Icemud's 2018 Journal: Pine Tar Kush Pheno Hunt & More

Icemud · Dec 2, 2018

TheGreenYeti said:
I have seen it mentioned that usually sativas will have smaller seeds while indicas will have larger ones. How true it is I cannot say. I have seen seed size variation even in a pack of seeds from the same batch. It is interesting that your largest plant gave the smallest seeds. I am interested in seeing you hunt that cross. I am sure there are winners in there.

Interesting, never read that before, but also haven't done much research on seeds, breeding etc.. Thanks for sharing that

good to know

Yea I have a feeling there will be some real winners in the Trainwreck x Xmas Bud cross... Still thinking of names for that line.. CSI did the same replication and they called theirs Polar Express.... I was thinking of naming mine Lionel as in the old trains. When I was young my Dad used to have a Lionel train set and a few years we had it set up under the Christmas Tree so was thinking about using that as the name...

Icemud · Dec 2, 2018

If everyone can wish my Dad a happy Birthday.. he reads my thread all the time but isn't a member on 420 mag.. His birthday was just the other day

Happy Birthday Dad!

Icemud · Dec 2, 2018

Graytail said:
Hey @Icemud , I have a lighting idea to toss atcha.

I was having a conversion with someone using a mover, about umols and headroom awhile ago. I'd never thought much about movers - just seemed like a bit of a kludge - but they're actually very interesting when you begin to think about maximum umols and DLI.

Noon sunlight is about 2000 umols. If we try to reproduce that intensity indoors, we fry everything in sight. But ... on a mover it would make sense, and it would probably be beneficial to the plant because it would get short periods of high intensity over the entire plant, from one side to the other. That also solves issues with leaf shading - in a natural manner.

Very intriguing for commercial applications. You could do a diffused background with panels or strips, and then run big honkin' HIDs or COBs on movers. Diffused light can't ever be anything but bright-cloudy. Adding a moving high intensity source would better mimic outdoor conditions at very little additional cost.

Hey Gray... yea light movers seem to really shine in indoor grows from what I have read, and seem to be especially good for taking a high power LED or HID and allowing its coverage area to really be double that it normally would be in a static application.

I read somewhere a while back a study about diffused light and it actually promted better growth and yields than direct light, but it was years ago and I don't remember where I saw it. It always stuck with me though but I never actually looked into it much past that.

I definitely think that a mover would allow a plant to most likely get better coverage and probably helps it "recover" when going from super intense 2000umol type max light to less intense "diffused" light as I'm sure what we are doing to our plants with super intense direct light has to fatigue them in some way. I've read into "mid day depression" which usually occurs at that 11am-noon hour where the sunlight is generally the most intense and the plants rate of photosynthesis actually decreases quite a bit. Maybe a light mover, or clouds in a natural environment help with that? not sure.

I definitely have heard good things about light movers

My grow area was always too small to consider one, but for larger grows not a bad idea... It seems though that many now are moving away from single source high intensity lighting and going over to more mid and low power arrays of LEDs, which create less shading, use electricity almost 30 or 40% more efficiently and can be placed much closer to the plants eliminating hotspots. People are really having good luck with that style LED light, and I am seeing them really pick up steam in the commercial market as well. I would say that the lower wattage "quantum boards" arrays are very similar to using a higher intensity light on a mover

less direct light more diffusion

Icemud · Dec 2, 2018

So everyone.. I know I planned on posting this weekend the final results of my seed project. I have one more plant to de-seed and then I will be cleaning out the tent and getting it ready for moving my Deep Chunks over to that tent to get them ready for flowering. I have to make sure I spray down the entire tent really good with bleach water to deactivate any loose pollen that may be around.

Anyhow I will be doing the last plant most likely tomorrow night and then I will do a final post for the results of the Xmas Bud project. I have a word document that I am taking notes on the xmas bud phenos smells, terp profiles and strengths. I tried smoking some of the loose shake but there are just too many permature seeds in it and it tasted horrible so unfortunately I was unable to taste any of the strains.... but now I have a ton of seeds to grow in the future

Mr. Krip · Dec 2, 2018

Icemud said:
Yea I have a feeling there will be some real winners in the Trainwreck x Xmas Bud cross... Still thinking of names for that line.. CSI did the same replication and they called theirs Polar Express.... I was thinking of naming mine Lionel as in the old trains. When I was young my Dad used to have a Lionel train set and a few years we had it set up under the Christmas Tree so was thinking about using that as the name...

How about "Sleigh Crash" or "Reindeer Wreck"? It would be Santa's version of a Trainwreck! :rofl:

Mr. Krip · Dec 2, 2018

Icemud said:
If everyone can wish my Dad a happy Birthday.. he reads my thread all the time but isn't a member on 420 mag.. His birthday was just the other day Happy Birthday Dad!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR. ICE! :cheer:

Graytail · Dec 2, 2018

Ditto!

Happy Birthday, IceDad!

Your son has been doing some impressive work. :bravo:

Pennywise · Dec 3, 2018

Happy Bday Mr. Ice!

Icemud · Dec 3, 2018

Mr. Krip said:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR. ICE!

My Pops said thank you!

Icemud · Dec 3, 2018

Graytail said:
Ditto! Happy Birthday, IceDad!

Your son has been doing some impressive work.

My Dad say's thank you!

Icemud · Dec 3, 2018

Pennywise said:
Happy Bday Mr. Ice!

My Pops said thanks!

Icemud · Dec 3, 2018

Mr. Krip said:
How about "Sleigh Crash" or "Reindeer Wreck"? It would be Santa's version of a Trainwreck!

I like those ideas too!

Weaselcracker · Dec 3, 2018

Get the watering system figured out? When I go away I set up something like a drip system. In order it’s;
Timer- pump- 3/4” garden hose- manifold- 1/4” lines- pots.

I had quite a lot of trouble with the emitters, and also the manifold- which is a cheaply made thing. If your water is very clean it should be ok. I use rainwater and it tends to have a few bits of foreign matter in it so I would get clogs at the manifold and the emitters. Also the flow-rate valves that come built into the manifold were impossible to balance with the little bit of pressure the 185gph electric pump gives me. I drilled all those valves out of the manifold and removed the emitters so it’s just open lines, and that works for me. All the problems I’ve had with it since then were stoner-error setting the timer wrong.

Good job on the pine.

and happy b-day to poppa Ice. :passitleft:

weenmeoff · Dec 3, 2018

Happy Birthday Ice Pop!

I've used a similar set up as Weasel. The slow drip package wad about 20, way more rgan ill ever need but I think the timer was about 50. If doing that, definately do a couple test runs.

:passitleft:

Gazoo · Dec 3, 2018

I use a home made drip ring, small aquarium pump and cycle timer, could be setup on weekly timer as well

Found the big box store drip nozzles will clog, they have a small round material filter in them that can
be removed by putting one in a boiling pan of water for a few seconds, this softens the snap together
drip nozzle that can be pulled apart after getting a bit soft, remove filter and re-snap together. Once I
did that NO more clogging.

rt31

Gazoo
Jul 31, 2016

Weaselcracker · Dec 3, 2018

weenmeoff said:
...I think the timer was about 50. If doing that, definately do a couple test runs

Yeah most definitely set it all up beforehand. I just use a regular digital timer- minimum on/off period is one minute. Then I set up some containers next to the pots and measured how much water comes out in one minute, and extrapolate from there. Amazing how many times I managed to screw up some of the timer settings though o_O

TheGreenYeti · Dec 3, 2018

Icemud said:
Interesting, never read that before, but also haven't done much research on seeds, breeding etc.. Thanks for sharing that good to know Yea I have a feeling there will be some real winners in the Trainwreck x Xmas Bud cross... Still thinking of names for that line.. CSI did the same replication and they called theirs Polar Express.... I was thinking of naming mine Lionel as in the old trains. When I was young my Dad used to have a Lionel train set and a few years we had it set up under the Christmas Tree so was thinking about using that as the name...

The Lionel sounds like a good name with good memories attached. Krip's suggestion does not sound bad either. Happy Birthday Poppa Ice!

Icemud · Dec 9, 2018

Hey Everyone!!!

Well the time is here!!

Here is the final report and finish of the 79 Xmas Bud open pollenation and seed project. After so many failures doing feminized seeds I am super excited to now have a ton of seeds to play with in the future, and even more happy that I finally found that piney goodness of the 90s, just bummed I didn't get to smoke any this round

So in the Pine Tar Kush project, I used 2 males and 5 females in an open pollenation and my goal was to get a lot of variety in the progeny/offspring which is why I used both males to pollenate. One male was extremely tall, grew very very quickly and had a very strong smell when doing a stem rub, but the leaves were kind of odd and not very attractive to look at. The other male was very small, short, slow growing and had very little smell when doing a stem rub, but had perfect leaves.

Here are my notes I took during the grow and harvest of each female pheno as well as all the outcrosses.

79 Xmas Bud
Hazeman Pine tar kush
Harvested November 11, 2018.
Crossed with itself. 2 males, 1 tall with lots of smell, 1 short with very little smell. Taller male had odd looking leaves but very hardy growing plant. Short male had perfect leaves, but very slow grower

Plant #1 (back left)- This phenol started out with a very odd leaf mutation, varigation with spotted leaves and a very odd leaf blade, as it matured the leaves got normal however the structure of this pheno was much different than the others. Where the others seemed to grow less horizontal at lower nodes, this pheno actually had a very wide bottom heavy (Christmas tree) type structure. Branching was a ton on this one, and the terp profile is more green plant/pine but doesn’t seem to be as strong as #2 or #3. Similar to plant 4 in terps. Large colas on this one however, and trichome production seems to be about the same as others. After drying and during de-seeding, this pheno had an amazing super pine smell to it. Probably the strongest pine fragarance out of all of them, very pungent, strong and extremely piney, a mix between an evergreen bush and a pine tree. I think this pheno is the strongest pine terp profile and also strongest terp overall smell to it. This one would be excellent for breeding. I would have to say best terps overall, followed by #3.

#2 (back right) –This phenol also was one of the hardiest growers, and looking at the overall buds seemed to have the most trichomes over 3 and 4 but not by many and also seemed to have slightly larger yield than the others. Branching after topping was not as much where this plant had fewer total branches but also a Preferred Stock. I would say for plant size, yield and overall growth, this plant is rivaling #3 for best plant. This one actually seems to have the best terp profile after a comparison between all of them, very strong terps. Very piney with a skunky bite behind it. After drying and while deseeding, this pheno has a very intereting terp profile to it. It still is pine like the other but there is a strong orange smell with the spicyness to it like when you spray an orange while peeling it, sort of a sharp orange, and there also is a noticeable skunkyness and even kushy profile to it. I would say in terms of terps its probably 50% pine, 30% orange spice, 15% skunk, 5% kushy. Not the strongest terps but also not weakest either. This would be a good phenol to breed with Kushes or other orange flavored or piney strains. Very pungent terps and overall very dank smell. Terp strength 7 of 10.

#3- This phenos was the strongest smelling phenol out of the bunch. Upon harvest this phenol was a very strong pine evergreen smell with a heavy lime undertone. Very piney and smelled like a fresh Christmas tree. Branched well after topping, faster growing female. My #1 pheno choice. Preferred stock. (front right in tent) Upon harvesting of the seeds, this pheno smelled like fresh evergreen bushes, not as much like a pine tree spruce but more of an evergreen bush. Very fragrant and smells amazing! Definitely a very piney pheno.

#4- This was a weaker smelling phenol than #3 but still had a pine tree smell/evergreen mixed with an undertone of lime. The terp profile of this one is similer to number 3 but weaker. This phenol was very branch and had a lot of tops compared to #3, and also was a very hardy grower. (front left).Upon Drying out this pheno, and deseeding it, the terp profile was very strong evergreen pine, but with a hint of orange peel bitterness, not quite citrus. Also had a very subtle skunkyness to it, but mostly pine. The terps were somewhat strong, but not as strong as #3, still very good smell.

#7-This pheno was about a month or so behind the others in development. It had struggles early off due to the recycled soil and never seemed to catch up to the others. I didn’t top this one, so I can’t really compare it to the others because of the difference in time/age and growth. The terps are not very strong on this one, but may be due to the size of the plant which is about ½ of the others. It didn’t branch very much and struggled to really take off, but still produced a significan size bud. Terps are weaker on this also, but has the same pine smell/flavor. After drying and de-seeding, this one had a Pine/Orange Terp profile similar to #2. The terps weren’t the strongest, but also could have been because this plant was much younger than the others and had trouble in the recycled soil. The terps were probably 70% pine and about 30% orange smelling. Very good smell, but not sure how the progeny will be. Not many trichomes on this one compared to the others.

+++phenos 1-4 all same age and all had same height.
All 4 have similar trichome formation, #2 seems to be slightly heigher than others.

Other Crosses Made with Pine Tar Kush/79 Xmas Bud:

Ogiesel #2: Ogiesl 2 was an ogiesel that started off in flower but was having issues growing in the recycled soil, so I didn’t want to lose it so I moved it to veg. At this time it already had started flowering and then it was put on about a 3-4 week reveg schedule to come back to health. It never fully recovered and was a runt, but since I cloned it I didn’t need to keep it going and so late on I threw this one back into the flowering tent to get pollenated. It did produce seeds, however due to the back and forth from veg to flower to veg to flower, it may influence the seeds.

Ogiesel 1: This was a clone taken off of Ogiesel 2 and placed into new soil. It took off in the new soil and actually grew larger than #2. This Ogiesel would be the prime pick because it did not go through a transiation of light schedules and grew normal as other ogiesels have in the past. Very stanky, frosty and typical skunky old kush smell. Select phenol.

Mendo Grape Kush: Mendo Grape Kush has typically a orange-tangeriene type citrus smell with an exotic skunky funk to it. Very happy and healthy plant that grows fast in good soil. Buds develop large but are fluffier in nature but the smell and terpene profile is what makes this plant special. Also the leaves have a unusual “praying” posture all of the time when in veg and flowering, unlike most other plants. This should make for some very interesting offspring.

Gorilla Glue: What can I say about this plant besides wow… even though this phenol is a small yielder, the plant never has issues growing, leaves are perfect, extremely frosty in flower and very very stinky. Has a very OG kush smell with a undertone of pine, should make for an excellent cross with xmas bud. Excited about the offspring of this one. Should be a great indoor plant for terps and trichomes.

Black Cherry Soda (possibly grape ape): This is by far one of my favorite plants I have ever grown. It thrives in almost any soil, yields very large, loves topping, sprawls like crazy and the grape, fruit punch skunky fruity terp profile is bar none the best I have in my garden. A true stunner plant that is perfect in every way. This should provide for some interesting offspring. Not sure how the terp profile will carry over, but if any of its traits do carry over, it will be worth it.

Harlequin: This plant struggled the entire grow due to the recycled soil, poor root structure and overally had barely made it to flowering. I threw it in their anyhow just to get a few seeds which is exactly what I most likely will get. As a high CBD strain, with one of the most unique terp profiles (rubber, hot asphalt, new tennis ball) smell, It will be interesting what the offspring are like.

Trainwreck: Trainwreck is another one of my top strains that I have growing. This particular phenos is definitely cut from the same trainwreck that I remember from the mid 2005-6 era coming around socal. It is extremely frosty, probably one of my most frostiest plants, grows so large and quickly it towers over the others, has an extremely potent and fragrent terp profile, which smells very similar to xmas bud. Its piney and lemon terps are outstanding. This should make for an excellent cross with the Xmas bud because it shares the same profile, finishes quick and is very tall.

Icemud · Dec 9, 2018

And Here are the photos of the final seed yields.