in a good way. I’ve recently started getting into Bonsai and love it, looking forward to my next one!

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[Graytail]

 

[Jonny5]

I have heard of And read Doc buds informative literature,, (nice sales pitch) I was only suggesting that you give your plants some castings do to the pale and yellowing leaves in the photos you have posted, not trying to sound like a smart ass either,, Just calling it the way I see it.. they’re lacking??? But keep up the good work.. they will come along