Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[CBDMed]

I actually bought something for long term storage which was a potassium chloride solution. I'm sure you could make your own if you have any of that on hand.

I don't, but if it is important, I could get some.
Is that cheaper than just getting more calibration salts?

When I started it was on 6.25. Then it was 6.3. Now 6.4.
I am not sure if that is the electrode adjusting to moisture, or if that is the mix affecting the pH of the deminieralized water.

I think to check it again in a couple of hours, to see if it keep climbing.

 

[InTheShed]

A slurry test is done after an hour of the mud soaking and stirring.

 

[CBDMed]

Great to know! I started it on to soak with demineralized water about an hour and ten minutes ago.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Subject:Re: Is the Colombia Roots Organic Soil formula exactly the same as the US formula?

Simply put. This soil is the same soil we make in Eugene Oregon and it is imported. It is the exact same recipe. We do not out NPK values on our soil as we keep it proprietary.

The labels are different as the Colombian government required us to make separate labels for the product. I’m not sure why the ph is listed lower. I believe tech industries asked us to put that on there, but I’m not sure. I would follow what our website says.

Well, dude didn't answer all your questions. Consider this scenario: Aurora sends big bags of the product to Colombia; Tech Industries fills the retail bags that have the Spanish label. Nothing in dude's response negates this possibility. In my mind, I see Tech Industries as trying to make a profit selling an imported U.S. product, and they are absorbing some or all of the shipping cost, which must be substantial.

RE: "Colombian government required us to make separate labels"

The govt may require that certain things be listed that aren't listed on the U.S. label, but it appears this Spanish label is completely different than the U.S. one. Why would they remove the ingredient list? Doesn't make sense. I'm guessing Tech Industries had a hand in designing the Spanish label. Why did they change it so much, and remove the ingredient list?

RE: "We do not out NPK values..."

If they have good NPK values, they are going to advertise that because it's good marketing. If they have poor NPK values, that would be a reason to conceal them. Another reason not to list NPK values is that it allows them to make changes in their recipe to accommodate differences in ingredient availability/quality.

RE: "I'm not sure why the pH is listed lower. I believe Tech Industries asked us to put that on there..."

My guess is that the Colombian govt. requires pH to be shown on soil bags. All the analysis numbers on the Spanish bag, pH included, came from a lab that did the testing. Who ordered the testing done? Aurora doesn't reveal that. So, this probably means Tech Industries ordered the testing. I don't believe this director of sales and marketing... that he doesn't know why the Spanish label says pH 5.13. I think Tech Industries probably designed the Spanish label. And then the big question is... why did their soil test come back pH 5.13? And the ingredient list is gone? Very suspicious.

*****

If I were you, I'd look into the Confiabonos some more. Have the soil tested for NPK, pH, and sodium. A heavy metals test would be good, too.

 

[CBDMed]

CBD, great hits!
I'm going to have to go soon, and hope to be back tomorrow night.
You list all valid points. I can see what you are saying. He could be trying to wriggle out (pH 5.13 and no ingredients list makes NO sense.)
Only, dude referred me to their website. The Colombian website says this:
It says:
**

Roots Organics Organic Substrate 40 liters​

$ 115,000

Roots Organics Original substrate is made with the best quality materials. It is a ready-to-use mix created with a balanced air-to-water ratio of porosity and water retention.
Achieve an efficient diet for your plants, taking advantage of the nutrients of the substrate and fertilizers!
This coco-based substrate contains Aurora Innovations' own peat, pumice and perlite. The perlite and coir base allows for quick drainage and drying, for frequent feeding of large, fast-growing plants.
For exceptional results, we recommend using high-quality nutrients, such as the Roots Organics line of fertilizers.
Benefits:
• 100% Organic.
• High content of beneficial bacteria and fungi .
• Drainage and fast drying .
• Increases the biomass of the roots .
• Professional proportion between air and water to allow maximum aeration .
• I ncludes nutrients for the first 2-3 weeks of cultivation .
• Ideal for high performance plants and continuous feeding.
Crops: Medicinal Cannabis, coffee, fruit trees, vegetables, vegetables, aromatic, ornamental, flowers and more.
How to use: Ideal for cultivation in trays, pots or beds. Fill to completely cover the roots of the plant and press around the stem to firm the surface. Use a light fertilizer mix for the first few days.
Ingredients: Perlite, Coco Coir, Peat, Composite Forest Material, Pumice, Worm Casting, Bat Guano, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Herringbone Meal, Seaweed Meal, and Green Sand. Also contains beneficial mycorrhizal fungi: Funneliformis mosseae, Rhizophagus intraradices, Septoglomus desertícola to improve plant nutrient uptake, increase root biomass and help container grown plants resist stress.
Certifications: ICA Registered and California Organic CDFA Certified.

**

I am interested to hear your comments, and hope to be back in a day.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ingredients: Perlite, Coco Coir, Peat, Composite Forest Material, Pumice, Worm Casting, Bat Guano, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Herringbone Meal, Seaweed Meal, and Green Sand. Also contains beneficial mycorrhizal fungi: Funneliformis mosseae, Rhizophagus intraradices, Septoglomus desertícola to improve plant nutrient uptake, increase root biomass and help container grown plants resist stress.

So it says on their website, but why removed from the bag label? Why is the Spanish label so different from the U.S. label? If it's the same product, I would expect to see an English to Spanish translation of the U.S. label – that's not the case, correct? And the removal of the ingredient list, and the suspicious pH number.

Besides, it's just too expensive at $115,000 a bag.

 

[Azimuth]

Because what is shipped from the US is more than likely cut with other things in-country so they don't want to show what's now in the bag, but they also can't claim it is the original mix.

So while it's true that it's the same mix from the original factory as dude said, it is not the same thing on the back end. Otherwise they would use it as a marketing advantage.

I agree that if it sounds fishy, it likely is.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I'm just looking at the facts and drawing some possible/likely conclusions. Yes, overall it seems fishy.

 

[cbdhemp808]

If I were you, I'd look into the Confiabonos some more. Have the soil tested for NPK, pH, and sodium. A heavy metals test would be good, too.

I was thinking a bit more about this... dunno if you really need an NPK test, but still thinking the other tests would be good.



Confiabonos ingredients:

"the premium substrate is composed of vermiculite, coconut substrate, perlite, zeolite, earthworm humus, guano, Canadian peat, diatomaceous earth and trichoderma."

From the Confiabonos analysis that you received from them, they didn't show any N or P. They showed "6.1" K, but didn't give any unit of measurement on that. Is it 6% K? If so, that's super high for a soil like this. In contrast, Roots Organics Lush that I checked out had 0.5% K – that was the highest of the commercial soils I looked at. If the unit of measure of K was cmol+/kg, which we dealt with before, with your soil test results... converting to ppm... 6.1 x 390 = 2,379 ppm. That's way too high... couldn't be. That leaves mg/kg, which is the same as ppm... that would be 6.1 ppm... very small amount of K. (I could comment on the Ca and Mg values in the analysis, but it would be a good idea to first contact Confiabonos and ask: 1- what type of guano and what's its NPK, 2 - what are the units of measurement of the K, Ca, and Mg.)

They don't specify what type of guano (bat or seabird), but I'm going to guess bat, because if they used seabird, there's a lot of P in seabird, and they don't show any P in the analysis. Fyi, both types of seabird guano – White (harvested) and Red (fossil sediment) – contain high amounts of P.

Assuming bat guano, that would be the only significant source of N, and they left N out of the analysis, which I'm guessing means there's an insignificant amount of N. Ditto for P. Given that bat guano is usually considered to have more N than P and K, and more P than K, it's odd that they only list K in the analysis. This could mean there's a very small amount of bat guano in the mix. Worm castings are not known to contain much NPK, but perhaps "earthworm humus" (aka vermicompost) could be contributing some K.

I could be wrong about all this, but it would be to their advantage to list N and P, but they don't... just K, Ca, and Mg.

Without knowing any other hard evidence, I'd say it's probably a good base mix for you, but doesn't contain much NPK, and probably fairly light on the micro-nutrients as well.

 

[CBDMed]

Besides, it's just too expensive at $115,000 a bag.

Hahahaha, too funny!!

I wrote Tech Industries here in Colombia.

Dear Sirs,
I bought a bag of your Roots Organic soil mix.
I'm curious why the bag says the pH is 5.13.
Also, is there any specific analysis or technical analysis?
Thank you so much.

They answered:

Good afternoon,
The data you see on the packaging is the guaranteed analysis carried out by the ICA for the registration of the products, that pH is obtained by dissolving the substrate in water at 10%, it is an unreal measure in the use of the product but necessary for the ICA. Attached technical sheet of the substrate, any questions we remain attentive. Thank you.
Cordially,

The technical sheet does not say too much. It looks like a re-presentation of the same web page information, just in a slightly different format.

Tech Industries indicates that they will answer questions... so what questions should I ask them?

 

[CBDMed]

I put a bag of Confiabonos Premium on the shopping list.
If it is important, I guess I can have both Confiabonos and Roots Organic tested. By the time you get done with everything, it costs about $50 for each test, or $100 for both.
The budget is not unlimited, but it could be good to know exactly what is in the bag.
It might also be helpful when reconditioning the soil, so we know what we have to bring it back up to.

Only, if it claims to be a coco-based product, is it re-usable?
Or does the pH buffering wear off?

 

[cbdhemp808]

Tech Industries indicates that they will answer questions... so what questions should I ask them?

It's up to you my friend. I vote Confiabonos at this point. This is my input... HERE.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Only, if it claims to be a coco-based product, is it re-usable?
Or does the pH buffering wear off?

When you recycle soil, you'll be adding nutrients... so just include a calcium source, such as dolomite lime.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey CBD.
I am a little turned around, I am trying to get things straightened out.
Let me drop back to your earlier letter.

I was thinking a bit more about this... dunno if you really need an NPK test, but still thinking the other tests would be good.

Ok, great to know! Thanks!
Only, I think my only option is if I want the soil analysis, or don't want the soil analysis.
It is basically binary (all or nothing).
Welcome to Colombia hahahahahaha!

Confiabonos ingredients:

"the premium substrate is composed of vermiculite, coconut substrate, perlite, zeolite, earthworm humus, guano, Canadian peat, diatomaceous earth and trichoderma."

From the Confiabonos analysis that you received from them, they didn't show any N or P.

Right. (Bummer.)

They showed "6.1" K, but didn't give any unit of measurement on that. Is it 6% K? If so, that's super high for a soil like this. In contrast, Roots Organics Lush that I checked out had 0.5% K – that was the highest of the commercial soils I looked at. If the unit of measure of K was cmol+/kg, which we dealt with before, with your soil test results... converting to ppm... 6.1 x 390 = 2,379 ppm. That's way too high... couldn't be. That leaves mg/kg, which is the same as ppm... that would be 6.1 ppm... very small amount of K. (I could comment on the Ca and Mg values in the analysis, but it would be a good idea to first contact Confiabonos and ask: 1- what type of guano and what's its NPK, 2 - what are the units of measurement of the K, Ca, and Mg.)

CBD, man, that must be some good stuff you growing over there! What is your fertilizer formula again? Hahahaha!
Man, you went wayyyy over me head, mon! Lol!
Like, "What?!?!" Hahahaha!
Ok I can tell you did math, and neither option is acceptable.
I don't hold high hopes for getting either detailed or reliable answers from Confiabonos FaceBook Messenger Tech Chat (which is the only option).
It would cost a little, but if it is a concern the thing to do would be to send in a sample, and just pay the $50.
$50 twice sounds like a lot to me (and I am swallowing it with help). But I spent a lot more than $100 on remedies for this last batch of Saltcool's Sodiumsoil, so given the situation, testing is not out of the question.

They don't specify what type of guano (bat or seabird), but I'm going to guess bat, because if they used seabird, there's a lot of P in seabird, and they don't show any P in the analysis. Fyi, both types of seabird guano – White (harvested) and Red (fossil sediment) – contain high amounts of P.

Ok, great to know!
When not specified, I would guess the cheaper of the two.

Assuming bat guano, that would be the only significant source of N, and they left N out of the analysis, which I'm guessing means there's an insignificant amount of N. Ditto for P. Given that bat guano is usually considered to have more N than P and K, and more P than K, it's odd that they only list K in the analysis. This could mean there's a very small amount of bat guano in the mix. Worm castings are not known to contain much NPK, but perhaps "earthworm humus" (aka vermicompost) could be contributing some K.

Yeah, I am guessing that Confiabonos Biogreen Premium is going to be what I THOUGHT I was getting from Bendita Sea, which is just a good basic nothing-fancy substrate for adding other ferts and such to.
I can try to ask questions on Facebook Messenger Tech Industries chat, but I would not rely on the answers.
I don't like the expense, but I am not against testing each soil, just to see what we got.
Cuz it is nice to grow it inside the house. The whole house smells great!

I could be wrong about all this, but it would be to their advantage to list N and P, but they don't... just K, Ca, and Mg.

Yeah, I wouldn't put a lot of credence in anything they publish.
What is that saying? Don't believe everything you hear, and only half of what you read?
I wonder if this part might belong to the other half, if you know what I am saying.
Kind of like Tech Industries saying that the pH 5.13 is a stray value that the California organic people came up with in their non-standard test. (I lived in California for a few years, and I can believe that. Some people feel that some of their regulations and tests sound great in theory, but occasionally cause more trouble than they solve.)

Without knowing any other hard evidence, I'd say it's probably a good base mix for you, but doesn't contain much NPK, and probably fairly light on the micro-nutrients as well.

I am totally open to it.
Only, a few posts back (I would have to look for it), I said that Roots looked like the best option I had, and I thought you agreed, so I put the soil on the list, and they ordered it already.
In fact I had them get some extra bags, so I can do some autos and pre-load them with GeoFlora, and top-dress with GeoFlora while we are waiting for the supersoil to cook.
(It should be fun to try a new technique.)

I appreciate all of your help, CBD! Only, I am kind of limited in my options.
We are going to use the university soil lab instead of the soil lab in Medellín, but I am sure it is similar.
I did not mean to jump the gun, but things tend to stagnate around here if you let 'em, so I am always pushing just a little bit to git' 'er done.

I hope I am understanding what you are saying, and that I am acting appropriately.
Your math examples went way over my head, so I am not 100% sure I am extracting the appropriate lessons here.

 

[CBDMed]

When you recycle soil, you'll be adding nutrients... so just include a calcium source, such as dolomite lime.

Ok, great to know. Thank you!

 

[InTheShed]

Only, if it claims to be a coco-based product, is it re-usable?
Or does the pH buffering wear off?

Coco does not buffer pH at all (which is why it's considered hydro growing), and requires that nutrient water used be pH adjusted before watering (usually to ~5.8).

 

[cbdhemp808]

Only, I think my only option is if I want the soil analysis, or don't want the soil analysis.
It is basically binary (all or nothing).
Welcome to Colombia hahahahahaha!

I hear you. Our local university can do soil tests, and they have various options for testing.

That same soil test you got before should do the trick, if you are going to test either Confiabonos, Roots, or both (even though they didn't test for N).

Ok I can tell you did math, and neither option is acceptable.

I was just trying to break down what can be determined from the Confiabonos ingredient list and the analysis they sent you. Note there were a couple questions in there you could ask Confiabonos.

When not specified, I would guess the cheaper of the two.

It could be seabird guano... perhaps in South America they (sometimes) just call it guano.

I don't like the expense, but I am not against testing each soil, just to see what we got.

Yeah, that would be good.

I am totally open to it.
Only, a few posts back (I would have to look for it), I said that Roots looked like the best option I had, and I thought you agreed, so I put the soil on the list, and they ordered it already.

It's been confusing for sure. I said Roots Organics Original was probably one of the best potting soils for cannabis. Then I opened the little can of worms regarding the Spanish label, etc., and that left me feeling less confident about what's in the bag with the Spanish label.

We are going to use the university soil lab instead of the soil lab in Medellín, but I am sure it is similar.

Cool... see if the university has different soil tests available... then you can just choose the one(s) you want. NPK, pH, sodium, and micro-nutrients would be good. Possibly heavy metals too.

 

[CBDMed]

Coco does not buffer pH at all (which is why it's considered hydro growing), and requires that nutrient water used be pH adjusted before watering (usually to ~5.8).

Ok, thanks, Shed! Good to know!
When it comes time to recondition the soil I will try to add Dolomite Lime (or some other calcium source), like CBD suggested.
I am looking at some pages of how to recondition Subcool's.
(I would have to order some meals and things in from the States, but that's probably no different than paying for Aurora Innovations to put the meals in the premium bag in the first place...)

And then I test for pH both before the cook, and after the cook?

 

[CBDMed]

I hear you. Our local university can do soil tests, and they have various options for testing.

That same soil test you got before should do the trick, if you are going to test either Confiabonos, Roots, or both (even though they didn't test for N).

Yeah, ok.
I am not sure what options they will give me, but I will probably check all of them (hahaha!).
Then we *may know what we have.

I was just trying to break down what can be determined from the Confiabonos ingredient list and the analysis they sent you. Note there were a couple questions in there you could ask Confiabonos.

Yeah, I saw those. I am hoping to write them today. I just want to make sure I ask just the right words to see if there has been a switch-up on the bags, or cutting soil, or what.
And a lotta meetings today, mon.

It could be seabird guano... perhaps in South America they (sometimes) just call it guano.

Yeah, they tend to try to make things as simple as possible.
Sometimes they make things too simple.
I am just imagining that someone went to add Epsom Salts to my Bendita Sea canna mix, and they did not have any Epsom Salts, so they just said, "Duh... hey!! Salt is salt, right????"
The only other option I can think of is maybe industrial sabotage??? And I don't want to go there.
(Was it Napoleon or Hanlon who said, "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"?)

Yeah, that would be good.


It's been confusing for sure.

Yeah, it has!

I said Roots Organics Original was probably one of the best potting soils for cannabis. Then I opened the little can of worms regarding the Spanish label, etc., and that left me feeling less confident about what's in the bag with the Spanish label.

Yeah, I am meditating on what and how to ask him, to trip him up in case there has been a switch-up in the bags, or cutting of the product, or whatever. I want to ask it just right, and I have a lot of other things to do, so I might not be able to write him until tomorrow.

Cool... see if the university has different soil tests available... then you can just choose the one(s) you want. NPK, pH, sodium, and micro-nutrients would be good. Possibly heavy metals too.

Yeah, ok.
Probably this first time I will ask them to test for everything.
Then at least we will have some data points to compare to when we go to recondition the soil later.
I really love having at least something blooming inside, because it just makes the whole house smell so good!

 

[CBDMed]

I think I just want to ask Colombia Dude in a friendly way if it is bagged and labeled in the USA, or in Colombia.
If it is bagged and labeled at Aurora in Oregon USA, then I think we don't have too many worries.
But if they bag and label it here, then there are worries about being cut or substituted, etc.

And I think I should also ask him why the lack of NPK and technical data on the label.
He might respond that they put what the Colombian government required to be put on the label, which would be believable. (Sorry to say but I had to deal with Colombian government regs on some other things, and I could not accuse them of being overly streamlined or logical [same as California]. So a "stupid regs" excuse would be believable. Because people here buy on name-brand recognition. They are not big on reading fine print details, etc. Not trying to be mean, that is just how it is here. An incomplete bag label would not be a deal killer for most/many.)