My First Time Growing

[PeeJay]

Smokeater, I usually leave seedlings in their original 1 liter pots for ~ 21 days before moving them to bigger pots. It depends on how fast they grow - sort of. A good way to think of it is as if they were human children. They are babies, then teens, then sexually mature adults.

The biggest mistake new growers in soil-like mediums make is they feed the baby too much. You wouldn't give a human infant a big steak and a baked potato. resist the temptation to feed. After three weeks they have developed a good root system and they are ready for more food; but they get a bunch more food when they get moved into a bigger pot. There is food in the soil unless it is a neutral medium like ProMix.

A plant moved from a one quart pot to a three gallon pot suddenly has access to more than 10x more food! It doesn't need fertilizer for a couple of weeks after it's moved to a bigger pot.

In general it is much easier to help someone meet their medication needs in person than it is to help them on a forum. I like helping folks get a grow going, and have helped several med-card patients locally. What makes it easier in person is that it's easy to address budget, equipment, medium, feeding etc. I have a method that is really easy and works for others right out of the gate. Away from the forum environment folks I've helped locally are not bombarded with differing advice and techniques. I help them select equipment, provide them with good dirt, and it's off to the races.

The plants you have going right now are stretching like crazy - lot's of stem, not much leaf. Most often that's a result of not enough light intensity. I looked at those panels you have on ebay and fear that they won't get the job done. If you put a begonia or something under them they would be fine. Cannabis needs lots of light though. Say you went to the nursery and bought plants for an outdoor garden. They usually have a tag on them that says "full sun" or "partial shade" or "shade." Cannabis would have a "full sun" tag.

How big is the tent you have? In order to be successful it will need to have enough light to satisfy cannabis' full sun requirements.

As far as climate goes, if you are using LED lighting which runs very cool and your grow area is in conditioned living space they will do fine. If you are comfortable, they will basically be comfortable.

The cost of getting going medicating with cannabis is ridiculous. Fees for med cards can be exorbitant. Equipment isn't cheap. Mars Hydro makes nice affordable LED fixtures and I fear that you are going to need to upgrade your lighting in order to be successful.

 

[Smokeater]

PeeJay, Unfortunately, Because I'm disabled from my former job I don't get much money each month and we don't have the spare money to buy anymore lights or equipment. We just make our mortgage and bills for each month and don't have much left over.

So buying more equipment is a no starter for me. The tent description is 48"L x 24"W x 60"H 100% Reflective Mylar Hydroponics Grow Tent. If I can't make due with what I have already bought, I will have to stop trying to grow my own. I just thought that after saving and buying stuff a little at a time over about 5 years I would be able to grow my own. If it comes down to more money, then that's just not an option. I will just have to try with what I already have, I do have an additional light I had been saving for when I switched to the tent but will put it up to supply more light. Getting all the info you all provide has helped so much, but when it comes to money, I just don't have any to spend.
BTW, I was also told by others that the plants were stretching and I have moved the plants up to exactly 2 inches from the light where they can feel the warmth. I'm going to keep trying because my goal is to be able to grow enough for my personal use for pain management instead of the narcotics I have to take everyday and I know that they are damaging my liver and kidneys.
But I appreciate the info on what you think, I really do! Please keep the suggestions coming, They have helped me out a whole lot already.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Arteekay led me here from his contest post. Thanks arteekay! I know you are on a budget and I can help you get things done as cheap as possible!

You can definitely grow using that tent. Like you said this equipment is stuff you have saved for. Of the things you have what you will need most are new plant pots but not yet. I would suggest plastic containers like milk jugs size but not clear. Possibly laundry detergent. You would just cut the top off to make a pot and then cut holes in the bottom for drainage. Three to four one inch holes would do it. Do you have pots and soil for them already? 1 gallon containers would be ok but really 2-3 gallons for your setup would be ideal.

The next worry we have is fertilizer. What fertilizer do you have? If you don't have any what I am going to recommend is Osmocote plus. You can pay about five dollars to get enough Osmocote plus to grow for a year or longer. It is hard to over fertilize with Osmocote because it is designed to keep things at a certain concentration. But you won't need fertilizer until about 2-3 weeks. What soil do you have them in now? It may have some fertilizer already in it.

The lights you have are not super high power. They will still grow some nice plants we just must be aware of their limitations. The low power LEDs will not penetrate very far. So we want the plants as short as possible. Now you have the lights very close. That is good, they won't stretch so much. Hopefully you still have them on 12/12. Plants started from seed will flower as soon as they are mature like Radogast said. We want them to flower as soon as they are able and also after transplant to their final pot.

Keep that usb fan blowing right in between the lights and the plant tops. This will help prevent any heat issues.

Lastly, stay positive. We can help you do this! Please answer the questions I asked and we will get further on a grow plan. Thank you for your service to us brother. We all owe you a debt for keeping us safe! And keep reading all you can. That's free. You can ask questions at any time if you have them. Let me know if you have problems with getting more pics. Pics are super necessary for us to help you so posting them often is great!

Glad to be here.
Shiggy

 

[Smokeater]

Arteekay led me here from his contest post. Thanks arteekay! I know you are on a budget and I can help you get things done as cheap as possible!

You can definitely grow using that tent. Like you said this equipment is stuff you have saved for. Of the things you have what you will need most are new plant pots but not yet. I would suggest plastic containers like milk jugs size but not clear. Possibly laundry detergent. You would just cut the top off to make a pot and then cut holes in the bottom for drainage. Three to four one inch holes would do it. Do you have pots and soil for them already? 1 gallon containers would be ok but really 2-3 gallons for your setup would be ideal.

The next worry we have is fertilizer. What fertilizer do you have? If you don't have any what I am going to recommend is Osmocote plus. You can pay about five dollars to get enough Osmocote plus to grow for a year or longer. It is hard to over fertilize with Osmocote because it is designed to keep things at a certain concentration. But you won't need fertilizer until about 2-3 weeks. What soil do you have them in now? It may have some fertilizer already in it.

The lights you have are not super high power. They will still grow some nice plants we just must be aware of their limitations. The low power LEDs will not penetrate very far. So we want the plants as short as possible. Now you have the lights very close. That is good, they won't stretch so much. Hopefully you still have them on 12/12. Plants started from seed will flower as soon as they are mature like Radogast said. We want them to flower as soon as they are able and also after transplant to their final pot.

Keep that usb fan blowing right in between the lights and the plant tops. This will help prevent any heat issues.

Lastly, stay positive. We can help you do this! Please answer the questions I asked and we will get further on a grow plan. Thank you for your service to us brother. We all owe you a debt for keeping us safe! And keep reading all you can. That's free. You can ask questions at any time if you have them. Let me know if you have problems with getting more pics. Pics are super necessary for us to help you so posting them often is great!

Glad to be here.
Shiggy

Shiggy, I will have the wife start saving laundry detergent, etc. jugs, I will look for that Oscocote Plus, But the soil I'm using now came from a Gourmet chia herb garden and came in 3 discs that had to be soaked until they were all dirt and I believe they do have fertilizer in them.

They are still on a 12/12 cycle. I readjusted the fan to assure both plants get the best air movement. I'm staying positive as much as I can, I was getting down when people said it was going to cost me tons of money (which I just don't have due to my old job that I became disabled at after a long time of helping people and in that job, disability pay isn't all that much because our base salary was never that good). I am hoping to buy dirt today (to pile the dirt up higher around the stems and get the bud closer to the dirt and I will need it later on anyways) and was wondering, Is regular fertilized potting soil good or do I need a special type to avoid the pests?

And a big thank you for the help, I really do appreciate it! It means a lot to me to have people who go out of their way to help me. Unfortunately, it seems to keep coming back to money which I have very little of and why I appreciate all the pointers I'm getting from you and other people similar to yourself, But your ideas I will use as they grow older and are ready for a transplant. And a thanks to Arteekay for telling you about my little journal.

 

[Smokeater]

Safe to assume you have downloaded the pics from your phone to your computer?

step 1: Top of the page where it says (Welcome Smokeater116 / My Profile / Settings)---Just below that in black type hover over "Gallery" and click on "Upload Photos"

Step 2: Bottom of the page click on "Select Files for Upload" Should bring you to where your pictures are on YOUR computer! Find the pics you want to download and select them and click on "open"...

Step 3: To the left of "Select Files for Upload" you should see them in waiting for upload. (not the actual pics just the info)----Click on (upload/submit)... They should start loading

Step 4: When they are all done it will bring you to the top of the page where it will say (Process) click on that! Your picture should be in your gallery at this point!

Step 4: Go to your profile and under gallery will find the pics! I hope!!!

When you post a comment at the bottom left you will see (my photos) click on that and it will bring you to your photo gallery and just click on the pics you want on the post and they will be there!

I'm not the best at explaining this but I hope it helped? Try it and lets see!!! Waiting to see this grow...

1 more question if that's O.K.? After I uploaded my pics, they still come up when I try to post a new pic. Do I have to repost all my pics even when I just have 1 pic? Looking around at other pages it doesn't look that way. How do I get rid of the old pics so I can post new ones? I just tried using your instructions again, but when the pictures come up, it shows all my pics still and I want to just post 1 pic

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Shiggy, I will have the wife start saving laundry detergent, etc. jugs, I will look for that Oscocote Plus, But the soil I'm using now came from a Gourmet chia herb garden and came in 3 discs that had to be soaked until they were all dirt and I believe they do have fertilizer in them.

They are still on a 12/12 cycle. I readjusted the fan to assure both plants get the best air movement. I'm staying positive as much as I can, I was getting down when people said it was going to cost me tons of money (which I just don't have due to my old job that I became disabled at after a long time of helping people and in that job, disability pay isn't all that much because our base salary was never that good). I am hoping to buy dirt today (to pile the dirt up higher around the stems and get the bud closer to the dirt and I will need it later on anyways) and was wondering, Is regular fertilized potting soil good or do I need a special type to avoid the pests?

And a big thank you for the help, I really do appreciate it! It means a lot to me to have people who go out of their way to help me. Unfortunately, it seems to keep coming back to money which I have very little of and why I appreciiate all the pointers I'm getting from you and other people similar to yourself, But your ideas I will use as they grow older and are ready for a transplant. And a thanks to Arteekay for telling you about my little journal.

If you can find soil without fertilizer I would use that. At the big home stores I have found sunshine mix or pro-mix. If you can afford them they are good. I have also gotten by with getting a large bag of peat moss and a small bag of perlite and mixing them. Wear a mask or bandana over your nose to not inhale soil when mixing. Perlite is particularly bad. Wetting it down really helps. For this first grow any potting soil should do fine. But as I said try and find one without nutrients and add the Osmocote plus.

I can understand about the money crunch. And that's why we are going to get you to harvest with as little money spent as possible. You may not end up with a huge amount of harvest but I think it will be worth it for you! The suggestions people have made are all good but I still think we can get this done with what you have now(plus Osmocote and potting soil). If you get to the store and have questions on potting soil, list what is available and we can help make the decision.

 

[arteekay]

1 more question if that's O.K.? After I uploaded my pics, they still come up when I try to post a new pic. Do I have to repost all my pics even when I just have 1 pic? Looking around at other pages it doesn't look that way. How do I get rid of the old pics so I can post new ones? I just tried using your instructions again, but when the pictures come up, it shows all my pics still and I want to just post 1 pic

I think you are mixing terms here and it's confusing ya. You were successful in uploading pics once using the instructions Ripples gave you here, you need to do the same process when you take new pictures. The pictures you've already uploaded will stay on your computer and will be added to the gallery on 420magazine's servers.

I'm guessing when you go to upload your new pics, you're seeing all the pics you've transferred before. One easy way to deal with what is new and what is already uploaded is to create a new folder and move your pics into it once you've uploaded them here.

 

[PeeJay]

Sorry if I came off as a buzz kill, Smokie. I just get frustrated when someone like yourself needs medication that isn't covered by insurance. You'll get a ton of help here. Shiggy's dirt recs are good. You can do the peat moss and perlite for about half what Sunshine Mix or Pro Mix will cost. If you do peat and perlite you'll also need to buffer the soil, but that is easy and inexpensive.

I sent you PM.

PJ

 

[Smokeater]

If you can find soil without fertilizer I would use that. At the big home stores I have found sunshine mix or pro-mix. If you can afford them they are good. I have also gotten by with getting a large bag of peat moss and a small bag of perlite and mixing them. Wear a mask or bandana over your nose to not inhale soil when mixing. Perlite is particularly bad. Wetting it down really helps. For this first grow any potting soil should do fine. But as I said try and find one without nutrients and add the Osmocote plus.

I can understand about the money crunch. And that's why we are going to get you to harvest with as little money spent as possible. You may not end up with a huge amount of harvest but I think it will be worth it for you! The suggestions people have made are all good but I still think we can get this done with what you have now(plus Osmocote and potting soil). If you get to the store and have questions on potting soil, list what is available and we can help make the decision.

I purchased "Jiffy Natural & Organic seed starting mix" for $12.00 for 24 quarts. Does this sound O.K.? I want to make sure before I use it and like I said, I need help when it comes to shopping, my wife went in and got me an electric cart at Walmart (She wanted to go right away this morning and I didn't get a chance to wait for an answer to my post) and that was the only potting soil they had. I will purchase the Osmocote plus as soon as I can. I found it on Amazon I believe. They have "Osmocote 277160 Flower and Vegetable Smart-Release Plant Food, 14-14-14, 1-Pound Bottle" for $15.35. If that's the right stuff, I will order it after the 15th (when my disability check comes in).

1 last question, I moved my plants to 2 inches from my light, But when I checked them just now, They look like they are bending away from the light. I had moved some dirt up against the stalk, but they seemed fine still this morning when the lights turned on at 7 A.M., but are now going a little sideways, does that mean they are too close to the light (I assume)?

 

[ShiggityFlip]

I purchased "Jiffy Natural & Organic seed starting mix" for $12.00 for 24 quarts. Does this sound O.K.? I want to make sure before I use it and like I said, I need help when it comes to shopping, my wife went in and got me an electric cart at Walmart (She wanted to go right away this morning and I didn't get a chance to wait for an answer to my post) and that was the only potting soil they had. I will purchase the Osmocote plus as soon as I can. I found it on Amazon I believe. They have "Osmocote 277160 Flower and Vegetable Smart-Release Plant Food, 14-14-14, 1-Pound Bottle" for $15.35. If that's the right stuff, I will order it after the 15th (when my disability check comes in).

1 last question, I moved my plants to 2 inches from my light, But when I checked them just now, They look like they are bending away from the light. I had moved some dirt up against the stalk, but they seemed fine still this morning when the lights turned on at 7 A.M., but are now going a little sideways, does that mean they are too close to the light (I assume)?

You definitely want the osmocote plus not just regular osmocote. It has micronutrients as well as the Nitrogen Phosphorus and Potassium. You can find it at almost any home/garden center. They will also have smaller bottles that cost less than ten dollars.

The soil you bought sounds fine to me. Looking online it said it is almost equal parts vermicullite and peat. If you can add some perlite that would be great. If not then you should still be ok.

The plants may look like they are bending away but is this because of the light or are they getting tall enough to start bending? A small pipe cleaner, popsicle stick, or even a pencil can be used to stake them up. Don't tie anything tightly around the stem to support it. If you have pipe cleaners you can stick one end in soil and make a loose loop at the other end to prop up the plant. Look at the leaves. If they are still nice and green I think you are fine. Also put your hand two inches from the light and feel it on the back of your hand. If your hand feels a bit too warm then raise the light a few inches.

With the plants in vegetative (non flowering) we want to set up a wet dry cycle. No fertilizer yet. Just plain water. You will feel when the pot feels really dry and empty.that is the time to water. But before the plant begins to wilt. So you must watch and lift the pot often to get a feel for it. Then we soak the entire pot in water. Let the pot sit 3/4 submerged in water for 3-5 minutes. Then lift the pot out and let it drain thoroughly! Then we let the pot go to full dry again. What this does is signal the growing seedling that it should send out more roots. That is what we are wanting most of all right now. We are building roots at all costs. When it gets to be only one day in between waterings that is the time to transplant to a bigger container.

The first time you wet that new soil you are going to put some of that soil in the bottom 2 inches of your new containers. then sprinkle a couple tablespoons osmocote plus in there. Then you will put your plant in the pot too. If the container is too tall add more soil so the plants first leaves will be above the side of the container. Then fill the container around the plant with more soil carefully so as not to hurt the plant. in the last two inches at the top sprinkle in a few more tablespoons of osmocote plus. Then a final layer of soil so that your plant has its original soil nicely covered. Then take the whole pot and place it in a dish bin or 5 gallon bucket and drench it with water until 3/4 of the container is covered. Pour a little water on top as well. Let it sit for 3-5 minutes and drain thoroughly. A few drops of dish soap in the water the first time you water the plant after transplanting to big pots will help the soil allow the water to spread evenly. Only need to do that once.

-Shiggy

 

[PeeJay]

That two inch height is too close. If you were using compact fluorescent bulbs then 2'" would be ideal, but you are using LEDs. The LED lights have lots of little diodes with different colored lenses. The light needs to be high enough that the colors blend. I'd guess about 12" would be enough but any closer and the plant will freak out a bit from getting only one color here and one there, if you get my drift.

Did you keep your receipt for the Jiffy Mix? It isn't the best choice. Peat Moss costs about $12.00 for a 3 cubic foot bale and there are 7 gallons of soil in a cubic foot. You would need to mix in 1 part perlite to 3.5 parts peat. A Cubic foot of perlite would be about another $10 but you'd have ~ 28 gallons of soil compared to the 3 gallons of Jiffy Mix you have now and I think you would have better results.

As an osmocote alternative you could order 5lbs of Soil Mender Yum Yum mix for $21.00. It is a great mineralized organic soil amendment. BAR grows in a mix of Peet, Pertlite and Yum-Yum with great results. He also saves his eggshells, toasts them under the broiler and then grinds 'em up and adds them to the soil mix which takes care of the buffering. That is an extremely thrifty high performance soil mix for cannabis. All you need to do is water the plants and they rock.

I'm not saying that the Jiffy seedling mix won't work - I haven't seen anyone grow in it. I have, however, seen folks try the Miracle Grow seedling mix and it was not so good. My guess is that because it's a seed starting mix it isn't very well aerated and will compact to a point over the plant's lifespan that it will cause problems.

For osmocote you would also want to mix perlite and peat at the same ratio listed above. Ground up toasted eggshells or inexpensive garden lime would provide the pH buffering you need. I have seen some really nice plants grown with osmocote in a peat base.

 

[PeeJay]

You definitely want the osmocote plus not just regular osmocote. It has micronutrients as well as the Nitrogen Phosphorus and Potassium. You can find it at almost any home/garden center. They will also have smaller bottles that cost less than ten dollars.

The soil you bought sounds fine to me. Looking online it said it is almost equal parts vermicullite and peat. If you can add some perlite that would be great. If not then you should still be ok.


With the plants in vegetative (non flowering) we want to set up a wet dry cycle. No fertilizer yet. Just plain water. You will feel when the pot feels really dry and empty.that is the time to water. But before the plant begins to wilt. So you must watch and lift the pot often to get a feel for it. Then we soak the entire pot in water. Let the pot sit 3/4 submerged in water for 3-5 minutes. Then lift the pot out and let it drain thoroughly! Then we let the pot go to full dry again. What this does is signal the growing seedling that it should send out more roots. That is what we are wanting most of all right now. We are building roots at all costs. When it gets to be only one day in between waterings that is the time to transplant to a bigger container.

The first time you wet that new soil you are going to put some of that soil in the bottom 2 inches of your new containers. then sprinkle a couple tablespoons osmocote plus in there. Then you will put your plant in the pot too. If the container is too tall add more soil so the plants first leaves will be above the side of the container. Then fill the container around the plant with more soil carefully so as not to hurt the plant. in the last two inches at the top sprinkle in a few more tablespoons of osmocote plus. Then a final layer of soil so that your plant has its original soil nicely covered. Then take the whole pot and place it in a dish bin or 5 gallon bucket and drench it with water until 3/4 of the container is covered. Pour a little water on top as well. Let it sit for 3-5 minutes and drain thoroughly. A few drops of dish soap in the water the first time you water the plant after transplanting to big pots will help the soil allow the water to spread evenly. Only need to do that once.

-Shiggy

Great watering advice, Shiggy

 

[Smokeater]

Sorry if I came off as a buzz kill, Smokie. I just get frustrated when someone like yourself needs medication that isn't covered by insurance. You'll get a ton of help here. Shiggy's dirt recs are good. You can do the peat moss and perlite for about half what Sunshine Mix or Pro Mix will cost. If you do peat and perlite you'll also need to buffer the soil, but that is easy and inexpensive.

I sent you PM.

PJ

PJ, No worries. I answered your PM and thank you VERY much! I understand your frustration (We live with it daily), But I got into that job to help others and not for the money. Unfortunately I got permanently hurt before hitting my 20 years and that means I have to wait until I'm 60 to roll over my retirement to get a bump up in pay (I'm 52 now). You guys here have all been great and I feel like I have friends here now. I can't ask for better advice than what you guys are giving me. I purchased some soil this morning that Shiggy told me was O.K. (after I purchased it) to use, I wanted to know before I used it. But I will keep that in mind for the next purchase down the road, Thank you for the advice.

Smokey

 

[ShiggityFlip]

What PeeJay said is correct though, if you can find even a small bag of perlite, it would do wonders for your oxygen at the root level which can be really important to plant health.

You have friends here for sure, and we all want you to be successful!

 

[Smokeater]

That two inch height is too close. If you were using compact fluorescent bulbs then 2'" would be ideal, but you are using LEDs. The LED lights have lots of little diodes with different colored lenses. The light needs to be high enough that the colors blend. I'd guess about 12" would be enough but any closer and the plant will freak out a bit from getting only one color here and one there, if you get my drift.

Did you keep your receipt for the Jiffy Mix? It isn't the best choice. Peat Moss costs about $12.00 for a 3 cubic foot bale and there are 7 gallons of soil in a cubic foot. You would need to mix in 1 part perlite to 3.5 parts peat. A Cubic foot of perlite would be about another $10 but you'd have ~ 28 gallons of soil compared to the 3 gallons of Jiffy Mix you have now and I think you would have better results.

As an osmocote alternative you could order 5lbs of Soil Mender Yum Yum mix for $21.00. It is a great mineralized organic soil amendment. BAR grows in a mix of Peet, Pertlite and Yum-Yum with great results. He also saves his eggshells, toasts them under the broiler and then grinds 'em up and adds them to the soil mix which takes care of the buffering. That is an extremely thrifty high performance soil mix for cannabis. All you need to do is water the plants and they rock.

I'm not saying that the Jiffy seedling mix won't work - I haven't seen anyone grow in it. I have, however, seen folks try the Miracle Grow seedling mix and it was not so good. My guess is that because it's a seed starting mix it isn't very well aerated and will compact to a point over the plant's lifespan that it will cause problems.

For osmocote you would also want to mix perlite and peat at the same ratio listed above. Ground up toasted eggshells or inexpensive garden lime would provide the pH buffering you need. I have seen some really nice plants grown with osmocote in a peat base.

Yes, I have the receipt, but the problem I see is that we don't have much gardening supplies here (smaller town, only 60,000 people) and I will search around to look for the stuff you recommended, but I'm not sure I can find it around here. I will check with Home Depot, but don't have high hopes for them carrying much in winter and those are the only local gardening places here and driving long distances is out for me too because of my back. I have (among a couple other problems I got when I got hurt) herniated discs in my lower back and it limits me to about a 20-25 minute drive. In the summer I won't have a problem finding gardening supplies, but now ours are shut down for the most part. I will lower the plants back down a ways and use a pipe cleaner with a loose loop of thread around the stalk and pipe cleaner to support them.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Yes, I have the receipt, but the problem I see is that we don't have much gardening supplies here (smaller town, only 60,000 people) and I will search around to look for the stuff you recommended, but I'm not sure I can find it around here. I will check with Home Depot, but don't have high hopes for them carrying much in winter and those are the only local gardening places here and driving long distances is out for me too because of my back. I have (among a couple other problems I got when I got hurt) herniated discs in my lower back and it limits me to about a 20-25 minute drive. In the summer I won't have a problem finding gardening supplies, but now ours are shut down for the most part.

At the Homie de POT you can find perlite on the shelf in the outdoor section. I feel for ya brother, a hurt back can bring any man (or woman) down to size quick. And its no small issue that when I have taken opiates in the past they always made my back hurt when they wore off.

 

[Smokeater]

At the Homie de POT you can find perlite on the shelf in the outdoor section. I feel for ya brother, a hurt back can bring any man (or woman) down to size quick. And its no small issue that when I have taken opiates in the past they always made my back hurt when they wore off.

The next time we go out, I will check H.D. for the right mix, Thanks!

 

[Smokeater]

Just a quick update, I have lowered them to 8 inches (They were at 12 inches when they were doing the stretching) and have placed a very loose loop (could go around my thumb with slack left over) around them and a pipe cleaner. And as soon as my camera charges back up (That was why my son didn't like it and went with another version) I will try to post a couple new pics.

 

[arteekay]

What an awesome community we have here, truly inspirational. You've got some real pros on your side here smokeater, shigs and PeeJay are among the best there is at 420mag.

SO happy for ya!

 

[Smokeater]

What an awesome community we have here, truly inspirational. You've got some real pros on your side here smokeater, shigs and PeeJay are among the best there is at 420mag.

SO happy for ya!

I agree, Now I just wish I could convince my wife how great you guys are, I gave my info to someone from here for a special reason (1 of the most trusted I know from this board) in a private message and after asking my wife if she thought it was O.K. with it before I sent my info and after not getting a negative or even disapproving remark from her, She just said "it's up to you, if you trust this person". Now she is all pissed off at me for doing so after I told her I did it. Unfortunately, she is completely computer illiterate and I wouldn't be able to get her to even look at my computer to show her what I see in you guys. But I agree with you, The people here are so knowledgeable and willing to help I was really surprised at first. I thank all of you again for the advice, opinions and just encouraging remarks. You guys (Non-gender specific when I say that) are all great and have helped me immensely.